How dangerous is DICE usage?

[PeterPwned]

You've already gotten all the info you could need for getting you started on your DICE adventures.
I can only reiterate what has already been said... Insulation, Insulation, Insulation. It is all about the insulation; as long as you protect the board from condensation you will be ok.

As far as killing stuff while on DICE...

I killed a Rampage Extreme within five minutes of my first time using it... It wasn't because of the DICE, or bad insulation... I removed the POT to replace the CPU and in the two minutes that the socket was exposed; condensation formed and when I fired her back up she took an early departure from the world of the living. People that were there for that night (over livestream) will remember it as the night when everything that might have gone wrong for me; did go wrong... Came close to destroying my pot and killed my REX... That night almost turned me off of benching for good, but in the end the bug remained and I am still here, freezing stuff.
Safe to say I have been much more careful after that debacle and haven't killed anything else... I do miss my REX though.

Ouch, that does not sound like I want to go through the same learning process

So you need to insulate the actual socket pins? Doesn't there have to be direct contact?

 

[EarthDog]

Nope. Check out some guides. Its not IN the socket, just around. I thought the guide here showed that? (I cant see pictures at work, sorry).

 

[TsunamiJuan]

I'll probably being a DICE run tonight, I will take some additional pictures of it for you. (it wont be a full strip down and setup, because I run phase change normally.

 

[PeterPwned]

I'll probably being a DICE run tonight, I will take some additional pictures of it for you. (it wont be a full strip down and setup, because I run phase change normally.

That would be awesome. Thank you.

Phase change also looks very cool, but I imagine building a phase change system is anything but easy.

Also - as I understand whenever you bench you need to take the mobo out of your case. I believe I read somewhere that if you screw the mobo to the case in such a way that the screws are very tight you can damage the board. Is it then a better idea to only screw in some screws/ use rubber stoppers for long term durability reasons?

Lastly, why do you need a thermometer when DICE benching? Afterall the temperature of DICE is -80 degrees so your CPU will never run hot anyhow.

 

[Seebs]

Ouch, that does not sound like I want to go through the same learning process

So you need to insulate the actual socket pins? Doesn't there have to be direct contact?

Don't worry too much; as long as you take the necessary precautions and don't rush things you'll be OK. The only reason I killed my motherboard was because I was distracted and forgot to dry it out after switching cpus. It was a "noob" mistake and I paid for it, but I learned my lesson.

As for insulation... people make it out to be harder than it really is. There are some guides... I looked for the guides we have here at OCF and most of the links to the pictures on them are dead so I went out and found another one for you...

Insulate your board with kneaded eraser

You can read up on the guide and look at the pictures... NO need to do the part he does after the picture of the board and the dog on the sofa... at least not for DICE.

Hop this helps...

Sebastian

That would be awesome. Thank you.

Phase change also looks very cool, but I imagine building a phase change system is anything but easy.

Phase change would be easier and harder at the same time... Easier because if you have a good phase unit you can do what we call "feet up benching"... Simply put; you can bench without having to pay attention to a pot or to DICE levels, etc.

Also - as I understand whenever you bench you need to take the mobo out of your case. I believe I read somewhere that if you screw the mobo to the case in such a way that the screws are very tight you can damage the board. Is it then a better idea to only screw in some screws/ use rubber stoppers for long term durability reasons?

For DICE/LN2 benching your mobo needs to be in a horizontal position as there will be a container placed on top of the cpu and that container needs to be vertical so it doesn't spill its contents...

Lastly, why do you need a thermometer when DICE benching? Afterall the temperature of DICE is -80 degrees so your CPU will never run hot anyhow.

DICE temperature is -78.5C, but that doesn't mean that the cpu will stay at the same temperatures all the time. You need the temperature probe to keep an eye on temperature swings so you can add more DICE as the CPU gets warmer... Yes even at subzero the cpu will get warmer (or less cold if you will) so having a probe will give you visibility to those changes and allow you to keep temps as close to optimal as possible.

The probe is not 100% necessary... I ran my first three or four DICE sessions without a probe at all and just kept checking the pot to make sure that the mix of DICE/Acetone was always in a nice thick slurry and never let the DICE levels get too low... But once I got my probe it freed some of my time to pay more attention to tweaking and less time stirring the pot.

 

[PeterPwned]

Do I need to insulate the socket if I don't plan on switching CPUs? Only have a 930 anyway.

Thanks for the guide seb. Good to know I can do without the grease, because that looks nasty.

Horizontal position? I could just lay the case on its back, that way it would be horizontal too ^^ No I get the point, because the back of the mobo also has to be insulated and the pot needs to be mounted, its very inconvenient to bench in a case.

Looks like I'll be getting a probe then as well.

 

[TsunamiJuan]

Pictures I Promised

Put them in there own thread, theres a good chunk them, along with some other things I did a little differently.

 

[Seebs]

Do I need to insulate the socket if I don't plan on switching CPUs? Only have a 930 anyway.

Thanks for the guide seb. Good to know I can do without the grease, because that looks nasty.

Horizontal position? I could just lay the case on its back, that way it would be horizontal too ^^ No I get the point, because the back of the mobo also has to be insulated and the pot needs to be mounted, its very inconvenient to bench in a case.

Looks like I'll be getting a probe then as well.

-- You don't need to insulate the socket (inside where the pins are) if you're not planning on switching cpus... And even if you do switch cpus; all you have to do is remember to dry the socket out before you start again.

-- You could probably bench with the case on its side, but that brings in a whole lot of other issues like you not having enough space to move around in there, or condensation forming anywhere on the case and killing your HW, etc. It's just much easier to take the board out and bench it in an open area.

-- Look up some used Fluke 51-Is on ebay... They can be found for a good price (or at least better than new)... Them things are expensive brand new.

 

[PeterPwned]

I've thought about this for a while now. Why do you need to insulate the board? The cpu pot is not wet on the outside, so no liquid can get on the board by dripping off the cpu pot. The only substance that can condense is DICE vapor. So if you place a large funnel on the cpu pot and insulate the area where the two connect, then technically all the moisture from the DICE vapor that condenses should just drip right back into the pot. Kind of like this:

http://www.abload.de/img/funnel5nax.png
Sorry for the low contrast, but Paint decided to crash on me and I had to take a screen of the darkened paint interface.

Additionally you could attach some sort of towel or mat to the funnel, thus closing the area between the funnel edge and floor as well. That way, theoretically, no evaporated vapor should be able to get anywhere near your components.

 

[Janus67]

The problem is that condensation can form on other parts of the POT, including around the bottom of it that touches the CPU, due to humidity/moisture in the air freezing, then when that melts/drips off you end up in trouble.

 

[hokiealumnus]

Water vapor in your room (no place has 0.0000% humidity, practically speaking) will freeze on the pot. There will be ice on the outside unless you're operating the system in a vacuum. It will melt as it gets farther away from the very cold pot itself (i.e. on the outside of your insulation).

You also need to insulate the board because the board itself can get cold enough for frost to form and subsequently melt. This water is not pure, non-conductive water - it is 'dirty' water that will short out electrical components.

The only time you don't have to insulate the board is when you have conformaled the entire shebang - but that's not possible. Even with conformal, the pros that do that still insulate their boards, just in case (you can't conformal RAM slots, MOSFETS and anything else that requires either heatsink contact or electrical contact.

Please just trust us when we say you need to insulate the board.

 

[PeterPwned]

Mmh yeah that makes sense.

Is conformal coating transparent? If yes then you should only have to coat every mobo used for benching once right? That way you would only have to use eraser to insulate MOSFETS etc. before each benching session.

 

[Janus67]

It is somewhat transparent but from what I've read it leaves a yellow/brown look behind it.

 

[Bobnova]

The stuff I use is slightly purple, but generally clear.