Choices , decisions, debates..My head hurts..

[Crazycanukk]

Here's is my conundrum.

To keep this as basic and not TLDR as possible i will be as brief as i can.

i am in the mood for an upgrade. its been a while and its time, well it was made time by an "incident" with my sons pc.

I play MMO's, FPS, RPG's and i enjoy Streaming to Twitchtv + video and photo editing (non-professional)

Choice 1:(this option allows an upgrade to Broadwell later)

Do 2 builds > 1 for stream encoding and i pc for gaming.

Gaming PC: 4790k, 16 gigs ram, 1tb ssd, 1 256g ssd , z97 mobo

Dedicated Streaming PC: i7 3770k < would buy

<already have :8 gigs ram, 1 256g ssd, 1 capture card(already have) no graphics card needed, already have mobo and ram>

**Cost as per NewEgg today with taxes and shipping $1,950.00**



Choice 2: ( no option to upgrade to Broadwell but i expect this build would last for 5 years)

1 beastly build to handle both Tasks.

Stream/gaming pc (some costs are assumed using data gathered)

1) 5930k 6 core (assumed cost $650.00 based on 4930k)

2) 16 gigs DDR4 ram $275.00 (based on fact pricing in UK for Adata ddr4 has been announced
http://www.kitguru.net/components/m...ally-sell-ddr4-memory-modules-unveils-prices/

3) x99 Mobo (assumed cost aprox $350)

4) 1 tb ssd 840 evo $500

other parts for upgrade will be reused from current system (psu, case etc)

**Assumed Cost w taxes and shipping: $2000.**

As you can see both builds are aprox same cost..but i am getting a headache about which build would be the best route.

I assume by talking with 4930k owners that the 5930k will be at least as good if not at least 20% better performing then the 4930k and should be able to handle gaming and x264 encoding as well as the 4930k i know does.

So anyone got an opinion or other suggestion?

as for my current system..its 3570k processor and other components will be used to build an HTPC and pc to stream STEAM games and via Nvidias streaming system as well to living room later in the fall.

Thanks for any input or expertise you can offer.

I am not open to AMD CPU's ...I know its "fanboi" ish..its just my preferences.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

On the first build... why are there two PCs? Just the 4790K setup would be plenty to stream and game at the same time.

What GPU do you have now?

 

[Crazycanukk]

On the first build... why are there two PCs? Just the 4790K setup would be plenty to stream and game at the same time.

What GPU do you have now?

Hi Atminside.

The 2 pc streaming set up is so sacrifices don't have to be made on either system to ensure quality in game or quality of the stream. A 4790k although VERY capable cannot do higher compression presets(fast to medium) when streaming AND process the game in the quality i expect on a 2560 x 1440 monitor (eg 720p @ 60 fps medium preset is very hard on a cpu and 900p @ 30 fps at fast is the same). Higher compression is desirable so it gives a better quality at the viewers end (as well as bit rate) . Going forward and we have already started to see and will see more game engines using more cores , Bf4 , witcher 2 , Deus ex as examples.I don't want to find myself sacrificing game quality to stream in a few years or finding myself building a streaming pc anyways ..


the second build has enough CPU overhead to handle both tasks nicely but lacks the possible upgrade path the 1st choice offers with Broadwell.

I currently run 1 780 gtx in my system.

 

[Robert17]

You are writing today, so go ahead and figure on Today parts, not end-of-the-year parts. DDR4 and Broadwell are still over the horizon as far as getting your hands on them. So if your need or desire is to build, work and play then go with parts that will ship this week.

Otherwise I did note your mention of a build lasting 5 years. I've never had that happen but then I tinker a lot. Following the tech may be something you do, but in 5 years you'll be way behind the curve, not being able to utilize much from today's rig in an upgrade at that time. It's changing that fast.

 

[Crazycanukk]

You are writing today, so go ahead and figure on Today parts, not end-of-the-year parts. DDR4 and Broadwell are still over the horizon as far as getting your hands on them. So if your need or desire is to build, work and play then go with parts that will ship this week.

Otherwise I did note your mention of a build lasting 5 years. I've never had that happen but then I tinker a lot. Following the tech may be something you do, but in 5 years you'll be way behind the curve, not being able to utilize much from today's rig in an upgrade at that time. It's changing that fast.

Broadwell for desktop is expected in late 2015..so it is on the horizon but Intel has stated the z97 platform will be used for that release..DDR4 memory has already started to hit market and Haswell E+ mobo's + ddr 4 memory is scheduled for release by Mid September (mere weeks away honestly) and Asrock and adata have already trickled out their X99 motherboards and DDR4 memory is already showing pricing from Adata as i linked to above.

My last build has lasted almost 5 years(an I7 970 and is still only being utilized at 40% maximum when gaming at best ) and will be passed onto my son since his system has died and the 3570k in my office will be moved to an htpc .


As for pricing i am using the pricing as is seen today. The Haswell e processors have already been costed out, the ddr4 memory price is starting to show up and motherboards can easily be assumed pricing as they have held very consistent for the last # of years...

I am using the 2 costs as comparisons and i will be within 10% of the release pricing for haswell e

 

[Daleon]

Most streamers on Twitch have much lower end systems and stream just fine.

Your GPU is a big missing piece from your dedicated gaming build. Think a GTX 770 4GB for ShadowPlay will do well or just invest in a dedicated capture card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/868951-REG/AverMedia_MTVLIVGHD_RECentral_Live_Gamer_HD.html

Or go big time

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618352-REG/Matrox_MCHD.html

Do your research though.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Sounds like using GPU encoding instead of CPU encoding is going to help you more than anything.

 

[Crazycanukk]

Yeah most streamers on Twitch have more lower end systems and stream just fine.

Your GPU is a big missing piece from your dedicated gaming build. Think a GTX 770 4GB for ShadowPlay will do well or just invest into a dedicated capture card.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/868951-REG/AverMedia_MTVLIVGHD_RECentral_Live_Gamer_HD.html

Or go big time

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618352-REG/Matrox_MCHD.html

Do your research though.

I have the capture card already (live gamer hd ) and i already own a GTX 780 that will be used in the new dedicated gaming box

The lower end systems streams, when you look next time,many are pixelated and less then attractive during high movement games and moments. The streamers with Very ood looking streams either use a 2 pc setup or a beast cpu that can handle both. there is a dramatic difference in the quality of the end product very often.

i will research that Matrox card though..that looks enticing..

 

[Crazycanukk]

Sounds like using GPU encoding instead of CPU encoding is going to help you more than anything.

did a lot of research into Nvidia encoding and using the Intel quicksync..

both are H264 spec which TBH look nasty on the viewers side..pixelated mess is about the only way i can describe the end product. Using the CPU is far better as it is encoding to the x264 spec which is a higher compression and Much better quality at the viewers end. Its unfortunate , and that would be a perfect solution, but the quality of the image just isnt there.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Does your software actually support multi-threaded CPU encoding? I've seen quite a few that don't.

My FX-6300 did 720p @ 120FPS without a hitch, but that was using all six cores to encode.

 

[Daleon]

You don't want to wait till late 2015 I think. DDR4 will be nice, but not until a while after release when the much faster stuff comes out. 2133? I wouldn't waste money upgrading to that. 4266? Hell yeah. Being an early adopter can be fun, I have done it plenty of times, but I am prepared to eat costs and upgrade often also. For a 5 year build its not recommended.

And a top of the line cpu\mb can last 5 years. My 920D still going strong, but not the whole system. New SSDs and Video cards and Ram have all been upgraded to keep it at the levels I like.

I have the capture card already (live gamer hd ) and i already own a GTX 780

So with what you already have you can't do 1080P@60FPS?
Considering what you have then I would probably just go with the first solution and two boxes.

 

[Crazycanukk]

Does your software actually support multi-threaded CPU encoding? I've seen quite a few that don't.

My FX-6300 did 720p @ 120FPS without a hitch, but that was using all six cores to encode.

I use the paid version of Xsplit Broadcaster and it does use every thread you can toss at it. OBS (Open Broadcaster can as well)

 

[ATMINSIDE]

I use the paid version of Xsplit Broadcaster and it does use every thread you can toss at it. OBS (Open Broadcaster can as well)

Just wanted to double check, it's commonly missed.

I would take option 1, simply because you won't get the same performance/dollar from option 2.

 

[Crazycanukk]

So with what you already have you can't do 1080P@60FPS?
Considering what you have then I would probably just go with the first solution and two boxes. I see no reason to get a 3770K though unless you are buying used or know a place its significantly cheaper than a 4790K. Could just go with an i5-4690K for the gamer box but since you want long term I would just get the 4790K for both.

The only reason i am going with the 3770k is i already have a Motherboard to put it in. The 3570k for the htpc will be going into a microATX board. I did some research and the 3770k can do very well as a dedicated stream processing cpu. It scores higher on cpu benchmarks then the i7 970 does... http://tinyurl.com/mthwl7a

My current setup is not capable of 1080 @ 60fps. TBH i wouldnt stream at that as many people cant watch that high a stream quality and the stream just buffers too much. 720 @ 60fps or 900p @ 30fps look great and open you up to a much wider audience.

Just wanted to double check, it's commonly missed.

I would take option 1, simply because you won't get the same performance/dollar from option 2.

thats true...and with the potential to take advantage of broadwell possibly late 2015 if it has any real benefits ..that would be a nice extra to the builds longevity.

 

[Theocnoob]

You want to go from an i7 970 to an i5 3570K? That's ridiculous. Just saying. You shouldn't do it. Very minor (if any) gains, and in some cases, a loss.. albeit a minor one. Seriously, don't do it. If you had a Bloomfield, sure, but a Gulftown? No.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

You want to go from an i7 970 to an i5 3570K? That's ridiculous. Just saying. You shouldn't do it. Very minor (if any) gains, and in some cases, a loss.. albeit a minor one. Seriously, don't do it. If you had a Bloomfield, sure, but a Gulftown? No.

He said the 3570K is going into the HTPC?

 

[Crazycanukk]

You want to go from an i7 970 to an i5 3570K? That's ridiculous. Just saying. You shouldn't do it. Very minor (if any) gains, and in some cases, a loss.. albeit a minor one. Seriously, don't do it. If you had a Bloomfield, sure, but a Gulftown? No.

The i7970 and mobo ,as I said a few times above I think, is going to my son whose PC grenaded..it was an i7920 in an identical motherboard (mobo) that I have. The 3570k is going into a micro atx mobo and being built into an htpc for the livingroom the wife wants....meaning papa bear...me....is soon to be without a PC.( I was planning on upgrading anyways this year, just not so soon)

So I have a perfectly good mobo and a 3770k would fit into it and do nicely for a streaming PC and maybe building a separate gaming rig as also explained above.

Other option is not buying the mini-atx mobo for the 3570k ..using the mobo its in for the htpc and build 1 big beast haswell e 6 core 5930k system in September that will game and stream for myself instead.

Hope that clarifies..