MacBooks are of Despicable Value

[SPL Tech]

I cant convince my GF that a MacBook is such horrible value. She's trying to buy a new 15" MacBook Pro and wants to spend $2,700 on a laptop that's basically just got a 500 GB SSD (which might not even be M.2, it's not clear as Apple doesent say), a 7820HQ, and some crappy Radeon 4 GB GPU and a 87W PSU. It doesent even come with basic 2400 Mhz RAM and instead comes with bottom of the barrel 2133 MHz. RAM. The value is absolutely despicable as I could easily buy a similar Windows 10 laptop for under $1500. Hell, the CPU and GPU isint even overclockable...

I just dont see how Apple is even able to stay in business, the value of their products is just so despicably poor. Someone help me convince her that this is not a good buy and she is getting ripped off in the most extreme sense.

 

[Daleon]

Tell her it doesn't even have a USB port!

Apple has billions in the bank not because what they sell is worth the price but because its not worth close to the price. PROFIT!
They have brand loyalty and devotion that's all that matters.

Has your GF used mostly MacOS's previously? If its what she's used to then I guess that is the only reason I can think of to get one. If not and she just thinks of it as the HIP thing to use then I would have her check out some Win10 models like the XPS 15, LG Gram, Lenovo Yoga, and Asus Vivobook and Zenbook if she wants portable power and style.

 

[SPL Tech]

She doesent like Windows and only wants IOS. I told her I can install IOS on a "PC." It's just an operating system.

 

[Janus67]

I agree that MacBook pro are a poor value, but the lower end models aren't that far off from comparable laptops.

If you can convince her to let you buy a standard laptop and install a hackintosh os on it for significantly less and guarantee that it works as well and gets updates and everything then I'd say give it a shot.

 

[Sentential]

I’d quit giving her flak, OSX is great and Windows is garbage. The value isn’t to too bad if you catch it on a deal like they’re running right not at BestBuy plus the resale value of macs are fantastic

 

[Alaric]

I’d quit giving her flak, OSX is great and Windows is garbage. The value isn’t to too bad if you catch it on a deal like they’re running right not at BestBuy plus the resale value of macs are fantastic

 

[knoober]

There is a Linux distro called Apodio that (to my eyes) tries to approximate Mac look and feel, comes preloaded with a bunch of graphical software also. I would boot a live disk, theme it to look like OSX real quick and see if she can tell the difference.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

+1

And I know quite well: I used to be a sales manager for Apple! Milk them all, let's God sort'em out...

 

[Sentential]

+1

And I know quite well: I used to be a sales manager for Apple! Milk them all, let's God sort'em out...

You can laugh all you like but my reasoning is sound. Not everyone has the time to sit and play with a system to get it working much like the Apple vs Android argument. Windows *IS* garbage otherwise you wouldn't see so many people still on windows 7 or going to Linux distros. Apple is a solid tier1 vendor both in terms of quality and design and their resale value is also good. Hypothetically speaking what is wrong with the OP buying one of the discounted 15" TB for around $1800 keeping it for 3 years and selling it back for about $1000. I've done that many times with my wife and step mother's Macbooks.

Hell it was damn near a miracle I got my AW13r3 set up between a 2 year old, one on the way and me being on call for a datacenter 24/7 with a major project being planned. I just don't have the time to play tech support for everyone and still have a little bit of time for myself.

All I'm saying is don't judge and give this guy bad advice, there is *nothing* wrong with Apple, him telling his GF that only sheeple buy Macs just because you guys have the time to make windows cooperate isn't going to go over well.

Have any of you actually used a Mac? Not gawked at one on a display but *actually used* one?

This link is for the OP:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1293726-REG/apple_mlh32ll_a_15_4_macbook_pro_with.html

I know they're expensive and not for everyone but if that's what she wants just buy it. At least this way it wont hurt the wallet as bad. As for specs Apple chose not to use DDR4 because of excessive power draw and is using DDR3L instead. Second it isn't a crappy 4 series AMD it's a full HD460/560 Polaris and is roughly equal to a 1050 which is appropriate for a very thin and light laptop that uses less than 85W which is remarkable. It also unlike windows gets a solid 9 hours of battery life and can game longer than my Alienware lasts browsing the internet on arguably the best screen money can buy QHD 120hz HDR panel

 

[Tír na nÓg]

I never messed with win10 to make it work... So I don't really know what you are talking about.

I am just saying that Apple is milking it's customers and they like it!

If I ever used a Mac?! I used to be their Apple store telesales manager for southern Europe, so I believe I both have used a Mac and know a little bit more about their sales policy than most people here... I was training the sales reps for milking... And about the margins (I won't disclose any info about that, as I still have very good friends including my former boss in the company)...

So, please, don't lecture me on Apple!

Edit: I got a 14", 1kg, last gen i3 Acer Swift for €600, and guess what? It has a 6 to 10hours battery life depending on what you do with it.

 

[Alaric]

Apple built an empire on so-so hardware at top tier prices. I don't find the ability to change and customize my OS to be *garbage*. What I find to be suspect at $2800 is what appears to be a 6700M https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ and questionable graphics hardware, paired with DDR3 and a golly gee whole 512 GB storage drive.

$2600 at Dell gets you this, with the GTX 1050 that beats out the Radeon 560.
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell...yJJZCI6IkZHMDAwMiIsIlByaWNlIjo1MC4wfV19XX0%3D

You want to pay a heck of a premium for an OS that treats you like a child, but hey, it's your money.

 

[Kenrou]

I don't think the problem is "only sheeple buy macs", simply that you can get better and cheaper on the "dark side" like Janus67 said. Here's a fun one year old comparison :

 

[trents]

We are talking about Macbooks and not desktops according to OP's first post.

10 best laptops for hackingtoshing: http://blazinglist.com/top-10-best-laptops-hackintosh-2015/

 

[Sentential]

Edit: I got a 14", 1kg, last gen i3 Acer Swift for €600, and guess what? It has a 6 to 10hours battery life depending on what you do with it.

My point is there are very few full i7 with a descrete card that pull close/over 10 hours on battery power, especially with a QHD/5k/UHD-HDR screen. Those that do exist are on par with Macs price wise. I understand you may feel that Apple is milking folks but for what you get assuming you aren't paying full price is at least of good quality. Plus unlike Dell and others their tech support are all US reps. Again I know *we* don't need any of that but a lot of people do.

Apple built an empire on so-so hardware at top tier prices. I don't find the ability to change and customize my OS to be *garbage*. What I find to be suspect at $2800 is what appears to be a 6700M https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ and questionable graphics hardware, paired with DDR3 and a golly gee whole 512 GB storage drive.

$2600 at Dell gets you this, with the GTX 1050 that beats out the Radeon 560.
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell...yJJZCI6IkZHMDAwMiIsIlByaWNlIjo1MC4wfV19XX0%3D

You want to pay a heck of a premium for an OS that treats you like a child, but hey, it's your money.

The OS for the most part is limited which a lot of people want, plus on certain items Apple is top of the line. When was the last time you saw any Windows based PC that used haptic feedback, or the fact that finger print readers are only now just starting to show up; or the fact that Apple/Intel created USB-C and Thunderbolt and NVME and were first to market on both; or all of the custom SOC designs they are making for the iPhone or how they are heads and shoulders above everyone in smartphone camera tech.

There is plenty of true innovation from Apple and it's OK to not like where their resources are spent and its OK to not buy one that's fine. I just don't understand all the hate for the people who do buy them other than the fact that they are "popular" and everyone is hell bent on being special and unique. To say everything they do is bad is factually wrong and makes you look foolish

I don't think the problem is "only sheeple buy macs", simply that you can get better and cheaper on the "dark side" like Janus67 said. Here's a fun one year old comparison :

First you're comparing a 2P Xeon with Quadros to an overclocked desktop, again two totally different uses and platforms. You should know better..... Plus there's nothing stopping you from buying a base iMac or Mac Pro and upgrading it yourself, they're all socketed and interchangeable. I agree that the trashcan isn't my cup of tea and I'd prefer an E-ATX style server but some people like the small form factor.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

My point is there are very few full i7 with a descrete card that pull close/over 10 hours on battery power, especially with a QHD/5k/UHD-HDR screen. Those that do exist are on par with Macs price wise. I understand you may feel that Apple is milking folks but for what you get assuming you aren't paying full price is at least of good quality. Plus unlike Dell and others their tech support are all US reps. Again I know *we* don't need any of that but a lot of people do.




The OS for the most part is limited which a lot of people want, plus on certain items Apple is top of the line. When was the last time you saw any Windows based PC that used haptic feedback, or the fact that finger print readers are only now just starting to show up; or the fact that Apple/Intel created USB-C and Thunderbolt and NVME and were first to market on both; or all of the custom SOC designs they are making for the iPhone or how they are heads and shoulders above everyone in smartphone camera tech.

There is plenty of true innovation from Apple and it's OK to not like where their resources are spent and its OK to not buy one that's fine. I just don't understand all the hate for the people who do buy them other than the fact that they are "popular" and everyone is hell bent on being special and unique. To say everything they do is bad is factually wrong and makes you look foolish




First you're comparing a 2P Xeon with Quadros to an overclocked desktop, again two totally different uses and platforms. You should know better..... Plus there's nothing stopping you from buying a base iMac or Mac Pro and upgrading it yourself, they're all socketed and interchangeable. I agree that the trashcan isn't my cup of tea and I'd prefer an E-ATX style server but some people like the small form factor.

Still have a 27% discount thanks to the EPP

 

[Kenrou]

We are talking about Macbooks and not desktops according to OP's first post.

If you can convince her to let you buy a standard laptop and install a hackintosh os on it for significantly less and guarantee that it works as well and gets updates and everything then I'd say give it a shot.

I was agreeing with Janus67 and making the point that there's more then just laptops.

First you're comparing a 2P Xeon with Quadros to an overclocked desktop, again two totally different uses and platforms. You should know better..... Plus there's nothing stopping you from buying a base iMac or Mac Pro and upgrading it yourself, they're all socketed and interchangeable. I agree that the trashcan isn't my cup of tea and I'd prefer an E-ATX style server but some people like the small form factor.

The point was value as per the OP's opening statement. 4000$ for a piece of Apple hardware that has less then half the performance of a $2200 M$ custom built. I DO know better. As many have stated before me, the laptops are roughly in the same situation. You can get it much cheaper and them Hackintosh it.

Or you can do like me and the wife when we get into an argument about buying stuff, i have my money, she has hers, as long as the bills get paid at the end of the month and the kids are taken cared of everything's gravy

 

[SPL Tech]

I’d quit giving her flak, OSX is great and Windows is garbage. The value isn’t to too bad if you catch it on a deal like they’re running right not at BestBuy plus the resale value of macs are fantastic

She got $300 toward the trade in on her old MacBook. She paid over $2000 for it a four years ago. Not exactly great resale value. She dident even get cash, just credit toward a new mac.

Anyway, this is not an issue of Mac vs PC, it's about what you're getting for the money. If you put aside the OS and look only at the system specs, you find you're paying a 75% premium. You can get a "$3000" Mac for more like $1500 on the Windows side in terms of hardware. That's the issue. I just bought a laptop that was $1450 and it is faster and more powerful than Apple's $2500 MacBook Pros.

 

[moz_21]

Is it her money? Is it what she wants? Has she use OSX before so it's familiar? Let her buy it.

 

[ihrsetrdr]

I wouldn't make this purchase a "right vs wrong" thing with your GF, it's a matter of preference. Domestic tranquility has a price though, so it's your call.

 

[Janus67]

She got $300 toward the trade in on her old MacBook. She paid over $2000 for it a four years ago. Not exactly great resale value. She dident even get cash, just credit toward a new mac.

Anyway, this is not an issue of Mac vs PC, it's about what you're getting for the money. If you put aside the OS and look only at the system specs, you find you're paying a 75% premium. You can get a "$3000" Mac for more like $1500 on the Windows side in terms of hardware. That's the issue. I just bought a laptop that was $1450 and it is faster and more powerful than Apple's $2500 MacBook Pros.

The problem is she is doing a trade in somewhere. In the used market (Craigslist, etc) I imagine she'd get much more.