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Enablingwolf

Enablingwolf

Senior Member overclocking at t
​
Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Ok here's the deal I am facing. Then I ask of others what they would do.

My father in law has an old Compaq 1.3Ghz/512 RAMBUS (Windows ME era machine) that is rather outdated. I believe it can be brought up to speed with a nice copy of Ubuntu and some setting up on my part.

As of now, he still uses Me as much as it pains knowing this. I still try and help him as much as I can. Not bieng a fanbio or do the buy all new shuffle. Just remind him.. Dude your hardware is old and the OS is long dead.

Well he is realizing that with no flash, java and driver support. He needs to finally move on. I have a few options to give him. All this will be done OH to PA. So no local easy way out of it.

Since this section is alt OS. We know I am going after Linux. Since he is a total n00b of sorts. I thought Ubuntu.

I would install it and get the basics going. Letting him fill in the account info and do the final driver stuff. Ubuntu has that nifty video driver thing. So I am not worried about all that. Installing some good apps for him. Getting the web stuff going basically. Pretty much get it ready for him. Then ship the drive where he can just swap the Windows drive out and install the Linux drive. Ubuntu migrates well in my experince.

Should I just let him buy a new machine? Is Linux a good pick for a 67 year old who just wants a computer that works and is super easy? I am partial to command line. So new Linux users please chime in. Old timers your welcome to and please offer any insight if you could. I been using Linux long enough, where the new smell is long gone and lost some of that edge of knowing the hardships a new user will face.
 
Here is what you will run into... while hardy is a big improvement there are sometimes unexplained problems... case in point is my fiance

sounds like her use is a lot like your Fatherinlaw. Word processing internet... super tux ;-P etc.
For the most part its fantastic for her. I switched her over about 5 months ago. But every once in a while she will run into wierd things such as:

normally you just plug in the digi cam and away you go but I get a phone call at 10pm tonight because linux is saying that it has to delete 22 of the new files on the camera before she can upload the pics to the pc (and of course those are the ones she wants to upload to walmart... which leads me to another small thing with linux... certain java apps either dont work properly or dont display picture thumbnails at all...). We live 20-30 minutes away which isnt bad but late night like that i cant just hop in the car and go fix it

Also sometimes will have some really odd occurances that a first timer gets confused at. For example sometimes ubuntu will boot (or mint or PCLOS, etc) and give you an error msg that says they couldnt load XXX program/file/icon (most common thing i have seen is the trash can)
For the more experienced users this is insidental and if you absolutely need whatever it is you probably just restart the X server. But for a newbie they think they broke something.

One final thought as just another example of wierdness that happens from time to time, she lives with some family still so they have a shared printer and I just havent gotten around to putting it as shared so the odd time she needs to print she just emails it to herself and prints on the local computer. Recently however, OpenOffice for her has started producing a few files that make the windows version of OO crash. I have confirmed that its the file as it makes 3 of my own windows clients crash but the file opens in Linux no problem

So be prepared... I am not as seasoned as a lot who read these boards but still these little things that dont occur to the "vets" until you get a phonecall/email/msn msg to "come fix my computer"

having said all that, I moved her to linux because she asked for something other then vista. She used vista 4 months and it drove her batty... I expect that if your relative gets a new computer you will have several discussions about vista (as thats what will most likely be installed on a new comp)
 
Stratus: all sounds pretty familiar.
Stratus_ss said:
Here is what you will run into... while hardy is a big improvement there are sometimes unexplained problems... case in point is my fiance

sounds like her use is a lot like your Fatherinlaw. Word processing internet... super tux ;-P etc.
For the most part its fantastic for her. I switched her over about 5 months ago. But every once in a while she will run into wierd things such as:

normally you just plug in the digi cam and away you go but I get a phone call at 10pm tonight because linux is saying that it has to delete 22 of the new files on the camera before she can upload the pics to the pc (and of course those are the ones she wants to upload to walmart... which leads me to another small thing with linux... certain java apps either dont work properly or dont display picture thumbnails at all...). We live 20-30 minutes away which isnt bad but late night like that i cant just hop in the car and go fix it

Also sometimes will have some really odd occurances that a first timer gets confused at. For example sometimes ubuntu will boot (or mint or PCLOS, etc) and give you an error msg that says they couldnt load XXX program/file/icon (most common thing i have seen is the trash can)
For the more experienced users this is insidental and if you absolutely need whatever it is you probably just restart the X server. But for a newbie they think they broke something.

One final thought as just another example of wierdness that happens from time to time, she lives with some family still so they have a shared printer and I just havent gotten around to putting it as shared so the odd time she needs to print she just emails it to herself and prints on the local computer. Recently however, OpenOffice for her has started producing a few files that make the windows version of OO crash. I have confirmed that its the file as it makes 3 of my own windows clients crash but the file opens in Linux no problem
Click to expand...
Heh.
Proposed Windows error dialog box said:
You are attempting to use godless, Communist open-source alternatives to Office, which is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. Stop immediately and assume the Thought Police Submission Position.
Click to expand...

So be prepared... I am not as seasoned as a lot who read these boards but still these little things that dont occur to the "vets" until you get a phonecall/email/msn msg to "come fix my computer"
Click to expand...

It's a drag. I would go out and buy him a little Macintosh, actually. :)
 
Captain Newbie said:
It's a drag. I would go out and buy him a little Macintosh, actually. :)
Click to expand...

Actually I talked to him just a little bit ago. I usually try and steer him towards Mac. I want him to get used to not calling everything Windows. Without cost to him. Once he figures out what is up. Then I remind him how refined Mac is compared to Linux.

One cool thing I found out. I won't be his only line of support. Gah, if he would only stop calling everything Windows.

For now, he has a copy of Ubuntu in the mail. He can run that for a bit. We can go from there.
 
Its a good choice, your phone support is more then enough.

I think the less tinkering someone does the less trouble they should cause.

All my problems I caused myself.:D

Its free...heck you can always spend the money on Apple later.

My wife and 11 year old have only had one question..."How do I get a DVD to play"? Answer...Go watch it on the TV upstairs.
 
Install Windows 2000. It can run almost everything XP can and runs well on machines of that speed. Actually, running Windows XP with all the fisher price stuff turned off might do the trick as well ;). Installing a full P3 or P4 (depending on the socket) instead of the Celeron wouldn't be a bad upgrade either.
 
Moto7451 said:
Install Windows 2000. It can run almost everything XP can and runs well on machines of that speed. Actually, running Windows XP with all the fisher price stuff turned off might do the trick as well ;). Installing a full P3 or P4 (depending on the socket) instead of the Celeron wouldn't be a bad upgrade either.
Click to expand...

+1

Just throw on XP or 2000 and then he has support for new apps and can use his existing ME experience / knowledge.
 
He has a full P4 Williamette if I recall right. Yeah the crappy one...
He has invested enough into this machine already. The Rambus upgrade 256 megs to 512 was expensive and ticked him off. So we are gonna keep the cost low and give it a little more life if we can. If he says screw it. I am gonna buy a new machine. I am going to get the machine and set it up for the the grandkids to use and do educational games on it. My nephew has broken XP to many times. So this will slow him down a bit.

I did talk about running 2000 on his machine. If he is going to upgrade Windows. He might as well get a new machine. It is easier for him to just buy a new machine if this is the case costing more.

Once he gets the Ubuntu disk. I might just have him do Wubi and check that out. If Wubi supports such an outdated OS. If not, he is getting a drive I setup for him. It will make it much easier for me to ssh into the machine later on. Bah, phone support. That is what ssh is for. It works splendid for my sister and she lives in California. With my little sister I tell her to close her yapper and let me fix it. My father in law would shoot me if I talked to him like that/.
 
Last edited:
1.3 GHz and 512 RAM is more than enough for windows XP. XP only requires a Pentium MMX and 64 MB of RAM. The only time XP has been horribly slow for me is when the system has <300 MHz CPU and <128 MB RAM (thats without SP2)
 
The big thing. He told me he cannot/will not install Windows. Unless it is automated or he pays someone to do it. He is a true Joe Sixpack. So that Retail copy of XP will not be just him buying it. He does not shop online. Finding a local copy of an OEM is not going to be easy in a smallish town. We crunched the number roughly. Easier and cheaper to head to Walmart and grab a new machine for 499.00. Then he has a new machine and two cores.

Side note: It took me 4 hours once to get him a driver installed. On the phone. That was a test of my patience. First finding his model Compaq(old machine) on the now HP site. Then locate XP drivers for it.... Then get him to install the properly.

I honestly believe the ease of Ubuntu will make it easy since he is going to have a learning curve anyways. Plus stop getting all them damn bots he seems to collect. Installing Ubuntu versus Windows XP is going to be a nice perk. Ubuntu is much easier overall than Windows to install. Odd as that sounds. I believe he can install popular Linux over XP. Ubuntu is brainless to install. I just cannot setup a automated Windows solution this far away to get him going for free. Minus shipping the disc/disk(s).

I am not resisting the advice. I am just filling in what is going on and his wishes included.. Input is very much welcome.
 
Last edited:
Enablingwolf said:
The big thing. He told me he cannot/will not install Windows. Unless it is automated or he pays someone to do it. He is a true Joe Sixpack. So that Retail copy of XP will not be just him buying it. He does not shop online. Finding a local copy of an OEM is not going to be easy in a smallish town. We crunched the number roughly. Easier and cheaper to head to Walmart and grab a new machine for 499.00. Then he has a new machine and two cores.

Side note: It took me 4 hours once to get him a driver installed. On the phone. That was a test of my patience. First finding his model Compaq(old machine) on the now HP site. Then locate XP drivers for it.... Then get him to install the properly.

I honestly believe the ease of Ubuntu will make it easy since he is going to have a learning curve anyways. Plus stop getting all them damn bots he seems to collect. Installing Ubuntu versus Windows XP is going to be a nice perk. Ubuntu is much easier overall than Windows to install. Odd as that sounds. I believe he can install popular Linux over XP. Ubuntu is brainless to install. I just cannot setup a automated Windows solution this far away to get him going for free. Minus shipping the disc/disk(s).

I am not resisting the advice. I am just filling in what is going on and his wishes included.. Input is very much welcome.
Click to expand...

If you go with the Redmond crowd, you can slipstream and automate the install of Windows - drivers and all the options - using nLite. But you'll also have to, uh, pay for Windows 2000... :) nLite can literally make it "Disc in, reboot, have lunch".

(I use this method.)
 
Thats the kicker. He does not want to invest any more money in the machine. I know about nLite. :D He already stated, he is "not going to buy more crap for the machine". His subscription for Panda(yuk) is good for another 9 months. That thing lets in just about any bot it seems. He is always getting some kind of malware. There is no telling him it is junk either.

I would have to have him inventory all his toys, so I could slip them in. So far most of it seems like it would work out of the box with Ubuntu. Except, maybe his Kodak camera. I know he likes that easy share thing.
 
Enablingwolf said:
Side note: It took me 4 hours once to get him a driver installed. On the phone. That was a test of my patience. First finding his model Compaq(old machine) on the now HP site. Then locate XP drivers for it.... Then get him to install the properly.
Click to expand...

Cases like this, one should take advantage of remote access/VNC applications. I'm about to walk my grandmother through installing the logmein client on her computer, so that whenever she has problems, I can just take control of her computer, as if I'm there. By FAR easier than walking someone through on the phone.

I'm sure there's some easy to install VNC apps for linux, that you can spend 4-5 hours walking him through, and never spend 4-5 hours on anything every again. In fact, many distro's have built in VNC clients.

EDIT: Just found something. Scroll down to where it says NX Free. This should be perfect for remote linux assistance.
 
Last edited:
SSH works well for remote assistence but I often have problems getting behind certain routers... mine at home is setup properly however that is not always the case. And also the problems you may run into are changing IPs. In terms of the built in remote desktop (tightVNC) I am sure there is a way to use it over the internet but I dont know the command to use it such

for ssh
Code: 
ssh username@internet ip -R 22:local ip :22 session type (gnome, kde etc) screen you want to display session on

ssh [email protected] -R 22: 192.168.3.143:22 gnome-session -- :1

for the vnc the only way i know how to use it is
Code: 
vncviewer username@ip

which doesn't seem to work over the internet
 
Stratus_ss said:
SSH works well for remote assistence but I often have problems getting behind certain routers... mine at home is setup properly however that is not always the case. And also the problems you may run into are changing IPs. In terms of the built in remote desktop (tightVNC) I am sure there is a way to use it over the internet but I dont know the command to use it such

for ssh
Code: 
ssh username@internet ip -R 22:local ip :22 session type (gnome, kde etc) screen you want to display session on

ssh [email protected] -R 22: 192.168.3.143:22 gnome-session -- :1

for the vnc the only way i know how to use it is
Code: 
vncviewer username@ip

which doesn't seem to work over the internet
Click to expand...

With logmein, and I'm sure nomachine, a client app is installed on the computer, which signals the logmein/nomachine server, via remote port 80. If the routers firewall is configured to allow http out, then there's no need to add any rules to the firewall. Since the app signals it's presence, when ran, it also negates the need for updating your public IP. Because of its simplicity, it's perfect for remote troubleshooting a joe sixpacks computer.

Only shortfalls are the restrictions set by the service provider, that are provided for payed versions. I'm not familiar with nomachine.com, but logmein will does not support file transfers, nor stream multimedia.
 
Ok an update. :D

I am please to say. This went very well. He is speeding along and not having any major issues. At least in the sense of the learning curve he would of experienced with Vista or other bump in an OS.

He took to it and loves to tell folks he is not using Windows. He is finding out most of the menus are close to what he would expect. Minus a few naming problems. Which a quick phone call later and us chuckling about it. Even had him run a few commands too. He liked it was text. Not go here, then here.. then here.. then look for this to click that.. It was a simple fix.

Overall, it is much easier than I expected and is going great.

He has his mail, browser and IM.

Haha I even had him do a Gnome easter egg. The free the fish was funny to him. Once he finally asked how do I stop it. He simply just typed killall gnome-panel. Done and he even asked why use the killall.. lol Not what the whole thing meant.. Just why is he killing the whole thing, not just the fish.

Awesome possum!
 
Enablingwolf said:
Haha I even had him do a Gnome easter egg. The free the fish was funny to him. Once he finally asked how do I stop it. He simply just typed killall gnome-panel. Done and he even asked why use the killall.. lol Not what the whole thing meant.. Just why is he killing the whole thing, not just the fish.

Awesome possum!
Click to expand...


Code: 
hrsetrdr@debian-DS3-5:~$ free the fish
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       2060276    1044280    1015996          0     176336     231444
-/+ buffers/cache:     636500    1423776
Swap:       634528          0     634528


Hmmm, that's all I got...was there supposed to be more?


*edited* o.k., googled it, tried alternative method- right click gnome panel, click "about panels" then press "F" 3 times....got a lone fish swimming accross the screen! Cool easter egg.
 
Last edited:
Do it in the run application prompt. Alt+F2

It was a nice fun lesson. To show how to address simple things. Also it encourages searching for hints.
 
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