Help with ram selections

[Furyon]

Hi! New to the forum.
Looking for some help choosing ram for my next build.
Specs for Zen 2 build:
CPU: Ryzen 9 3950X
Motherboard: Asus Crosshair Hero VIII
PSU: EVGA 1000watt P2
GPU: EVGA 2080ti FTW3

I work as a contractor at AMD, and I've been told that 3600-3733mhz cl16 is the sweet spot for the 3950x.
I'm going for overclock/asthetics in this build. I'll be using the new corsair hydro x custom water loop. Naturally I would really like to stick with corsair ram so I can use the icue software. Specically the corsair vengence rgb pro series.
I'm completely lost on what ram to choose.
- (2x16GB)Corsair Vengence RGB Pro 3200mhz cl16
$179.99
-(2x16GB)Corsair Vengence RGB Pro 3333mhz cl16
$182.99
-(2x16GB)Corsair Vengence RGB Pro 3466mhz cl16 $239.99

I want to hopefully be able to achieve 3600mhz or even better 3733mhz at cl16 when overclocking.
I'm new to overclocking ram, so any tips on what ram to buy to give me the best chances would be greatly appreciated

 

[Woomack]

Corsair is known to cause problems on early motherboard releases and in general on various motherboards (mostly Gigabyte). It's a matter of luck but most problems with RAM and Ryzen platform reported on the OCF were actually because of incompatibility of Corsair RAM or other brands RAM from older series designed for Intel.
I'm not saying it won't work as ASUS usually delivers pretty good motherboards (especially from ROG series) but I wouldn't recommend it, especially that on the market are better options and usually in lower price.
In general, G.Skill works good and they have multiple 3600 CL16 memory kits from Trident Z / RGB / Royal series. I also like Ballistix Tracer and HyperX Predator but the first is not available above DDR4-3200 and is based on worse overclocking memory IC while from the second one I would grab DDR4-4000 kit which is quite cheap and has XMP at 3600 and 4000. However 3600 is CL17 so it will boot at CL18 or will require manual settings.

I guess some other guys will add something to the list.

 

[Furyon]

Man thanks for taking the time to respond. First time ever really being on a forum in general.

I've been considering g.skill, I'll definitely look into what they have. They do seem to have a much better price to performance ratio going on.

Do you recommend doing 2x16gb as opposed to 4x8gb to achieve 32gb? I've read that it's less strain on the imc with 2 sticks, but have seen others say otherwise.

 

[Woomack]

In general, 4x8GB is easier to OC than 2x16GB. It's more on the memory module side than IMC. For IMC, 2x16GB should be easier but again, higher capacity memory modules will OC worse.
In comparison, you can set 8GB single rank modules up to 4500+ (depends on chipset etc.) while 16GB dual rank modules up to 4000+ ... even though both can use the same IC. That's just an example as most memory modules won't run at this speed or IMC will give up.

In real if you are going to use this PC for gaming or any 24/7 work then it doesn't matter what memory you get. If you are going to OC for sport then you will need 2x8GB for the highest OC.
In games 3600 CL16 should be optimal but I have no idea how new Ryzen will OC. We can see support up to 4500+ on some motherboards but it can be only max possible but not stable like it was on some earlier series. Time will show and for sure I will test something in next weeks. I have 4x8GB and 4x16GB kits that I wish to check but I have no idea what motherboard I will be able to get for tests.

 

[Furyon]

Thanks Woomack, I really appreciate the help.
I have one more question if you don't mind.
I was also considering the two 4x8gb ram kits below. both are rated at a speed of 3600mhz, but the only difference appears to be the timings. the cheaper is set to 18-22-22-42, and the later being 18-19-19-39. Does the tighter timings justify the $90 increase? Will it be impossible to get either down to cl16?...ok two more question
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236554?Item=N82E16820236554
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236406

 

[trents]

In my opinion $90 more is not worth the difference in timings. The most important timing is the CL anyway as far as performance goes. But I would caution you to wait and see how Zen 2 actually handles RAM when it comes out. The $90 extra might certainly be worth it if it turns out the cheaper kit is incompatible and won't run at full frequency.

 

[Woomack]

Thanks Woomack, I really appreciate the help.
I have one more question if you don't mind.
I was also considering the two 4x8gb ram kits below. both are rated at a speed of 3600mhz, but the only difference appears to be the timings. the cheaper is set to 18-22-22-42, and the later being 18-19-19-39. Does the tighter timings justify the $90 increase? Will it be impossible to get either down to cl16?...ok two more question
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236554?Item=N82E16820236554
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236406

CL18-22 ... can be on any IC on the market so it can also be Hynix or Micron. CL18-19... will be almost only Samsung. Samsung based kits are more expensive as they are overclocking better and are often used in top series memory kits (the same IC in everything 4000+ and tight timings at 3200/3600).
Ryzen is scaling better with memory frequency than latency. Latency, in general, is affected by timings but also by frequency. We don't know how Zen 2 will be scaling above ~3600, but it's more or less improved Ryzen so I don't think there will be a big change, except that it will support higher frequencies.

Here is one kit from G.Skill but it was designed for Intel:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232484

As you see, most memory kits were designed for Intel, not AMD. Even series which are compatible with AMD were barely ever adjusted for AMD. Most have CL 14, 16, 18, 20 at default as Ryzen doesn't work with odd number CL. Simply when you get any CL15, 17, 19 memory kit then when you enable XMP then CL will work at CL16, 18, 20.

RAM prices are going down so you won't lose if you wait. I would look for 3600 CL16-16-16, 18-19-19 or 4000 CL18/19 as these kits should be still on Samsung IC and have additional OC potential. Also once you decide on the motherboard then check memory QVL to be sure that the memory you want was previously tested with that model. QVLs are not always correct, but it's a good base if there will be any issues with your mobo+RAM. I'm assuming there won't be any issues as mobo manufacturers already passed a long way with AMD BIOS tunning, but we can never know for sure.

HyperX Predator RGB is good, but in the US the price is high. In the EU it's one of the cheapest DDR4-3600 and 4000 which is on Samsung IC.

 

[trents]

CL18-22 ... can be on any IC on the market so it can also be Hynix or Micron. CL18-19... will be almost only Samsung. Samsung based kits are more expensive as they are overclocking better and are often used in top series memory kits (the same IC in everything 4000+ and tight timings at 3200/3600).
Ryzen is scaling better with memory frequency than latency. Latency, in general, is affected by timings but also by frequency. We don't know how Zen 2 will be scaling above ~3600, but it's more or less improved Ryzen so I don't think there will be a big change, except that it will support higher frequencies.

Here is one kit from G.Skill but it was designed for Intel:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232484

As you see, most memory kits were designed for Intel, not AMD. Even series which are compatible with AMD were barely ever adjusted for AMD. Most have CL 14, 16, 18, 20 at default as Ryzen doesn't work with even number CL. Simply when you get any CL15, 17, 19 memory kit then when you enable XMP then CL will work at CL16, 18, 20.

RAM prices are going down so you won't lose if you wait. I would look for 3600 CL16-16-16, 18-19-19 or 4000 CL18/19 as these kits should be still on Samsung IC and have additional OC potential. Also once you decide on the motherboard then check memory QVL to be sure that the memory you want was previously tested with that model. QVLs are not always correct, but it's a good base if there will be any issues with your mobo+RAM. I'm assuming there won't be any issues as mobo manufacturers already passed a long way with AMD BIOS tunning, but we can never know for sure.

HyperX Predator RGB is good, but in the US the price is high. In the EU it's one of the cheapest DDR4-3600 and 4000 which is on Samsung IC.

Woomack, did you mean to say that or did you mean to say "odd number CL"?

 

[Woomack]

yes, thanks ... I don't know why I said even , edited my post

 

[Furyon]

Thanks for the help, guys.
I'll take your advice and wait till after the ryzen launch to buy, and to check the QVL.
I've got my eye on these two below:
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb...iption=ddr4&cm_re=ddr4-_-20-232-492-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb...iption=ddr4&cm_re=ddr4-_-20-236-406-_-Product

 

[Woomack]

3600 CL16 is generally on the best IC right now. I would even recommend G.Skill Royal, but the price is way too high in most stores.

 

[Biggdogg]

3600 CL16 is generally on the best IC right now. I would even recommend G.Skill Royal, but the price is way too high in most stores.

Howdy, new on the forum and with fairly similar goal as the OP. Buying a new Ryzen setup shortly after reviews have been released, and will grab a 3900x probably, with a good x470/x570 mobo depending on what reviews say.
Currently looking to run 3600 or 3733 at good timings unless reviews show performance increase by going for really highly clocked memory.

Got my eyes on:

HyperX Predator 16GB ( 2x8GB ) DDR4-4000 CL19-21-21-? 1.35V - HX440C19PB3K2/16 - $240
G.Skill TridentZ 16GB ( 2x8GB ) DDR4-3600 CL15-15-15-35 1.35V - F4-3600C15D-16GTZ - $230
G.Skill TridentZ RGB 16GB ( 2x8GB ) DDR4-3600 CL16-16-16-36 1.35V - F4-3600C16D-16GTZR - $220

These are all Samsung B-die, and the price is basically identical. Which of the sets is likely to be the better binned one ?

 

[Woomack]

All are Samsung B but different IC. All of them are also great for overclocking. At least from what I was testing (it's not a rule as there is also a "luck factor"), HyperX run easier at higher clock but was harder to stabilize it at CL12 (for competitive benching only). It's actually the memory which let me to pass 5266. Only valid but hard to find any IMC which will keep stability above 4800. I have one Predator and one Predator RGB kit. All 4 sticks OC the same.

3600 CL15 will be on the best IC available but it's a really old memory kit and I have no idea how it will act on new Ryzen. It was released when TridentZ was available only in black/red.
3600 CL16 is about the same but on a newer IC (the same series, just newer batch). These newer series were harder to stabilize at 3600 CL15 1.35/1.40V so if there is a $10 difference then it's a no brainer and better will be to pick 3600 CL15.

Ryzen is scaling great with memory clock so even if AMD didn't change much but let it run at higher clock then we can expect better scaling than that of Intel CPUs. On the other hand AMD changed architecture so in synthetic memory benchmarks we can already see lower than expected performance. I mean write bandwidth in AIDA64 or in some other benchmarks. I have no idea how it will look at 4000+ and we simply have to wait a couple of days.

 

[Helgaiden]

I'm also looking for a 32gb RAM kit, ideally trying to stay under $400 cuz damn going down in CL rating really cranks the price up lol. Board is Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite, this is the memory QVL: http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x570-aorus-elite_matisse.pdf

These kits stand out the most to me. I do want them to light up since i figure i'll be spending this much, might as well get that feature too.
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232492
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232806

and for alot less, the Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro kit at c18 but 3600mhz comes up and i wonder if the overall looser timings on them is worth saving almost $200 on...
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236554?Item=N82E16820236554

Then a near step in price but also at CL17 but overall tighter timings than the Corsairs above, G.Skill trident RGB 3600 pops up again
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232484?Item=N82E16820232484 and i feel alot more comfortable about these ones. Reviews say they are b-dies as well.

I know its probably too early to tell, but hopefully some feedback on those would be appreciated

 

[Woomack]

since someone covered that then here is a link to some results (the difference is lower at higher display resolution):
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/4.html

Simply, there is no special difference. Tighter timings will show a bit better performance but not in all games ... average maybe 2FPS here or there what isn't worth the price difference between some kits.

Samsung B or Micron E, doesn't matter much as long as it runs at 3600. I still have to check how all my kits run on X570 but so far there are delays with motherboards so I have the CPU but no idea when I get any mobo.

All G.Skills at 3600 and CL16/17 should be still on Samsung B. Most at CL19/20 are Hynix so look at CL16/17 mostly because there is still some OC headroom while Hynix hits a wall at not much above 3600.

 

[Helgaiden]

since someone covered that then here is a link to some results (the difference is lower at higher display resolution):
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/4.html

Simply, there is no special difference. Tighter timings will show a bit better performance but not in all games ... average maybe 2FPS here or there what isn't worth the price difference between some kits.

Samsung B or Micron E, doesn't matter much as long as it runs at 3600. I still have to check how all my kits run on X570 but so far there are delays with motherboards so I have the CPU but no idea when I get any mobo.

All G.Skills at 3600 and CL16/17 should be still on Samsung B. Most at CL19/20 are Hynix so look at CL16/17 mostly because there is still some OC headroom while Hynix hits a wall at not much above 3600.

I saw that Snows with HardwareCanucks did some testing as well on the Boot Sequence youtube channel and basically 3600mhz CL17 was tied with 3200mhz CL14, and since both Trident Z RGB kits i was looking at that cover both those specs cost the same, i ended up going with the 3600mhz CL17 as it was recommended over the 3200 kit for all-around use, though for straight gaming only the edge was slightly to the 3200mhz CL14. I may try to bump the RAM to 3733 and then leave it at that. Shouldn't be too difficult right? They are suppose to be B-die as well.

 

[Woomack]

The best overall supposed to be 3600 at tight timings (without pushing other buses etc). I have no idea how it's acting (my X570 mobos stuck somewhere on the way so won't be able to check it till next week) at tight timings but the main problem with really tight timings was the motherboard and signal quality. For example most TridentZ 3600 16-16-16 can make 15-15-15 or 14-14-14 at lower voltages but there are errors on the motherboard side on popular Intel boards and most earlier AMD. For competitive benchmarking most users had to lower memory capacity to make it run in benchmarks so whatever you see at 3600+ CL12/13 probably had lowered memory capacity to 2-4GB. This is Windows adressing issue related to memory signal quality.
On the other hand, new TridentZ Neo designed for 3k Ryzen has on the list 3600 CL14-16-16 kit so there is a chance that the signal is better on these motherboards as Samsung B in earlier and the most popular revision is no longer manufactured (the one in most TridentZ kits in past 2 years). So they have really high binned IC from older series or motherboards simply can make more than everything what we've seen before.

 

[maxfly]

Newegg has some nice looking teamgroup xcalibur 3600 modules for $120. No idea what ics they run. The ddr4 4000 b die was 150 at amazon but they have sold out. Was going to nab the 4000 but missed them by a couple of days
Ocf did a review of the 4000 so all credit goes to them verifying the ics.

https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331221

 

[Woomack]

3600 will be B-die but lower binned. You can find reviews around the web, for example Tom's Hardware made pretty average review but their OC result was 4000 CL19-21-21 while only 2 IC can make that and afaik there is no brand which is selling Micron E in 3600+ kits besides Ballistix.

https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331248
this one has the same XMP and costs ~$80

or 4133 18-18-18 but I had this kit and it wasn't overclocking much past 4133:
https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331244

This one is B-die too:
https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820313712

Corsair 3600+ kits should be B-die too but cost some more:
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236497

G.Skill 3600 CL18/19 can be Hynix but they were changing IC so I'm not sure about the new kits.