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No Steamroller non-APU?

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h4rm0ny

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
UK
I just read on Wikipedia that AMD wont be releasing a Steamroller FX- chip in 2014. Is this right? It's just going to be the current generation of Piledriver chips for Desktop all the way? I have a discrete graphics card so I don't see any benefit in an APU for myself. I currently have an 1100T and have been holding off until something worth upgrading to came out. If this is true, there's nowhere significant for me to go to until 2015, right?

Am I really going to have to jump ship to Intel if I want to upgrade this year?
 
1st Quarter of this year is a bad time to get such answer since it might be the Quarter that AMD does something. NOONE knows for sure but people at AMD and motherboard companies.

With a 6870 video card; you would do better to upgrade the video card anyway not a cpu. That 6 core Thuban is plenty really in AMD camps.
RGone...
 
Actually RGone, AMD made it pretty clear in November they won't be doing anything on the CPU front - at this point it is absolute that there is no path for AM3+ going forward. Their roadmap is doing nothing for desktop, and virtually nothing for server CPU's through 2014. Anything that does roll out is expected to be Piledriver based is my understanding.

I agree with your advice regarding upgrade path, I would take a Thuban and a stronger GPU to make that system last longer. Thuban is a very strong contender still against AMD's own newer offerings.
 
1st Quarter of this year is a bad time to get such answer since it might be the Quarter that AMD does something. NOONE knows for sure but people at AMD and motherboard companies.

With a 6870 video card; you would do better to upgrade the video card anyway not a cpu. That 6 core Thuban is plenty really in AMD camps.
RGone...

Oh I might well upgrade the graphics card, but I'm a programmer (at least I still do programming work sometimes) and I really want a bit more power. I also do some 3D graphics work (not gaming, modelling). I've stuck with AMD because I've always used them, but I'd really like to get a bit more oomph out my system. Dropping in a new CPU ought to do that, but over two years later on, I still don't feel I'd gain that much. It's a shame.

So it's worth holding on a little longer and seeing if they announce anything then?

EDIT: Just seen I.M.O.G.'s reply. Thanks for that. Sounds rather definitive. Hmmm. Well I know I can get some improvement out of Piledriver, but honestly it doesn't sound like I'd get much. I don't really know Intel chips well. Guess it's time to read up.
 
i suggested in a similar thread not too long ago, im thinking they are going to just switch to FM, and make some bada$$ APU's with the normal CPU cores in them "8c" cpus.
 
i suggested in a similar thread not too long ago, im thinking they are going to just switch to FM, and make some bada$$ APU's with the normal CPU cores in them "8c" cpus.

I hear what I.M.O.G. says and I hear what you say "wagex" and everyone keeps saying that APUs will be 8 core but I don't see it yet and maybe not at all. Heck the fast APUs already can be pretty hot with 4 vishera inside. I have not seen anyone saying Kaveri is much cooler. No performance enhancing L3 in any APU. So I don't see "badazz" in AMD's future anytime soon.

We are all just speculating greatly about AMD APU systems and for some reason I think AMD will still do steamroller desktop FX. Inner gut is what I am reasoning with currently. Yes, silly!!!

I am researching a socket 2011 board right now so that I can treat Intel overclocking like we used to be able to do on AMD side. i don't care for the sound of 'straps' for Intel Hazewell.
RGone...ster.
 
Intel's done it with Haswell-e chips, doesn't that mean AMD "might" *ehem* follow suit? They are competitors after all.

Yet, with the way AMD tends to be leaning, I'm not getting my hopes up. I plan on messing with Kaveri anyways so I'd be quite excited for anything really, including HSA.

Just hold out in general and wait for the product recycles (a.k.a. read up on stuff). There's bound to be interesting chips, boards, features in the next couple of months. That is unless you need it right now.

But I suspect you won't be needing it right now.
 
I hear what I.M.O.G. says and I hear what you say "wagex" and everyone keeps saying that APUs will be 8 core but I don't see it yet and maybe not at all. .
RGone...ster.

Agreed they can't even fit the two on die without another "successful" die shrink. Maybe in the year or so they have given themselves they might accomplish this.
 
Kaveri came out missing frequency targets as well. The APU stuff is where they need to be, but they aren't exactly hitting things out of the park in that area either.
 
The mantle stuff is sounding rather well received from talk I heard out of CES this week. Sounds like a really good thing and will be interesting if its embraced well.

@zephyr: As for the kaveri thing I mentioned, its clocks were struggling to play against the previous Richland from what I was reading. I did a quick Google for steamroller and kaveri frequency targets, and I got this article from November - it touches on some of these points and gives more detail:
http://mobile.extremetech.com/compu...-desktop-x86-chips-as-amd-doubles-down-on-arm
 
Seems strange that AMD would keep the desktop market stale for a year.

Will really get anyone on the fence to look into Intel.

Kaveri sounds interesting don't get me wrong but just seems like they are trying to play "copy cat" rather than improving on their current architecture which has been struggling to me.

I know it is still to early to tell if this is the case but what does everyone think about the lack of desktop in 2014? If this happens would it push AMD even farther behind should Kaveri not take off?
 
I'm personally looking forward to their Steamroller line on the FM2+, I don't think they have any interest in going further with the AM3+ or even bothering with an AM4 or whatever. Wouldn't surprise me if they release standard CPU's later on for the FM2+ like they did with the Athlon X4 on the FM2.

My concern with Intel is that they'll raise the price of i5 and i7's when AMD quit competing with those chips.
 
Seems strange that AMD would keep the desktop market stale for a year.

Will really get anyone on the fence to look into Intel.

Kaveri sounds interesting don't get me wrong but just seems like they are trying to play "copy cat" rather than improving on their current architecture which has been struggling to me.

I know it is still to early to tell if this is the case but what does everyone think about the lack of desktop in 2014? If this happens would it push AMD even farther behind should Kaveri not take off?

It isn't really early to tell, that's part of what I was attempting to be clear about. AMD produces road maps to set expectations for the press and investors (and internal staff so they know the plan). These road maps are executed against and they are accurate to the company's actual plans - this is the same for any tech company. If anything changes with the roadmap, it would be the release date - often times items on road maps slip months back due to delays. Nothing meaningful is ever added though.

I think its basically a concession that AMD no longer sees itself as a viable competitor in the desktop space going forward. I don't think its the sort of thing where they skip a year and come back next year... They have been consistently working on it for years yet the gap has been widening further from Intel, so investing more resources elsewhere couldn't do anything but make that gap accelerate further. I expect this boils down to the economics... If you have a wafer you can make a bunch of chips from, do you invest that wafer in building chips in a market you aren't competitive in and have no price power, or do you invest that wafer in building chips in a market where you have an advantage and have greater price power (the ability to dictate price, rather than being forced to discount in order to appear competitive).

Basically, AMD had to sell Bulldozer/piledriver at lower end Intel prices because that's where its performance levels were at - if they tried to sell it for more then review sites would pulverize the product. If APUs don't have stronger competition in the market, AMD has the power to dictate their price... They don't have to devalue their product to make it a good deal.

I don't like the way things worked out, however ultimately the speed of processor technology development is a product of monetary investment. AMD started by imitating Intel products on the cheap (at a time when processors weren't too complex to reverse engineer), and ended up being a really good option at times - but this locked them into playing Intel's game. At that point, all Intel had to do was throw money (engineers/research) at it until they advanced at a rate that drove AMD out of direct competition - AMDs only hope was getting enough market share so they could invest in staying competitive. They were never able to get their stuff together on that front, some of it due to the market, much of it due to business and management mistakes.

At this point, I don't think there is any meaningful future in AMD CPUs - not in the sense of new traditional desktop processors worth getting excited about. But the APU stuff could go somewhere, they are doing stuff in this area that exploits an advantage... If they execute well enough they could be able to continue investing in and improving it fast enough that they aren't squashed by an APU competitor as well.
 
Thanks IMOG for the detailed explanation.

Pretty sad to see AMD go the way of the dodo in terms of the CPU market. Guess on my next main rig update I will have to look into Intel. Sigh, outside of my folding rigs I thought I would never say that. . .
 
@harmony: your [email protected] is more than capable, as capable, at least, as a 8 cores [email protected].

The only "real" upgrade would be to move to a z87/4770K platform or (if it fits into your budget) a 6 cores/12 threads 2011 solution.

Thanks. I was looking at 4770K but actually my budget can stretch to a 4930K if I really want to. (Technically I could stretch to the 4960X but that's some absurd prices there!).

It's going to mean a full rebuild. Originally when I bought my Sabretooth 990FX board I was thinking it would see me through an upgrade cycle. Maybe a couple if I were lucky.

It's sad. I've been with AMD a long time and I prefer to support the underdog. I really like what they've done with the APUs as well - I see it as a very smart piece of maneouvering. But it sounds like I'm going to have to shift.

Ah well, I'd better go learn about Intel chips now before I buy mismatched processor and motherboard or something dumb. I really have paid so little attention to them over the years.
 
The PC universe is shrinking. In a few years the high end of what is left of it will only have enough space for Intel. AMD might survive by concentrating on APUs.

Both Intel and AMD are late in the game with the mobile device market. Even Intel might not be able to compete against ARM which has a big lead in that market. It may be too late for AMD to even think about entering that market.
 
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