[mgcul8r]

Hello everyone, i hope some of you very learned AMD guys could help me, my problem is that i just bought this mobo + proc for my grandmother to use to entertain her grandchildren/nieces/nephews. Anyway.. i'm certainly not a beginner to computers and overclocking, i own an i7-860 + ASRock p55-Deluxe + Msi R5770 PM2D1G as my first rig, and a Q6600 + Biostar TP45 HP + ATI Radeon hd 2400 pro as my backup rig. I have the 860 @ 160 Bclk with turbo it hits 4160 Mhz easily on 1.26v under load 1.33v in bios and as Stable as the sun coming up, and my q6600 is @ 3.3 Ghz @ 1.312 i think in bios, not sure- it is my backup after all. SO i definately know at least a little about computers. So... Basically i got this Mobo cuz a lot of ppl, in all the forums i troll, recommended this board. The problem is that this is the 1st AMD rig i've built, and the bios is a little confusing to me. I literally been looking for about a week, for which voltage is for what in the bios. and if it were as simple as googling it, i wouldn't be posting this message, as i am a person who would rather learn it myself- than ask, what to some, what might sound like a "stupid question". but googling left me more confused than anything, people in the different forums give conflicting info as to which voltage is for :

1. the cpu-nb (i believe this is the IMC, correct me if i'm wrong)
2. the nb chipset
3. fsb (ht ref clock)
4. sb chipset

my bios options are as follows in Jumper Free Configuration:

1. CPU/HT Reference clock (MHz) min = 200 max = 500
2. processor multiplier = this is obvious too
3. cpu over voltage = obviously the Vcore
4. VDDNB Over Voltage = not so obvious to me (1 forum says its the cpu-nb, others say its the actual nb chipset, and still others say nb vid confusing
5. HT Link Frequency= HYPERTRANSPORT Freq 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800, and 2000
6. HT link Width+ sets ht width, options are auto, 8 Bit and 16 Bit
7. HT Over Voltage= lot of conflicting info for this too, some say nb voltage, others cpu-nb (see a pattern here, and why i'm confused)
8. Memory Over Voltage = Vdimm
9. Chipset Voltage= some say nb chipset, others say sb chipset, some say cpu-nb

I like to think i'm not dumb, but come on now- intel is way easier, but thats not to say i think intel is better, but for a board so well recommended- why is the bios terminoligy so confusing?

I'd like it if someone could tell me the stock voltages for the X3 425 for the cpu-nb, nb, ht, vcore, and sb chipset.... and what each voltage setting in this boards BIOS is actually for, and recommended safe limits for each voltage. also, what voltage setting in MY bios should be increased if i: 1 oc my ram 2. oc my NB frequency 3. oc HT frequency and 4 . if i raise my ht ref clk- with or without lowering my nb + ht miltipliers

I know this is a lot to ask for, but it seemed like this was the place that i probably would get a straight answer from someone. Thanks to anyone, in advance, for helping me, seriously ANY info would help! i can't seem to get this board stable with THIS RAM F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ, even with BIOS defaults, but i tested the ram with memtest 4.0 overnight, 20 passes without an error, but LinX fails sometimes 3-5 hours in, occasionally 30 minutes in, never tried so hard to get a stock clock stable

AGAIN THANKS

[mgcul8r]

no takers?

[mgcul8r]

anyone know default and max 24/7 save voltages are for:
1. VDDNB OVER VOLTAGE
2. HT OVER VOLTAGE
3. CHIPSET OVER VOLTAGE

and what they are actually for? i'm thinking that, on this particular board
1. VDDNB OVER VOLTAGE = CPU-NB VOLTAGE
2. HT OVER VOLTAGE = voltage for ht link speed
3. CHIPSET OVER VOLTAGE = NB CHIPSET VOLTAGE

PLEASE someone point me in the right direction, hard 2 believe that nobody has this board and knows how to use it.

[trents]

Set everything to default or auto in bios. Download and install AMD Overdrive. Poke around in the tabs and it will tell you what the current voltages are for various things as well as what the adjustable voltage range is for various CPU/chipset parameters. Its important to set everything to default before you do this, however.

Another approach is to set everything to auto in bios and then switch each item in question to manual. The reading it initially shows in manual before any adjustment should be the auto/default setting.

Hope this helps.

Bios manufacturers sometimes play fast and loose with "NB" and "CPU NB" terminology, sometimes using them interchangeably and thus adding to the confusion. Usually, the section the item is found will tip you off as to what its function is. If "NB" is found in the chipset section of bios it probably refers to the video controller NB chip. If it is found in the CPU/memory overclocking section it probably refers to the IMC.

Who is your bios manufacturer? Award? AMI? If we know that maybe someone else with that same bios can provide more guidance.

I'm running the Athlon II X4 Propus which is essentially what you're trying to overclock except with all the cores enabled. If I can help you with some specific voltage suggestions let me know. That might get you in the ball park.

Are you using the OEM AMD cooler?

I might also suggest removing all but one memory module and see if the setup is stable at bios defaults. Some boards have a problem in dual channel mode.

[boucher91]

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...light=voltages
here ya go

[mgcul8r]

thanks Trents and boucher91, seriously thanks! i almost didn't post here because i really like learning things for myself. UPDATE: i flashed bios to newest (0906 i think) and as far as i can tell EVERYTHING OS A-OK! currently running 3240 MHZ 240x13.5 @ 1.4v vcore, 2.01v vdimm and everything else on auto except NB*9 and HT*8. ddr 800. and it passed a 500 minute run on LinX. cpu temp~52c max and core temps~39c both while running LinX. what are safe max voltages for CPU, HT over voltage, vddnb over voltage, and chipset? also what are said voltages actually for? which is actually the cpu-nb, and which is actually the nb chipset voltage, and which is actually for the hypertransport?
also, if i OC- but keep ht and nb frequencies and cpu speeds ~ stock (2000 MHZ for nb+ht, + 2700 MHz for core speed) which voltage/voltages specifically do i need to raise? meaning which voltage is needed to be raised if i ONLY raise HT ref clk? the guides say raise this or that, but my bios is a lil confusing. ANYWAY, THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, AND THANKS FOR ANY MORE HELP THAT YOU GUYS/GIRLS TOSS MY WAY!

[QuietIce]

You'll get different responses for what is what because BIOS programmers can't seem to settle on a terminology. Each board is a little different and even BIOS's from the same manufacturer are sometimes different. I've indicated my best guess for the chipsets, since that's the only real confusion I can see.


3. cpu over voltage
vCore default is 1.35v and can be run as high as 1.55v with very good cooling - but that's the catch. AMD CPU's need a lot to make them hot and they don't like it. To keep a good OC you should try to stay below 55°C for a load core temp (not to be confused with idle core or the "CPU" temp reported by many programs). The load core temp is the key here.

4. VDDNB Over Voltage
Usually this is the cpuNB voltage. An easy way to tell - the cpuNB voltage steps are often 0.0125v (or 0.025v) instead of the 0.05v (or 0.1v) usually found on chipset settings. The cpuNB voltage is safe from 1.175-1.250v and can effect core temp as much as vCore. I'd start at 1.200v and adjust upward as needed.

5. HT Link Frequency= HYPERTRANSPORT Freq 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800, and 2000
Often expressed like this (as a multiple of 200) but is actually a multiplier, so the speed will change with changing HTRef values. Straightforward here: 1600 = 8X, 1800 = 9X, etc. At 240 / 1600 your HT Link will be running 240x8 = 1920 MHz.

6. HT link Width+ sets ht width, options are auto, 8 Bit and 16 Bit
You can leave this on Auto or set it to 16-bit.

7. HT Over Voltage
This is NOT the cpuNB voltage but I've seen BIOS's where this is the NB chipset and some where it's the SB chipset. My guess? It's the NB chipset.
Default for your NB chipset is 1.30v and can be increased to 1.40v if needed.

9. Chipset Voltage
Again, NOT cpuNB voltage. The cpuNB, as it's name implies, is on the CPU - it's not part of any chipset. In this case I'd guess SB chipset since the HT voltage is there but this could be the NB chipset with the other being the SB chipset. SB chipset voltage default is 1.20v and seldom needs adjusting.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

also, if i OC- but keep ht and nb frequencies and cpu speeds ~ stock (2000 MHZ for nb+ht, + 2700 MHz for core speed) which voltage/voltages specifically do i need to raise? meaning which voltage is needed to be raised if i ONLY raise HT ref clk? the guides say raise this or that, but my bios is a lil confusing.

There's no reason to do this to OC. The HTRef is is not just some fancy re-label of "FSB" - it's simply a reference clock. If you've dropped all the other multipliers down to check the top end of your HTRef then raising the NB chipset voltage might get a few more MHz out of it but it won't be much.

Also note your RAM speeds, which you didn't mention lowering, is controlled by the HTRef like everything else you mentioned.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

I like to think i'm not dumb, but come on now- intel is way easier, but thats not to say i think intel is better,

It's more a matter of what you're used to working with. I found OC'ing my Q6600 to be very confusing when I first sat down to it. It took a few days to get used to the odd labels and I still don't think I understand the interrelations between the settings. I mean, seriously, why is the NB chipset not just labeled "NB chipset" instead of ICH-something (or whatever) and the same question for the SB chipset? There is no "chipset" label at all in my BIOS, it's just a bunch of numbers/letters, and if you don't know the technical names for all the sub-systems it may as well be Greek.


Anyway, good luck on the OC - and keep us posted ...

[trents]

Concerning HT, if (as Ice explained) is not a referernce to CPU NB, then it is wise to keep it at stock speeds or slightly lower by reducing the frequency (or multiplier if expressed that way) as you overclock. This will have little or no negative effect on performance and will prevent introducing instability. On your cpu, 2000mhz is the stock HT frequency. Keep it at that or slightly lower. The CPU NB frequency (also 2000mhz at stock) will take a little increase as long (as you bump up its voltage a little) without creating instability. I wouldn't let the CPU NB go higher than 2500mhz, however and probably 2250 wold be safer. Increasing it over stock will give a small performance increase, at least in benchmarking.

[trents]

mgcul8r,

A little history might help your sort out NB vs. CPU NB. Back about 5 or 6 years ago AMD systems had the memory controller on the motherboard, as did Intel-based systems. Back then it was called the North Bridge. Beginning with the Athlon 64 family, AMD moved the memory controller onto the cpu die, hence "CPU NB" and "ICM". There was still a "NB" chip on the motherboard but its function no longer had anything to do with the memory bus but became instead, associated with the on-board video function. Some bios makers, however retained the "NB" terminology to refer to the CPU NB. On those boards, you will likely see "Chipset" used to speak of the onboard video function and maybe the South Bridge as well.

[mgcul8r]

all i can say is WOW, you guys are smart!

[mgcul8r]

To be honest, i've only been messing with computers and overclocking since september. Since then i've learned a lot about computers, overclocking, and how the different things work. I've built 3 computers, the first being the Q6600/TP45HP, which i did all right and got better with my I7 rig, because i learned a lot with my first rig, but this is the first AMD rig i've built, and the whole bios terminology is totally different. So Thanks and now that I think I'm straight, I'm gonna start from scratch tomorrow. I know not to expect the OC i got with my I7, but I just want to make sure my grandmother has a 24/7 stable computer, and hopefully quick too. Thanks for your help, I'll post back tomorrow and maybe post some benches.

[mgcul8r]

okay, 1 more question Quietice, here are the 5 voltage options in bios:

1. CPU Over Voltage
2. VDDNB Over Voltage
3. HT Over Voltage
4. Memory Over Voltage
5 Chipset Over Voltage

obviously 1 + 4 What they say, but this leaves 2, 3, and 5.

now if:
#2 is for the CPU-NB voltage
#3 is for the North Bound chipset voltage
and #5 is for the SB Chipset
then which voltage is for the Hyper Transport bus? or is the voltage for the ht included in voltages # 2,3, or 5? i read somewhere that the cpu-nb is for the on die cache, the IMC (cpu nb) and the Hyper Transport. IF this is right, just for the sake of knowledge: if i overclocked my ht, which voltage/s should i increase? Also looking for max bclk/fsb/htref, which voltages should i increase? and how about if looking for max mem oc, i should have to increase vdimm, CPU-NB, and maybe NB voltages, am i right? how about max NB frequency, i should only have to increase cpu-nb(#2) and nb chipset(3) only, am i getting close here? Or am i just now more confused?
for the record, i'm only asking these questions because i want to know how it works, not because i want to overclock this rig more. I have it setup as follows:
240x13.5 (3240 MHz), DDR2-800 @ 800, cpu voltage 1.425v, vdimm 2.01v, HTx8 (1920 MHZ), NBx9 (2160 MHz), 5-5-5-15 trc 23 trfc0 1,2,3 =127.5ns and all the rest on auto. ran LinX for 500 , and it finished without errors. max MB temp was 41c, max cpu temp was 51c , max cores temps were ~ 36c according to cpuid hw monitor and core temp. what do you think? i was messin around with amd overdrive, to see how low i could drop vcore till it became unstable, and was able to drop voltage to ~ 1.204v under load according to cpu-z b4 an error occurred, so i'm thinking i could drop voltage a little, or go higher, and seeing how this is for my grandmother, i think i might go with the first. also the tab in everest shows cpu vid and nb vid, if i chang nb vid with AOD, the reading in everest goes up, with both voltages being the same. But neither voltage in the bios, regardless of which one or what i set them to, changes the reading in everest or the current nb voltage reading in AOD. does this mean that the M4a785-M can only change NB vid with AOD, and not with ANY bios setting? Again i'm really sorry for being a pain in the arse, but i wanted to thank you guys for helping me, now i do have a stable enough rig that sleeps, i just want to know how this mobo/proc works, so that i have the tools to help me further with maintaining it for my grandma. Thanks again, and if you could help me by answering my ?'s, i would very much appreciate it.

[mgcul8r]

again guys thanks, maybe, now that i have an account here at overclockers.com, and when i completely understand how to overclock this rig, i can return the favor by helping someone else with a similar problem oh yeah o forgot to mention the hsf is a coolermaster hyper 101, is that a good enough cooler? because to be honest the load and idle temps seem kinda low to me, are these processors known to run cool, even when oc'd? i touched the hsf after 5 or so hrs of linx, and it was cool to the touch. everest, core temp, AOD, and cpuid hw monitor ALL show the same readings, so i'm leaning towards them being right. Any thoughts? sorry for SO many questions.

[trents]

mgcul8r,

Would it be too much to ask you to take pics of the bios screens where each of these choices you have questions about is found and upload them to your forum post? The section of bios each of them is found in will likely determine their intent. We are at a great disadvantage trying to help you when we can't see the context each is found in. It would be very helpful to see what you see.

Your cooler is only a 80mm fan-based unit; rather small. It will not permit a large overclock; my guess would be 3.3-3.4ghz to be about your limit, given the temps you are now getting at 3.24ghz. My guess would be it is slightly more effective than the stock box cooler. How good is your case ventilation; how many fans?

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

okay, 1 more question Quietice, here are the 5 voltage options in bios:

1. CPU Over Voltage
2. VDDNB Over Voltage
3. HT Over Voltage
4. Memory Over Voltage
5 Chipset Over Voltage

obviously 1 + 4 What they say, but this leaves 2, 3, and 5.

now if:
#2 is for the CPU-NB voltage
#3 is for the North Bound chipset voltage
and #5 is for the SB Chipset

((Correct!))

then which voltage is for the Hyper Transport bus? or is the voltage for the ht included in voltages # 2,3, or 5? i read somewhere that the cpu-nb is for the on die cache, the IMC (cpu nb) and the Hyper Transport. IF this is right, just for the sake of knowledge: if i overclocked my ht, which voltage/s should i increase?

The cpuNB on your processor consists of the IMC and the crossbar, what I think of as the heart of the cpuNB. There is an HT node on the cpuNB as well but (as far as I have been able to determine) it's not the primary node where the voltage and timing clock are located. I don't know why you would even want to OC the HT Link (you should Wiki it and do some math on the bandwidth that thing runs even at 2000 MHz!) but I suppose if you decided on that you would increase #3.

The Athlon II's do not have L3 cache and the L1 and L2 caches are located in each individual processor core, so there is no "on die cache" on your cpuNB.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

Also looking for max bclk/fsb/htref, which voltages should i increase?

Originally Posted by QuietIce

There's no reason to do this to OC. The HTRef is is not just some fancy re-label of "FSB" - it's simply a reference clock. If you've dropped all the other multipliers down to check the top end of your HTRef then raising the NB chipset voltage might get a few more MHz out of it but it won't be much.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

and how about if looking for max mem oc, i should have to increase vdimm, CPU-NB, and maybe NB voltages, am i right?

You probably do not need to increase the cpuNB voltage for this but you may need to increase it's speed. At the high end you may need a cpuNB voltage bump. I can't see where the NB (chipset) would even come into play here.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

how about max NB frequency, i should only have to increase cpu-nb(#2) and nb chipset(3) only, am i getting close here? Or am i just now more confused?
for the record, i'm only asking these questions because i want to know how it works, not because i want to overclock this rig more.

???????????? The NB (chipset) does not have a "frequency".

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

I have it setup as follows:
240x13.5 (3240 MHz), DDR2-800 @ 800, cpu voltage 1.425v, vdimm 2.01v, HTx8 (1920 MHZ), NBx9 (2160 MHz), 5-5-5-15 trc 23 trfc0 1,2,3 =127.5ns and all the rest on auto. ran LinX for 500 , and it finished without errors. max MB temp was 41c, max cpu temp was 51c , max cores temps were ~ 36c according to cpuid hw monitor and core temp. what do you think? i was messin around with amd overdrive, to see how low i could drop vcore till it became unstable, and was able to drop voltage to ~ 1.204v under load according to cpu-z b4 an error occurred, so i'm thinking i could drop voltage a little, or go higher, and seeing how this is for my grandmother, i think i might go with the first.

I've seen many people undervolt these CPUs to cut down on the heat and/or save on power use. At stock speeds, and even with a mild OC, these undervolt well. My 940BE would run the stock 3.0 GHz at 1.15v, which is -0.20v.

Originally Posted by mgcul8r

oh yeah o forgot to mention the hsf is a coolermaster hyper 101, is that a good enough cooler? because to be honest the load and idle temps seem kinda low to me, are these processors known to run cool, even when oc'd? i touched the hsf after 5 or so hrs of linx, and it was cool to the touch. everest, core temp, AOD, and cpuid hw monitor ALL show the same readings, so i'm leaning towards them being right. Any thoughts? sorry for SO many questions.

Originally Posted by QuietIce

3. cpu over voltage
vCore default is 1.35v and can be run as high as 1.55v with very good cooling - but that's the catch. AMD CPU's need a lot to make them hot and they don't like it. To keep a good OC you should try to stay below 55°C for a load core temp (not to be confused with idle core or the "CPU" temp reported by many programs). The load core temp is the key here.

So, no, the 51°C that you've got is not particularly low for AMD's - even OC'ed AMD's.


Something for you to look over. The "performance cache" shown is commonly known as Sideport memory and is for the IGP.

[mgcul8r]

CPU OVERCLOCKING:

CPU/HT Reference Clock: MANUAL 240
GPU OVERCLOCKING: AUTO
PCI-E OVERCLOCKING: MANUAL 100

CPU RATIO AND VOLTAGE:

multiplier: x13.5
CPU/NB Frequency : MANUAL 9x
CPU OVER VOLTAGE : MANUAL 1.425V for now, plan to lower AFTER determined stable
VDDNB OVER VOLTAGE: AUTO
LOAD LINE CALIBRATION: AUTO = 51%

HYPER TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION:

HT LINK FREQUENCY: 8x = 1600 @ 200HT REF CLK
HT LINK WIDTH : AUTO
HT OVER VOLTAGE : AUTO

MEMORY TIMING AND VOLTAGE

TIMING MODE: MANUAL
TCL=5
TRCD=5
TRP=5
TRTP=AUTO
TRAS=15
TRC=23
TWR=AUTO
TRRD=AUTO
TRWTTO=AUTO
TWRRD=AUTO
TWTR=AUTO
TWRWR=AUTO
TRFC0,1,2,3 ALL=127.5ns
MEMORY OVER VOLTAGE=1.2V FOR NOW, rated at 1.8-2.0v

CHIPSET OVER VOLTAGE=AUTO

[mgcul8r]

The cpuNB on your processor consists of the IMC and the crossbar, what I think of as the heart of the cpuNB. There is an HT node on the cpuNB as well but (as far as I have been able to determine) it's not the primary node where the voltage and timing clock are located. I don't know why you would even want to OC the HT Link (you should Wiki it and do some math on the bandwidth that thing runs even at 2000 MHz!) but I suppose if you decided on that you would increase #3.

The Athlon II's do not have L3 cache and the L1 and L2 caches are located in each individual processor core, so there is no "on die cache" on your cpuNB.

ohhh. btw, i didn't want to oc my ht, i think you were right in thinking that i thought ht ref clk=fsb, so i was thinking as i raised ht ref clk- i would need to raise a "fsb-like" voltage

[mgcul8r]

You probably do not need to increase the cpuNB voltage for this but you may need to increase it's speed. At the high end you may need a cpuNB voltage bump. I can't see where the NB (chipset) would even come into play here.

another nice bit of info

???????????? The NB (chipset) does not have a "frequency".

LoL can u tell i was a lil confused!

3. cpu over voltage
vCore default is 1.35v and can be run as high as 1.55v with very good cooling - but that's the catch. AMD CPU's need a lot to make them hot and they don't like it. To keep a good OC you should try to stay below 55°C for a load core temp (not to be confused with idle core or the "CPU" temp reported by many programs). The load core temp is the key here.
So, no, the 51°C that you've got is not particularly low for AMD's - even OC'ed AMD's.

max MB temp was 41c, max cpu temp was 51c , max cores temps were ~ 36c according to cpuid hw monitor and core temp

what would cause cores temps to be sow low compared to my tcase temp (is that right? tcase=cpu temp) and what could i do to lower that temp? better case airfolw? or lowering a particular voltage?

btw.. according to my bios:

VDDNB: varies by cpu, standard= cpu-0.300v-- i'm quoting that
HT OVER VOLTAGE: values range from 1.2v to 1.38v in 0.015v increments
CHIPSET OVER VOLTAGE: values range from 1.1v to 1.61v in increments of 0.015v also

does that cement what you said earlier, that VDDNB=IMC V=CPU-NB, that HT VOLTAGE=NB CHIPSET V, AND CHIPSET V=SB CHIPSET VOLTAGE?

if so, thanks you REALLY helped me understand this better, and if not, I've gotta be getting warmer lol

[mgcul8r]

all you motherboard manufacturers/bios writers, take a note, make the bios a little less confusing! If i made the bios, I DEFINATELY would put, in SIMPLE TERMS, what each setting is for! eg. VDDNB OVER VOLTAGE:

[mgcul8r]

WHY CAN'T BIOS WRITERS MAKE THINGS A LITTLE LESS OPEN FOR INTERPRETATION? iI mean that if I wrote the bios, I would put stuff like:
VDDNB OVER VOLTAGE: this is the voltage for the CPU/NB or th IMC
HT OVER VOLTAGE: this is the voltage for NB CHIPSET
CHIPSET OVER VOLTAGE: this is the voltage for the SB CHIPSET

Nooooo they make it purposefully vague, so people either have to learn what can seem to be a lot, or pay people to setup/fix it for you. I can't be the only one who thinks that they make things more complicated than they really are. Anyway I hope now that my understanding of this bios is correct, and I will post back here with my results, if anyone is interested. And if anyone has the same mobo/cpu as me, I'd really like to compare overclocks and maybe some pointers of what this board responds best to.

Thanks Quietice and trents, your knowledge is invaluable, and much appreciated!