Technicians: Illegal to Install *ware/Virus Removers?

jcw122 · Dec 12, 2005

I'm considering doing a small time job for people (one that is similar to babysitting or mowing a neighbor's lawn...just locals and cash type of hting), not anything like making my own company, but doing something where I do a service for people that includes removing spyware, viruses, malware, etc for people, mostly locals. Someone suggested to me that it is ILLEGAL to install programs to remove such things for someone else as a technician (?) , unless you have proper certification. As this is obviously a possible problem, I'd like to know if it's true. Thanks!

Xoligy · Dec 12, 2005

Well i dont know if thats actually true but i kinda see where there coming from it's like you buying one license for a program and using it on multiple computers you would need a business edition/extended liceses edition etc, etc but im not 100% sure!

The way that i can see you kind of slipping through a loop hole would be using a laptop and making a tempory network and not actually installing anything but running it through the network if you get my meaning.

Best thing to do is wait for more answers, search google and ask people in the same kind of industry. But also ask yourself this... "How many other people so this?" ALOT! Just be careful and best thing to do is before using a product on another persons computer is not just to ask for permission off the owner of the machine but get some sort of written permission off them and also the makers of the program to cover you back

jcw122 · Dec 12, 2005

Xoligy said:
Well i dont know if thats actually true but i kinda see where there coming from it's like you buying one license for a program and using it on multiple computers you would need a business edition/extended liceses edition etc, etc but im not 100% sure!

The way that i can see you kind of slipping through a loop hole would be using a laptop and making a tempory network and not actually installing anything but running it through the network if you get my meaning.

Best thing to do is wait for more answers, search google and ask people in the same kind of industry. But also ask yourself this... "How many other people so this?" ALOT! Just be careful and best thing to do is before using a product on another persons computer is not just to ask for permission off the owner of the machine but get some sort of written permission off them and also the makers of the program to cover you back

Thanks for the advice there Xoligy, and yeah, now I wonder if this friend of mine was talking about using the program over and over, cause I was thinking of using Free removers til I get some $$$.

Xoligy · Dec 12, 2005

No problem if your going to do it do as i say get permission in writing it always helps and emails from the makers of the program so if something did go wrong or someone said you carn't do that you can easily back yourself up saying i have the permission to etc, etc but i carn't see a problem personally apart from maybe if somone said "how can you charge me when yur using "Free" software" lol

Make a list of the programs you plan on using, contact the companies of the programs and tell them what you would like to do and be cheeky and see if they will offer a discount if you provide evidence that your doing as you say or see if they would be willing to make one with a set amount of uses and provide something in writing saying you have permison sorry for repeating myself again

i need sleep!

Edit: going for a nap but i'll keep my eye on the thread see what other info comes up

tenchi86 · Dec 12, 2005

It is not illegal to modify someones computer data as long as they give you confirmed persmission first I believe. (Like get them to sign something) The problem I see for you is charging. You would need a small busniess liscense I think if you were to charge. I am sure you could easily do it under the table as I am sure a lot of us here have done. Though to be perfectly legal I think you need a liscence.

Edit: As for the utilities though the companies may not enjoy it, you would be using them for home use. So I think you would be ok there, I mean it's not like you will be doing hundreds of computers with Ad-ware free will you?

-maddog- · Dec 12, 2005

I think no problems if you just do it for your friends, but once you get bigger you may get into trouble.

ghettocomp · Dec 12, 2005

If you are installing the free Adware/spyware removal programs I am sure it is not \
illegal.. as long as it is installed with the customers name and permission. Then you
are not actually doing anything other than installing software FOR the customer to
provide a service they didnt want to do themselves or didnt know how to do..

The idea is 'Provide a service'

jcw122 · Dec 12, 2005

Well I did find something out guys, this may be partially true.
The trick: the EULA...most EULAs are for SINGLE users only, not multiple users...because if I DLed and installed the software...I'd be the one agreeing to the EULA, and the customer would be the "2nd end user"...which is not legal to do.

There was some guy who did this a few years back, w/ 30 some programs...and when the 2nd end user (customer) called up ZA for tech support, he got sued by ZA.

I guess what I will be doing is e-mailing the companies, or writing.

Know Nuttin · Dec 12, 2005

It shouldn't be legal, because you are making money off of it. If you did it for free, then it wouldn't be a problem. The key words here are for "personal use", which means it's free as long as you don't charge for what you intend to use it for. You would need a business version and a license for it.

jcw122 · Dec 12, 2005

Know Nuttin said:
It shouldn't be legal, because you are making money off of it. If you did it for free, then it wouldn't be a problem. The key words here are for "personal use", which means it's free as long as you don't charge for what you intend to use it for. You would need a business version and a license for it.

Mmm now I get it, thanks for that clarification Know Nuttin.

This will be a job similar to mowing a neighbor's lawn, or babysitting, it's just plain cash, so I wonder if that still counts (prolly does).

su root · Dec 12, 2005

For permission to install programs:
If you have the user's permission, you can install any program they agree to, or do anything to their computer that they agree to.

For installing specific applications:
Check the EULA, if it says for personal use only, that limits businesses from using it -- that doesn't stop a consultant from downloading it and installing it onto a home user for their personal use only. If it says you can't distribute it, then each place you install it, download it from the website directly. If it's for single use only, it usually means that only one person is allowed to use the software at the same time.. if it's free software, this is almost meaningless, if it's purchased software, it means they're licensing YOU to use the software.. no-one else (unless you sell the license to someone else).

For licensing:
In most cases, when you purchase the software, you own one license. You may use this on only one computer at a time.. if you transfer it around to different computers, you must uninstall it from the previous computer first.. so unless the EULA says otherwise, you can install purchased software, do a scan with your license key, and uninstall it.

For removing spyware:
I heard a few things about it being illegal to decompile spyware for the purposes of uninstallation under the DMCA, but that's something that they'd go after the anti-spyware companies for, who are actually doing the reverse engineering.

As for the guy who phoned up ZA, he probably had a pirated copy of ZA, left by a tech on their computer... as long as you don't leave any of the programs you own behind, then you are fine. Install some free alternatives for them to use.

jcw122 · Dec 12, 2005

su root said:
For permission to install programs:
If you have the user's permission, you can install any program they agree to, or do anything to their computer that they agree to.

For installing specific applications:
Check the EULA, if it says for personal use only, that limits businesses from using it -- that doesn't stop a consultant from downloading it and installing it onto a home user for their personal use only. If it says you can't distribute it, then each place you install it, download it from the website directly. If it's for single use only, it usually means that only one person is allowed to use the software at the same time.. if it's free software, this is almost meaningless, if it's purchased software, it means they're licensing YOU to use the software.. no-one else (unless you sell the license to someone else).

For licensing:
In most cases, when you purchase the software, you own one license. You may use this on only one computer at a time.. if you transfer it around to different computers, you must uninstall it from the previous computer first.. so unless the EULA says otherwise, you can install purchased software, do a scan with your license key, and uninstall it.

For removing spyware:
I heard a few things about it being illegal to decompile spyware for the purposes of uninstallation under the DMCA, but that's something that they'd go after the anti-spyware companies for, who are actually doing the reverse engineering.

As for the guy who phoned up ZA, he probably had a pirated copy of ZA, left by a tech on their computer... as long as you don't leave any of the programs you own behind, then you are fine. Install some free alternatives for them to use.

Wow what a reply. Thanks very much, su root. That helped a bunch.

Even though I see this as trusted info, I'm probably gonna email the individual companies myself, just to double check and what not.

Thanks again!

su root · Dec 12, 2005

In cases of free softare, you can usually safely ignore most of the EULA, it's meant to stop abuse. The idea behind most of it is either for distribution purposes (so people don't start up their own website, and start distributing copies of the software, taking all the attention away from the real site), or for stats purposes. Limitations are added to stop businesses from abusing the free software by selling it, or things like that.

When you purchase software, it's usually for your own personal use, so there are limits added to that extent. They don't want you using your licensed software on other people's machines, but if you stay within the license agreement (which generally means "don't make a business out of it, and don't pirate it"), then you are fine.

AMD Phreak · Dec 12, 2005

Pay attention to the EULA for its intended use. Some things can be used for Non-Profits free, while using it at corporate levels requires pay-for-play. Example is Belarc Advisor. When I ran my business we did a security audit for a doctors office. The last place we did one was a non-profit organization so we could use Belarc. This was a regular business so Belarc could not be used free as per the EULA, so we were required to use something different (nmap+nessus+sandra for those interested). If you are dealing with users, anything that says "for home use only" means "dont install this at a business". I will install AVG Free for home customers, but for biz customers I require they purchase something from Sophos, Trend, or any of the others. The same goes for things like AdAwareSE and similar programs.

Rabid_Llama8 · Dec 14, 2005

Something you might want to think about is bootable OSes. Think Knoppix with virus removal software instead of network pilfering software (like Auditor is). Or even better for doing a business, try to find a copy (legally) of the Windows XP Preinstallation kit. This allows you to build a bootable version of Windows XP including as many programs as you can fit onto a CD image. I've personally used a version of Windows PE paired up with FreeAV, a free version of Nod32 GUI, a free version of Macafee, and a few others. A great advantage is using a set of 3 or 4 programs while not booting from the hard drive gives you the opportunity to detect any viruses that may attach themselves to system processes, or scan without the risk of them infecting other files. Kinda like killing a bear while he sleeps instead of attacks.

Crash893 · Dec 14, 2005

jcw122 said:
I'm considering doing a small time job for people (one that is similar to babysitting or mowing a neighbor's lawn...just locals and cash type of hting), not anything like making my own company, but doing something where I do a service for people that includes removing spyware, viruses, malware, etc for people, mostly locals. Someone suggested to me that it is ILLEGAL to install programs to remove such things for someone else as a technician (?) , unless you have proper certification. As this is obviously a possible problem, I'd like to know if it's true. Thanks!

I'm going to call BS

for a few reasons

1) who would check up on you for the "proper certification" i don't think there is a spyware director general or anything like that
2) if its a small off the books business its not a business so you don't need a business licences
3) you would only need a business licence if you were installing it on many of your own machines. if you install lets say AD-adware for a person for their personal use then its just that

i say go for it. the world needs less spyware

the only problem i can think you could possibly run into is

you go to work on some ones computer and it just blows up and the user says you did it. or you delete something and it all goes south
then you might have trouble

but i think if you made a little certificate that said your not responsible for data loss and had them sign it then you should be alright.

ƒÓÒl · Dec 14, 2005

I do a service fairly close to what you wanna do, though I don't often take money for it. Friends of friends mostly. Sometimes the person will slip a $20 into my jacket pocket though when I'm not looking.

Anyway, what I do is use the person's own computer to download the free softwares. It's their version on their computer, and I in no way provided the copy for money.
If I'm paid, it's for the work of doing what they couldn't, software maker's still enjoy all their rights, and everybody's happy.
It takes more time though, but since you plan on charging for that time, win win, ya know?

don256us · Dec 14, 2005

Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.

jcw122 · Dec 14, 2005

Crash893 said:
I'm going to call BS

for a few reasons

1) who would check up on you for the "proper certification" i don't think there is a spyware director general or anything like that
2) if its a small off the books business its not a business so you don't need a business licences
3) you would only need a business licence if you were installing it on many of your own machines. if you install lets say AD-adware for a person for their personal use then its just that

i say go for it. the world needs less spyware

the only problem i can think you could possibly run into is

you go to work on some ones computer and it just blows up and the user says you did it. or you delete something and it all goes south
then you might have trouble

but i think if you made a little certificate that said your not responsible for data loss and had them sign it then you should be alright.

THanks Crash, as I was researching this earlier, I'd say I have to agree with our points, I also read the entire EULA for Adaware (Free), and found nothing about single user only type things, or anything that would be a hinder to me.

Thanks for the disclaimer suggestion also, I will be definately using that. Much appreciated.

don256us said:
Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.

Thanks don, and yeah I'm not charging for the software, I'll obviously be charging for getting all the crap off their computer, and for my time.

ghettocomp · Dec 14, 2005

don256us said:
Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.

just like I said in a previous post

The Key here is : you are PROVIDING A SERVICE. Just make sure it is well understood that you are not selling the software, and nearly everytime, there are exceptions, make sure it is downloaded from the software providers site with the customers name.

Now for the bonus /notice:cup is still half full /end notice
Some states do not require a service to have a business license or to charge for tax if there is no real store front or goods sold (meaning retail hardware, licensed software cd's, etc.. you get the idea) A couple of incidentals here and there with NO INVENTORY on your part is ok. Again the key is PROVIDE A SERVICE.
As for the part of the half empty cup, make absolutely sure that Caesar gets his share, (about 10% is fair) his cronies are PITA SOBs to deal with if they decide you owe. I know, been dere, don dat.

Technicians: Illegal to Install *ware/Virus Removers?

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