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So, apparently P45 boards (Nehalems) will be difficult to OC?

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Neural Net

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Joined
Jul 3, 2006
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UK
I've just read this article over at bit-tech.net and some interesting points were raised. Here's the article:

After spending time today talking in depth to a couple of MSI's P45 engineers and considerably more to Tony Leach from OCZ Technology, who spends a lot of time QAing BIOSes for companies like Asus, DFI and MSI, it looks like overclocking is going to become an increasingly more complicated art with the release of Intel's P45 chipset, as it mirrors many of the tweaks the current high-end X48 chipset offers.

If you want to buy and overclock on an Intel P45 board, Leach believes that you must learn how to use:

* GTL Reference Voltages
* CPU VTT and its relation to GTLs
* Clock Skews
* CPU PLL Voltages

This is because we’ve reached such a stage with the front side bus that the frequencies are getting easily out of sync. You can’t just throw voltage at things any more – that will only get you so far.

It’s a case of spending a lot of time increasing the CPU VTT (not over 1.35V – you’ll kill the CPU) and CPU PLL (not over 1.7V, because again you'll kill your CPU) and tweaking the GTL Reference voltages for the CPU and North bridge to be around 61-63 percent of VTT for 45nm CPUs and 67 percent for 65nm.

This is particularly noteworthy with quad-core processors because, if you’re finding core two and three drop off under Prime95 load, it’s down to the fact that the two CPU dies are not identical and while core one and four can hit the FSB you’ve set, cores two and three are having trouble. Tweaking the GTL can sometimes give them better stability.

Leach even went as far as to say you’ve got to find points on the board and check the actual voltages with a multimeter, because we’re talking some extremely minute changes and if there are elements of vDrop from the board or vDroop when the CPU loads the BIOS can be inaccurate.

Next you HAVE to play with the clock skews – MSI will have these on its P45 boards, Asus has them on its current X38 and X48 boards, while both DFI and Gigabyte also have them on their X48 boards. Basically as the data has to jump from the front side bus domain to the memory domain this window becomes smaller and prone to more jitter, the faster you increase either the front side bus or memory frequencies and timings. By adjusting the skew you can realign these clock signals and suddenly stability should return again – a good board will have less jitter in its signal generation and finer skew adjustments than one that's not as good.

The kicker that this is a completely blind art – you’ve quite literally got to sit there for hours and tweak the nuts off the board trying combinations of GTL and Skew settings until you find something that works. To make matters worse as soon as you change the front side bus, memory timings, the CPU (no two CPUs are identical, even if you buy a “Q6600 G0”), the memory sticks (there are different tolerances between batches of the same product, never mind different products!), update the BIOS, or even if you’re using the same board as someone else there’s no guarantee that one set of settings will work on another board.

So there you have it, prepare to invest in some serious time if you’re upgrading, or wait and see what happens when everything gets integrated on the CPU with Nehalem because AMD doesn’t have this problem. However word is on the net that Intel will lock overclocking out of every Nehalem CPU apart from the most expensive Bloomfield options, basically screwing over all us value-enthusiasts. With this in mind, is there even any point in review sites “reviewing” overclocking any more, since it's unlikely that the end user will be able to replicate it because of equipment diversity?

So what do you guys think? Sorry if this is old news, but it's interesting that so much more work could be involved in overclocking these chipsets, or do you think the problems are overestimated? Could people with the X38 boards mention their experiences with some of the features mentioned?
 
P45 is 775, not nehalem.

X58 is nehalem bloomsfield lga 1366.

I needed fsb termination overvolt on my x38 to underclock lol
 
Nothing new, we had this fun waay back on the DFI NF3/NF4 boards, but with four cores in play yes it will get even more interesting. I'm waiting for someone to write an app that can do the work for us.
 
I think those settings matter when you're trying to push the edge or squeeze everything out of an oc. Lots of people get perfectly good oc's only tweaking a few things.
 
The same applies to todays OCing especially if you want to squeeze the most out of your system, all of what is mentioned applies to current board and CPU technology.
 
So why has overclocking suddenly become more complicated? On my 965P-DS3 there were options for memory timings, memory/CPU voltage, Ram ratio and FSB speed and that's about it...
 
ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe: An Early Preview of P45 Express Performance - http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3309

Decent article done by the guys over at Anandtech. It's an early version of the board so results may not be as good as when it hits retail, but they don't seem to overclock that much better than current P35 boards. They also have the new southbridge chipset that the X48 uses (I think) and that will increase the price, but unfortunately it doesn't give much of a performance boost if any at all.
 
ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe: An Early Preview of P45 Express Performance - http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3309

Decent article done by the guys over at Anandtech. It's an early version of the board so results may not be as good as when it hits retail, but they don't seem to overclock that much better than current P35 boards. They also have the new southbridge chipset that the X48 uses (I think) and that will increase the price, but unfortunately it doesn't give much of a performance boost if any at all.

Thanks that's a really interesting article, reading through it now. :)
 
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