MSI Giveth .. and taketh away.

Around the beginning of the year, I bought an MSI 880GMA-E45. It was a pretty good price after MIR (plus the Newegg Shell Shocker deal) I populated it with a Phenom II X4 820 that I overclocked to 3.5 GHz. At that time I had the idea in the back of my head that some day I could bump performance by getting a better processor. I figured that with time and the introduction of new processors, the high end AM3 processors would become mid range and be priced accordingly. At the time I printed out the processor support table from their web site. (PDF actually.) I just looked at that page. While there weren't many 125 watt processors originally listed, there seem to be none any more.

There may also be some confusion over TDP of the processors. For example they list the 955BE as a 95 watt processor while AMD lists it as 125 watts.

First question: Am I asking for trouble if I upgrade to a faster processor and then overclock it on top of that. I've added VRM coolers if that makes a difference. (I'm not really sure if those need to handle more power as processor TDP goes up.)

Second question: If a processor is not listed in the supported list, will the system even come up with it installed? Does the BIOS have to lookup settings for a processor in order to POST and boot? For example, if the Thuban 1065T is supported, what can I expect to happen if I plug in a 1090T? (Also note that the 1065T is locked whereas the 1090T is unlocked.)

I'm wondering if there is going to be much in the way of a cheap upgrade for this system or if I need to start saving my pennies for something that'll run a BD chip.

thanks,
hank

Note: the MSI processor support page for this board:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/880GMA-E45.html#?div=CPUSupport

HankB said:

Around the beginning of the year, I bought an MSI 880GMA-E45. It was a pretty good price after MIR (plus the Newegg Shell Shocker deal) I populated it with a Phenom II X4 820 that I overclocked to 3.5 GHz. At that time I had the idea in the back of my head that some day I could bump performance by getting a better processor. I figured that with time and the introduction of new processors, the high end AM3 processors would become mid range and be priced accordingly. At the time I printed out the processor support table from their web site. (PDF actually.) I just looked at that page. While there weren't many 125 watt processors originally listed, there seem to be none any more.

MSI probably had a lot of customer complaints and board failures when 125W CPUs were used on this board and so removed those that had originally been on the list.

There may also be some confusion over TDP of the processors. For example they list the 955BE as a 95 watt processor while AMD lists it as 125 watts.

There was indeed a 95W 955 X4 Deneb on the market but I don't recall if it was a BE. It was pretty rare and seems like it was only being market in Europe.

First question: Am I asking for trouble if I upgrade to a faster processor and then overclock it on top of that. I've added VRM coolers if that makes a difference. (I'm not really sure if those need to handle more power as processor TDP goes up.)

Likely, in view of the fact that MSI seems to have tacitly acknowledged that the board was marginal for 125W CPUs to begin with.

Second question: If a processor is not listed in the supported list, will the system even come up with it installed? Does the BIOS have to lookup settings for a processor in order to POST and boot? For example, if the Thuban 1065T is supported, what can I expect to happen if I plug in a 1090T? (Also note that the 1065T is locked whereas the 1090T is unlocked.)

If you plug in a CPU not on the CPU compatibility list you might get away with it just fine as long as its in the same model line with same specs but it is also likely that the board will not be able to recognize it and will go into some sort of minimal fail safe mode.

I'm wondering if there is going to be much in the way of a cheap upgrade for this system or if I need to start saving my pennies for something that'll run a BD chip.

Start saving your pennies.

thanks,
hank

Note: the MSI processor support page for this board:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/880GMA-E45.html#?div=CPUSupport

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Hank, I would stay away from MSI in the future. We here of more problems with MSI boards on this forum than any of the other major brands. They are not what they used to be.

Ugh, that doesn't sound good, especially since I was considering an MSI vs gigabyte... needless to say gigabyte won.

More than likely, with 125 watt TDP board, they were having issues with the VRMs holding up. I'd think with small heatsinks on them, you'd be okay as long as you didn't OC. Don't take my word for that though, as i don't use MSI stuff and never have.

I know my board's VRM can get toasty with 150watts going through them, and that's with heatsinks and airflow right over them.

nayyy....hankB just trolling around!! if you in such detail how to buy computer parts...then why don't you ask for each parts in your computer like for instance if you buy in the store...."hello mister....can i buy 2Gb ram which is supported to my mobo uhh i wanna buy 1 terabyte HDD which is also supported to my mobo and exactly supported to my mobo....can you find that all for me sir?? i'm willing to buy it all...." i'm 90% sure that the store clerk will say in their heart "your annoying pesky brat....how in the hell i know all that!!"....i will say you are annoying too...the store only know how to make profits...it is us to make all that options...the store will give you what you need if you list down and if they don't have....then mostly they will gave another solution....i sometimes got wrong choices after buying few parts for my computer whoever its supported or not...it is me who blamed!! why didn't i knew that or why didn't i buy another brands??...so its up to us to learn better to choose what suitables for our computer

I think amd listed them both as i was just looking at that.

lucky i am not so picky to choose!! because it's matter of budget also...and which stores that stocked good CPU parts.....also different region of sales!! like me in Asia...maybe and just maybe MSI on Asia got good name in here rather on Europe or US...not all comes from 1 assembling ain't i??....anyway! there's to many variables how to choose good parts.....i think!
1.must nearest store or get it from online store
2.did store near you have what you want?? or must find it again on online store?
3.the brand you choose have bad reputations in your country nor in outside
4.you got defected item

correct me if i'm wrong! so if one of us got in our way what would you do??

"HankB", "trents" post HERE just about says it all. MSI like all motherboard makers reserves the right to change specifications at any time and they have.

In this forum we have already chased that 125W vs 95W cpu spec change for MSI. Here we have decided that the MSI VRMs could not in the long run handle the 125Watt cpus. Surely MSI is not going to come out and say the cpu voltage circuit is not able to handle some 125W cpus over an extended period of time. We have to go thru 100s of posts to see failures and change our minds as to what mobos seem to work out the best. As 'trents' says we are beginning to see too many problems with MSI AMD lately. Scientific? Did not claim to be so. Just an observed fact from what we read.

AMD does this quite often in making an OEM cpu for proprietary use by OEM configurators by offering a specific cpu for a specific situation. You can in fact find a few 95 watt 3.2Ghz LOCKED 955 cpus. The are classed as TRAY cpus and thus not for strict Retail sale and would have the lesser warranty. You can find at least one seller in the Usa offering this LOCKED, OEM 95W processor for about $100 USD. By the way OEM system intergrators do not sell systems for overclocking so a LOCKED cpu meant nothing to them. They were looking for a lower power cpu for their lessser rated power supplies with a 3.2Ghz speed. Not to mention the L3 cache drop from 6MB to only 4MB. AMD did oblige the OEMs but it has caused confusion in the ranks of the DIYers.

You also have to realize the 95W cpu you have in use now is a 2600Mhz processor that you have upped to 3500Mhz and thus its' TDP rating has been upped as well. More speed with increased voltage equals more TDP. What does this likely mean? Well you are getting by with using more wattage than MSI seems to now describe as Okay.

So what to do:

1. Buy the fastest X4 processor you can buy and hope the Agesa code in the bios recognizes it and be reasonable in your DESIRE to push the processor and hope all remains okay as your overclocked 820 has been with more than 95W TDP since you are overclocking it. Chances of this working are about 65%. If I were to try this, I would get no less than a 965BE cpu.

2. A note here: If the VRM circuit blows it could take out the cpu and the board and not just the mobo.

3. Buy a good 990 chipset type board when the BD cpu comes out and we know more about what AM3+ boards are really the HOT setup.

So you see I did not even suggest to look for the few places that might have the OEM Locked 955 95watt variants, since that would make little sense with you already pushing your 95W Locked 820 beyond its' 95W rating.

By the way there were quite a few 955 Locked 95W processors available in the Asian market and were so because of the power grids in many of those areas. What was not clear originally was how AMD intended to market that particular processor and the changes made to it for the 95watt rating. Here in what was the affluent Usa, AMD apparently saw no real need to offer that derated 955 to the general retail market.

What would I do at this juncture? I would likely go with #3 above since a few more Mhz of cpu speed is not going to produce that much in 24/7 performance. Not for the cost and possible risk involved.

how in the hell you knew such this infos?? do you embedded phenom x6 in your brain RGone?? if its true...i wanna be like you too!!

What do I want to do???

Istariol said:

how in the hell you knew such this infos??

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How to know anything? 1000s upon 1000s of hours of reading and study of the market. More reading than writing. If I post something that takes me some 15 mins of writing to compose it was prefaced by more than likely 15 hours of looking and reading about the issue. That is one huge difference in time.

I study posters in forums. I learn them by reputation. I look for those that write; that are trustworthy over an extended time frame. No there is nothing wrong with a burst of enthusiasm over some new product but does sanity soon reappear in their posting?

Like most of the people in any forum that I trust, you will find that they do not have a real hidden agenda. They will say X is good if X is good, but they will also agree with Y being good if it is good. This really means that they do NOT appear to be a fanboy for something. They can flex with the equipment as the situation changes.

Then after a 'trusted' poster is recognized, I generally spend a great deal of time reading about how he/she suggests handling an issue. Note: issue does not mean a problem necessarily, but how that 'trusted' one looks at determining what is real or what is hyped and then possibly flawed.

There are many members of this forum who have skills. I mean they have done the time in the trenches to do things well when talking computers. I read their tutorials. Once, twice three times and then again. That is what it takes to get accustomed to the "jargon" about a system or situation. It is best to read for understanding and n0t to find someone who is inline with the theory I want to see come true for me.

Rather than write more and get too far off course, you can "know" when you spend great amounts of time, studying the poster that is helpful and describes the situation as accurately as possible. That is what was taught me some 15 plus years ago when I first entered forum usage. Otherwise for me it one big . Now back to reading for me. Luck all.

Thanks for all of the info folks. I guess I'll start saving my pennies and be happy with what I have.

.......wow