Micro-ATX board....will 760g suffice?

[Helgaiden]

Hi guys how goes it?

So lately ive been interested in building a small living room gaming setup but don't want to spend too much money. Another idea fell through because of motherboard cost. So im back to thinking AMD. A microATX setup, or smaller really but microATX is fine, is what i was looking at, this using an FX processor like an FX-6300 or so, but sticking with nvidia for GPU.

Problem is, there are no 970 chipset mATX boards. Only 760g is all im finding. Will it really make a performance difference? This will be 1080p gaming. I dont plan on overclocking this setup.

Thanks for any help, folks.



something like one of these boards caught my eye...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130722

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Intel rules SFF. Period.

If you want to go with AMD, look to FM2+. Not AM3+.

Looking at a 760 chipset for FX is like looking at a smoldering ember and wondering when it'll catch the kindling next to it on fire.

 

[Helgaiden]

Well yeah i would prefer to stick with intel but i cant really justify the cost difference. The way i am with my money is that if it isn't in a price range i am comfortable with, i will simply not move on buying it. The only thing that might sway me is the Socket G2 rpga988b mini-ITX build i wanted to do building off my friend's dead laptop, utilizing an i7-3610qm and the existing ram from that system. Problem is, the motherboard needed for it is $200, and my buddy wants $150 for his dead system. So im at $350 for just the motherboard, CPU, and RAM. The part that almost has me okay with it is how unique it will be for something i would build. I love scavenging parts and making new from old. I however, do not like throwing money away. Especially since im working on saving for a new truck and need like a $12,000 down payment to get the payment down to a level i am comfortable with.


The lowest id be comfortable with building an intel system is an i5 based system, and those are almost $200 by themselves just for the one part. This is what i end up liking...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116895 (i5-4430)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157547 (ASRock h97m microATX mobo)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313429 (TEAM 8gb ddr3 1600)

total price with shipping for me ends up at $318 which ends up being close to the $350 it would cost to acquire my friend's stuff for a mini-itx build, which that price does include the case. Thus my current odd position.


On the flipside, heres an AMD micro-atx layout and the price difference is astounding (and yes, i know the performance difference would be better with the intel setup but i dont think it would be too huge, the fx-6300 keeps up decently well). Then at this point, i worry if the 760g mobo would hold me back at all, but so far from googling, it doesnt seem like that big a factor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113286 (FX-6300)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313429 (TEAM 8gb ddr3 1600 ram)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135361 (ECS 760g mATX board)

Total price shippedL $211.43. The price difference makes it hard to ignore. However, if i could find a way to buidl a small system using a regular ATX 970 chipset board, would it then be more feasible?

I end up looking at this motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128602

and total price comes out $224.64 shipped. I didnt really consider fm2+ because i dont feel the CPUs are all that powerful in comparison. Am i wrong? I have an i7/660ti gaming rig as my main setup so my bar is set a little high.

What do you think?




edit:
configured an FM2+ system using the new a10-7870k and total came out to $262.18. Would still be looking at adding a strong discrete graphics card though...hm..

 

[dyckah]

I've built 2 and apu systems now for friends and family, one was first gen, a8 3870k, one was fm2, A10 5800K, and both were surprisingly snappy, and worked quite well. The 5800k ended up putting a better discrete card in, (I think 280x) but even before doing that it gamed quite well. Newer ones can only be that much better.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

If you're planning discrete, go Athlon on FM2+.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

If you want to go with AMD, look to FM2+. Not AM3+.

Surely an FX 6300 will destroy any APU AMD has out now no?

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Surely an FX 6300 will destroy any APU AMD has out now no?

mATX =/= happy FX

 

[Helgaiden]

An Athlon x4 860k that is 95w TDP and from what i can find online, runs hot and gets outperfromed by an FX-6300 which has the same TDP and probably runs the same, possibly cooler (id put an aftermarket cooler on it of course). I dont understand what the advantage of the 860k here is aside from a better desktop CPU coming out for FM2+. Why is FX not happy with mATX?

 

[dyckah]

An Athlon x4 860k that is 95w TDP and from what i can find online, runs hot and gets outperfromed by an FX-6300 which has the same TDP and probably runs the same, possibly cooler (id put an aftermarket cooler on it of course). I dont understand what the advantage of the 860k here is aside from a better desktop CPU coming out for FM2+. Why is FX not happy with mATX?

FX is not happy with mATX, simply because nobody makes an mATX board that is really good enough for an FX chip

 

[Helgaiden]

FX is not happy with mATX, simply because nobody makes an mATX board that is really good enough for an FX chip

Well that i get, yeah. Any ideas why?



edit: found this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157582&Tpk=am3+

mATX 970 chipset board...

 

[RGone]

FX is not happy with mATX, simply because nobody makes an mATX board that is really good enough for an FX chip

Well that i get, yeah. Any ideas why?

The main reason they don't make one is that people who go mATX want cheapO and you cannot make a really decent but cheap AM3+ mobo that can handle the speeds of an FX cpu to 'try' but never catch up with even a cheap 4 core Intel cpu in gaming.

So Helgaiden, get the mATX 970 board you found and use it. Just do not expect it to hold up to serious overclocking to try and catch the Intel Cpus in gaming. At least it has a heat sink on the 4 +1 VRMs.

RGone...


EDIT:
This might be what you say with FX-6300 in gaming. And he even has his overclocked.

I thought the combo of this FX-6300 and the HD 6970 was going to be spectacular.
END EDIT.

 

[Johan45]

Surely an FX 6300 will destroy any APU AMD has out now no?

If you went per core performance at the same clocks the newer APUs have a better IPC than the FX. Here's what I mean


AMD
bassnut / A10-7850K @ 4707.67MHZ / H20 / 14 min 3.092sec
Johan45/ AMD 1090T @ 4.9/H20/ 14m 09.328
Johan45/ AMD 1090T @ 4853 / H20 / 14m 14.578s
bassnut / A10-7850K / H20 / 14 min 19.764 sec
Dr. McCoy/FX 8320/H2O/14m 23.735sec
Johan45/ AMD 1090T @ 4812 / H20/ 14m 26.719s
Johan45/ AMD 1090T @ 4741/ H20/ 14m 38.375s
bassnut / A10 7850K / H20 / 14m 38.732
PolRoger / FX-8370 / Water / 14m 40.075s
Scotty / FX-9590 / Water / 14m 40.406s
Scotty / FX-9590 / Water / 14m 44.359

This was taken from the december SPi32 challenge that had a 5.0 cap. If you notice the FX was still beaten even with a 300MHz advantage plus bones has some skill when it comes to Spi.Also of note is it beat the 1090T I was running with a 200 MHz advantage. AMD really has made some improvements with their chips. Still not the intel killer but finally has passed the PII.

 

[Helgaiden]

Dang you guys are making me regret selling an Phenom II 965be i had laying around.

So im wanting gaming performance that can at least float around 60fps on high detail at 1080p...how would an i3 setup fare against an FX-6300 setup for gaming then? Given the same graphics card, of course.

 

[RGone]

Very intersting read...

...The Ultimate CPU Gaming Benchmark Showdown 2014: Intel ‘Devil’s Canyon’ Vs AMD Vs Your Wallet

This series of data compilations is not so old as to be useless.

Just a few ideas since there are other system uses besides gaming. Well maybe not!!! For me there are other things I find equally important in computer use.

If one needed to edit or render 20 hours of video per month...the FX-6300 would be better acclimated with its' 6 cores.

The issue most of us overclockers find is that in too many video benches it seems the Intel with better IPC comes out the winner. And then we go to overclocking our FX processor to try and gain ground on the Intel cpus and 'suddenly' the FX processor becomes a HEAT monster and we need much better mobo and much better cooling.

Now according to the link above you can see "bang for the buck" performance. I believe I did read that in the article somewhere.

When you begin to consider the 'better' IPC of the Kaveri APUs, the FX-6300 pales a little.

Overall it would be very wise to check whether the games one plays are considered to be CPU or GPU intensive since a good video card is most important in a GPU intensive game and all the cpu needs do is not bottleneck the GPU. If the game were GPU intensive, then a pretty fast late AMD cpu would do well.

It is almost useless to try and compare AMD to Intel since the cpus mostly in REtail do not have the same design architecture. Somewhere the results will leave one shaking their head.

By the way you can do your own legwork by searching for i3 vs i5 vs i7 vs FX vs APU. Or any variant of those types of search terms.

There is one thing for sure. An entry level Intel cpu and a hefty video card should use less power at the plug than nearly anything AMD that can push a hefty video card.

One last thing I will say and building too cheap is a problem for me...I would go with an AMD FX-6350 cpu if decision to go FX was in the works since it has a faster stock speed and I do not want to give away any speed IF I am not going to overclock.

RGone...ster.

 

[Helgaiden]

Great post, rgone. Thanks. I indeed have been doing a lot of research into this, its something I've been wanting to put together since I bought my house 2 years ago. Not factoring tdp or temps, I've just been finding mixed results when it comes to the FX 6 cores and i3s and I always like getting more feedback from the pros here. Your link there has me reconsidering i3 now though. The graphics card I would pair with is likely an r9 270x because it seems to get great 1080p performance for the money. Not sure what nivdia has that would compete with it at the price, for about $150.

 

[trents]

For cheap gaming get a G3258 Intel on a cheap mATX motherboard and overclock the CPU. The CPU can be had for under $70 and the board for around $40. Look at the MSI H81M-P33. It has overclocking controls. Intel CPUs offer much better performance per core than AMD CPUs in the same price range and draw much less power. The latter fact is why you can get by with an inexpensive Intel-based mATX.

 

[dyckah]

For cheap gaming get a G3258 Intel on a cheap mATX motherboard and overclock the CPU. The CPU can be had for under $70 and the board for around $40. Look at the MSI H81M-P33. It has overclocking controls. Intel CPUs offer much better performance per core than AMD CPUs in the same price range and draw much less power. The latter fact is why you can get by with an inexpensive Intel-based mATX.

G3258 is only a dual core isn't it?. Should have at least a quad core for gaming these days, games are starting to come out with quad core minimum requirements.

 

[trents]

OP is wanting to do this on a budget. The G3258 when significantly overclocked will equal or exceed the many of the AMD APU quad cores. A lot of games do not use more than two cores very well anyway and so the greater per core performance of the G3258 is an advantage, at least when overclocked to the mid 4.x ghz range.

Check this out: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-b81-cheap-overclocking,3888.html

 

[RGone]

Going thru 'assigned' homework...

...studying for the test to come.

Okay you get to this link and you will find that this is a succesion of testing that began earlier with a Monster video card. Now they are using something a little more realistic. Bottom of the barrel motherboard and lesser video card. BUT the G3258 must be overclocked to beat a stock i3-4330 Intel cpu. One thing to remember is that cpus like the i3-4330 have hyperthreading and will do more real type work with the appearance of 4 cores vs 2 cores for the G3258. But if gaming is one's ONLY concern...right now the G3258 is viable option for very very entry level gaming.

Entry level users to need to get a grip on what this link and testing actually shows. They even do BF4 testing. Testing with AMD Athlon X4 750K was also done and now there is an AMD 860K out for use. Even faster.

JULY 29, 2014 12:00 AM Overclocking The Pentium G3258 Using B81 On A Budget

RGone...

Gone from computer for a while.

 

[trents]

Just this morning I ran the Cinebench R15 CPU rendering test with my G3258 overclocked to 4.6 and then with my i3-4150 and the scores were essentially the same. both in the 3.3-3.4 range. And the i3-4150 is going for around $120. the i3-4330 has a little more L3 cache and goes for around $140.