Should I WC? Please advise.

Alright I'm thinking if I should bite the bullet and build a watercooling setup. I want quietness and lower temps. Currently I have 6x120mm fans, 1x80mm fan (PSU) and 3x60mm fans on 8800gtx (aftermarket cooler).

It's loud, not effective and crashes every once in a while in the summer time.

q6600 @ 3.6 (450*8) with 1.53vcore. Lapped both the cpu and the TRUE and the temps are aweful at load especially now in the summer. They're always well over 70 degrees on load, sometimes over 80. :-$

Current idle is 49 degrees.

I'd like to get rid of some of the fans by doing a single loop with the cpu and mounting the rad outside of the case since my antec case allows for that.

1.) What block should I get? Is the Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ Universal CPU Waterblock good?

2.) What pump? Can I run 1/2 tubing as it's thicker and looks nicer?

3.) Do I need a resevoir?

4.) What type of tubing do you recommend?

I would like to mount the rad way above the case, on the wall maybe and put a fan controller on the 3-4 fans that way I can control noise at all times.

Money isn't really an issue but I don't need the absolute best if it costs too much. Just something reasonable.

Thanks

no

thorilan said:

no

Click to expand...

I realize my post was a little disorganized.. but you could have been a little more helpful!

Hahaha...feeling spicy today thorilan?

The-Traveler - Have a read through this guide and the stickies at the top of this forum to get a basic knowledge. A couple of your questions may be answered while you read. What isn't, come back and ask and we'll be happy to help.

I found this guide to be helpful as well...

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232

1. Yes the apogee gtz is a good block and works well with quads.

2. I always use 1/2" ID tubing. You can get thicker OD if you need it. For a pump: http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=172

3. No, you dont need a resevoir, you can use a T-line setup if you choose. I prefer T-line, others prefer resevoir.

4. I like clearflex60 myself. Tygon also has some good tubing and tends to be a little clearer than the clearflex.

I would keep the rad attached to the case somewhere. Depending on what case you have, you can attach it to the rear or top. Also depends on how big a rad you use. For a single loop, I would go with a 2x120 rad.

1. yes its a great block by a great company. its not the best out right now but its dam close. if you want options look at the heat killer or dtek fuzion v2. i own the dtek fusion v2 for my q6600.

2. here are some great standard w/c pumps.
Pumps
Swiftech MCP355 with XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC or EK-DDC X-Top Rev 2

Swiftech MCP655 Vario - adjustable speed and 1 speed faster then the basic
Swiftech MCP655 Basic - is equal to the vario on setting 4.

i personally have 2 of the mcp655's.

3. no, you don't need a res but it helps for bleeding the air out of the loop. i use t-lines in my loops for cost and the way i have them makes fine for bleed air.

4. i have only tried 2 brands. clearflex 60 and masterkleer. i have the clearflex first and didn't like it as it clouded up on me fast. they use a plastizer to keep the tubing soft that leaches into the water and turns the tubing white. i then tried masterkleer and it's been runing for 5 months or so and still clear. so i will recommend masterkleer. tygon is good from all that i hear but costs far to much imo.


i have my q6600 on a swiftech triple 120mm rad with 3.5GHz @ 1.4v getting max load temps of 50C. you can use a double 120mm rad for it though and be quiet. but since you want your vga in the loop i would go with a triple 120mm rad or 2x double 120mm rads.

simply put he asked should i water cool but then asks what parts he should get as if he made up his mind.
it shows confusion and watercooling is something you should enter into with clear intent and purposes fixed in your mind because until you make the decision for your self we can do nothing to help because what will often happen is someone who is lazy ( and im not saying this person was ) will come to a forum with no knowledge , read parts of a sticky that may or may not be outdated, take things out of context , ask a few un answerable questions then get a response on what to buy. they then buy the stuff set up loop, dont get the expected results and blame others.

to prevent that there is the Mr Miagi method ( yes from Karate Kid)
walk on the left side of road ok
walk on right side of road ok
walk in the middle , sooner or later, SQUASH like grape

the only way to combat this is to Educate people and then let them take responsibility and make the decision for themselves.

its nothing personal and i did not post with the intent or tone that i was being sarcastic. may peoplehave misunderstood what i have said many times because of this but i lay things out mostly without emotion based on facts. people asign sub meaning based on thier own experiances and beliefs and misread what i am getting at .

For what it's worth, I mostly agree. I'm about to start my first wc build and it seems traveler is where I was a few weeks ago. I kinda think the "should I wc?" question is one that needs to be answered by one's self. For me, all it took was 30 mins of eyeballing wc galleries. After that, I spent the next three weeks, (off and on), ghosting forums, googling, looking through water case galleries and reading every sticky I could find... then I started posting questions. So, I agree, educating one's self... doing a little research... due diligence... whatever, is important. And all you uber-WC'ers are part of this process. But, how does deadpan "no" help to educate the OP in any way? Do you really wonder why your reply was construed as rude and unhelpful?

thorilan, I see your reasoning for just saying 'no'. Sometimes it just gets to you. Better not to go water with no idea what to do. Now if the OP had asked informed researched input, maybe then it's more of 'What do you plan to get out of WC?'

Loved it.
My son when he was young hated it.
"NO"
For the OP, my massive rambling with good links etc. OP, please take your time. We'll help ya, we's got some great peeps.
................................................................
lUs guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $50 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC Forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky. Look here too…. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835
............................
Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.
,…………………………………………………………
Here is the poop on solid info on air/water temps. The link is to an MCR320.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html
Scroll half way down and you can see the in/out air diff on the chart. It depends, like I said on fannage what the out air temp vs. the in temp is.

You can also see the water in/out is very close in temps. No more than 1.5 C. Amazing eh? I thought so too once I deciphered the charts.

So if you put a second rad with good airflow, you still get good results. Fannage needs to be higher to compensate for the increased air restriction. Meaning double fans on the rad setup, but it's a viable solution.

Equilibrium (tough word) means with a set heat load (idle/load) after an amount of time temps in a WC loop will stabilize. The heat load is the same, ambient air is the same, fannage is the same, pumps are the same, size of rads are the same, temps will stabilize for those conditions. Any of these parameters change, it has to stabilize.
…………………………………………………………
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The bocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. Run a rag using a coat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HWmonitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: RealTemp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.p...s&catid=40:overclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

The-Traveler said:

Alright I'm thinking if I should bite the bullet and build a watercooling setup. I want quietness and lower temps. Currently I have 6x120mm fans, 1x80mm fan (PSU) and 3x60mm fans on 8800gtx (aftermarket cooler).

It's loud, not effective and crashes every once in a while in the summer time.

q6600 @ 3.6 (450*8) with 1.53vcore. Lapped both the cpu and the TRUE and the temps are aweful at load especially now in the summer. They're always well over 70 degrees on load, sometimes over 80. :-$

Current idle is 49 degrees.

I'd like to get rid of some of the fans by doing a single loop with the cpu and mounting the rad outside of the case since my antec case allows for that.

1.) What block should I get? Is the Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ Universal CPU Waterblock good?

2.) What pump? Can I run 1/2 tubing as it's thicker and looks nicer?

3.) Do I need a resevoir?

4.) What type of tubing do you recommend?

I would like to mount the rad way above the case, on the wall maybe and put a fan controller on the 3-4 fans that way I can control noise at all times.

Money isn't really an issue but I don't need the absolute best if it costs too much. Just something reasonable.

Thanks

Click to expand...

1. The GTZ is great, the DTek Fuzion (my current block) is also a great choice
2. Swiftech MCP series is great
3. You can use a T-line, they work great but they take FOREVER and a day to bleed. I bought a Res off of the forums for 5 bux and have never looked back. It takes me 10 minutes to bleed what once took me 2-3 hours.
4. 1/2" tubing is pretty standard for good size/availablity.

Thank you everyone for responding and I'll definitely take sometime this weekend to go through the suggested readings.

Two more questions.

1.) Does anyone know what blocks are needed to watercool a p5e3 deluxe? (I'll google it shortly )

2.) Also, I want a nice rad outside of my case and the bigger the better. I don't want a car rad or anything like that but can someone suggest a 3 or more fan radiator that's made for watercooling and isn't garbage?

3.) Am I mistaken when I say that the bigger the rad the more thermal energy my water cooling system could absorb/dissipate?

EDIT:

Scratch #1. Won't touch the chipset and that although I've read that Apogee may not fit because of the heatsinks.

Looking at these pics do you think the heatsinks will be in the way?

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...illa:en-US:official&hs=eMW&sa=N&start=21&um=1

The-Traveler said:

Thank you everyone for responding and I'll definitely take sometime this weekend to go through the suggested readings.

Click to expand...

Please take more than some casual reading just this weekend. Maybe a week or so, at least 5-6 hours total. Reading 30-50 posts all the way through each of the forums I suggested will be a wealth of knowledge. It's worth it, and it's better than buying stuff, getting it home, and ruining a mobo or video card.

2. any of these 3 quad 120mm rads.

Quad 120mm
XSPC RX480
HW Labs Black Ice GTX480
Feser X-Changer Triple 120 mm
themochill is coming out with one as well. i wish swiftech would too.

or some triples.

Triple 120mm
ThermoChill PA 120.3
XSPC RX360
HW Labs Black Ice GTX360
Swiftech MCR320-QP
Feser X-Changer Triple 120 mm



3. correct. no such thing as overkill i have a triple 120mm for my gpu when i could easly get away with a single 120.

If you will only be cooling the CPU then I suggest a 2x120 rad. You get diminishing returns for anything bigger for just a CPU.

If on the other hand you intend to add your gtx 280 into the loop, then I would say 3x120.

Let add a bit more. I'm a bit harsh and think a slow plodding path is the only way.

You got some great input from Spawn, he always comes through. But why is he suggesting those rads? Curious? It's all in the data in the tests and the multitudes of forums he reads since he began to WC.

You can trust his input and go with his recommendations. In time you can learn the why if you want to.

Why? Why is each rad different? Curious?
Read here for a while:
http://www.skinneelabs.com/
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/

Conumdrum said:

You got some great input from Spawn, he always comes through. But why is he suggesting those rads? Curious? It's all in the data in the tests and the multitudes of forums he reads since he began to WC.

Click to expand...

and all the help from guys like you and thorilan and a bunch others to which i cannot remember at the current time in question <- lots to go around

i'm not sure if it's just me and the fact that i pretty much repeat what i say alot, but i feel like a broken record recommending the same parts over and over. but then again there isn't THAT much to recommend out there. and the same brands keep making great stuff so, well i've lost my point by this point so i will stop drinking and foruming, in a while :/