PC4000 versus PC3200 Results!!

[Mike89]

I believe all five of those options make up the PAT. If those last two are not disabled on the Max3, it won't go above 240 fsb (or something like that) (that's just for the Max3 in general, I got that tip from this forum). The first setting is "Game Accelerator" and then there are 4 more settings below that.

So what's the 'cpc' you were asking about? And what other settings do you want me to list?

 

[Mike89]

BTW, here is an article that says just the opposite.

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1849&p=4

 

[lokicat]

Not as it seems

BTW, here is an article that says just the opposite.

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1849&p=4

This article keeps the memory timings the same and only change the speed for all configurations. How they dedicated an entire article on this is beyond me. Come on, it's not rocket science. If you keep everything the same and only change the speed of the memory of course the faster memory wins - duh!! Although interesting, it misses the entire point of this debate. If you compare speed and timings like I did, the results would be very different (e.g. 2-2-2-5 versus 3-4-4-8).

Your low memory scores are indicative of your 2-3-3-7 timings. In my score above, the lower speed memory was running 2-2-2-5 timings which is a significant difference. Try to the lowest timings with more Vdimm. If you are going to stay at 250/200, then get some BH-5 chips and you should be able to do 2-2-2-5 with F1 GAT easily.

One side note - my graphics scores are not default 9800 pro speeds. I forgot that I had left the core running at 400. But it was the same speed for all the tests I ran. Anyway, I was only interested in relative, and not absolute scores.

 

[melon_stunner]

Usually for my configurations I try to max out the CPU. If I can do that with low timmings and a high memory clock even better! Right now I'm at 190 FSB (3.42 ghz) using the 4/5 ratio which pushes my ram to 475 mhz at 2-2-2-6-8. I never knew my old stick of Corsair PC3200C2 could run at these speeds. Maybe I can get another stick and try to run dual channel.

BTW Larva, my PCMARK scores are lower than yours. I scored a 8425 on the CPU and 89XX on the memory at the same speeds. I guess my P4P800 is a bit slower than the IS7. I'm runing single channel though, that is why my memory is so low.

 

[Mike89]

I was runnng 2-2-2-5 at 3.4 gig (5/4 194 mem) but when I went up to 3.5 gig, 3dmark01 would crash half way through. Lowered the mem to 2-3-3-7 and everything was ok. I didn't try anything in between.

 

[lokicat]

Max3 is the problem

There's no way that your memory is the problem although changing the timings seems to have fixed the stability. Corsair XMS3500 runs 2-2-2-5 at 200 easily at stock voltage. Especially if you have Rev 1.1 like me (BH-5 chips). Max3 problems running 5:4 ratio is a common problem. You may want to try one of the beta BIOS (check Abit's forum).

Also try to up your VCore another notch and try VAGP of 1.6V or higher. Don't waste your time with Abit FAE support though. 99% of the time they'll tell you that you need a better power supply.

 

[Mike89]

I just went back into the BIOS and tried the 2-2-2-5 again. This time I upped the Vdimm voltage from 2.6 to 2.7. This time 3dmark01 went all the way through. I have the vcore to 1.5 volts (up from the stock 1.475 volts) and agp voltage at stock. Why would I want to up the agp voltage? What's that have to do with it? I'm running the PCI/AGP at fixed 33/66

I did get a small increase at 2-2-2-5 from 2-3-3-7:
3dm01 - 19381, up from 18882.
pcmark memory - 9994, up from 9954 (still trying to hit 10,000)
sisoft bandwidth - 5037, up from 4957 (at least I got into the 5000s)

I also still have the Game Accelerator to Turbo and cpuz still shows the Performance Mode as Disabled. I have heard that because I have 4 sticks instead of 2, that's going to prevent me from getting anything higher than Turbo. I believe all 4 of my sticks are 1.1

So you're saying that if I went to 250 memory at 3-4-4-8, that my scores would actually be lower, except for the memory scores? I assume you would also mean that my games would run slower instead of faster?

 

[gouda96]

I just went back into the BIOS and tried the 2-2-2-5 again. This time I upped the Vdimm voltage from 2.6 to 2.7. This time 3dmark01 went all the way through. I have the vcore to 1.5 volts (up from the stock 1.475 volts) and agp voltage at stock. Why would I want to up the agp voltage? What's that have to do with it? I'm running the PCI/AGP at fixed 33/66

I did get a small increase at 2-2-2-5 from 2-3-3-7:
3dm01 - 19381, up from 18882.
pcmark memory - 9994, up from 9954 (still trying to hit 10,000)
sisoft bandwidth - 5037, up from 4957 (at least I got into the 5000s)

I also still have the Game Accelerator to Turbo and cpuz still shows the Performance Mode as Disabled. I have heard that my 4 sticks is going to prevent me from getting anything higher than Turbo. I believe all 4 of my sticks are 1.1

yeah...that is one of those "small" increases. for 500 points people spend hours and hours toiling over the smallest things, for 1 or 2 points, but because all you did was change 3 memory settings it is a small increase. Huge increase, little effort.

I love how people post that anandtech thing every now and then...

 

[Mike89]

Well I posted the Anantech article because I have really been struggling to understand memory bandwidth (and it's practical applications) and trying to get as much info as I can to ascertain if running 250/250 was better than running 250/200. I was almost ready to do it until I read your thread. What really got me thinking about this whole thing was an article I read about memory bandwidth talking about how when you had an asynchronous setup, 5/4 for example, that the cpu only talked to the memory 4 out of 5 clocks so the cpu had to make up for that in speed. I know I probably didn't explain that quite right but I think you get what I was referring to. This got me thinking that, "hey I need to have it communicating 5 out of 5 so I need 250 memory to go with the 250 fsb."

 

[gouda96]

...

dropping down to 5:4 you loose less than 5% bandwith. This bandwith is just complete overkill anyway. With tight timings you make a huge performance impact. If you compare 1:1 3-4-4-8 to 5:4 2-2-2-5 you will see small drop in the worthless s-sanrda bench, and a huge gain in every other bench.

I have alreay explained this in like 50 other threads. Go find them and check out all the links that I have showing this. There isn't a question, or a maybe...it is simple fact.

 

[Recnelis]

Well to be honest to get an exact idea you could do a series of tests with the with the high bandwith memory and relaxed 3-4-4-8 timings and the lower bandwith at sharp timings put them both on a graph and see where they intersect performance wise and at wich point your high bandwith memory starts pulling away. If that FSB speed should be unrealisticly high the sharper timings will obviously give the best performance for most people.
As far as the abit ic7 max 3 goes in this picture the higher bandwith mem and 1:1 overclock seems to be better for it because of the unstability at (and here goes my spelling again lol) asyncronous (you know what i mean ) overclocking .

 

[gouda96]

...

Well to be honest to get an exact idea you could do a series of tests with the with the high bandwith memory and relaxed 3-4-4-8 timings and the lower bandwith at sharp timings put them both on a graph and see where they intersect performance wise and at wich point your high bandwith memory starts pulling away. If that FSB speed should be unrealisticly high the sharper timings will obviously give the best performance for most people.
As far as the abit ic7 max 3 goes in this picture the higher bandwith mem and 1:1 overclock seems to be better for it because of the unstability at (and here goes my spelling again lol) asyncronous (you know what i mean ) overclocking .

yes...if you buy a pos max3 you don't want anything but crap pc4x00 to go with it. Unless you get incredibly lucky the max3 pos will have a horrible bug where the 5:4 and 3:2 dividers cause serious oc'ing problems. There is also the great vdim bug. That mobo is an overpriced pos. If you buy a crap mobo, get crap ram for it, and waste as much money as possible (had 3 friends loose 15% restocking this pos when they bought it before everyone knew it had these problems )

 

[Recnelis]

There is a difference between posting your opinion and trying to insult people.

 

[lokicat]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but...

yes...if you buy a pos max3 you don't want anything but crap pc4x00 to go with it. Unless you get incredibly lucky the max3 pos will have a horrible bug where the 5:4 and 3:2 dividers cause serious oc'ing problems. There is also the great vdim bug. That mobo is an overpriced pos. If you buy a crap mobo, get crap ram for it, and waste as much money as possible (had 3 friends loose 15% restocking this pos when they bought it before everyone knew it had these problems )

When it comes to overclocking, 90% of what people say on these type of forums is just that - opinion. The only thing that can be called fact is your own personal OC'ing results with whatever system you have. I've definitely had my share of Max3 problems, but the fact is Abit RMA service is second to none and I'm confident that all issues will be resolved in due time. Afterall, OC'ing is not an exact science.

Keep in mind that most users tend to post negative experiences far more frequently than positives ones. Therefore to assume that most users are having problems with the Max3 is simply wrong. We need to give Abit a chance to respond to these reports. This is very similar to all those users that claim that the latest ATI 3.8 Catalyst drivers are somehow killing off monitors and cards. There's probably a few "legitimate" problems, but the majority are a reslult of mass hysteria.

Anyway, my opinion.

 

[pkrew]

Personally, I love my Max3 and wouldn't trade it. Second, Mike I would go higher on your memory voltage. Third, I find it interesting that everyone ignored what Larva had to say. His points are entirely valid. I use 3.2v and the timmings in the sig. At stock ( 378/338) the video card scores over 6800 in 3dmark 03 and over 50,000 in Aquamark. My system only runs 8mhz faster than yours so the difference must be in the memory timmings and it the GAT setting. If you could use GAT the scores for the corsair would have a clear lead over your pc4000 memory, which doesn't have a prayer of being set to these timmings.

 

[Mike89]

Well I think the Max3 is far from a 'POS'. It's the best mb I've ever had to date. Even with my overclock, I'm running a much cooler system than my previous A7N8X Deluxe with the 2800+. And this systems kicks the other all to hell.

I consider 3.5 for the 2.8C at 5/4 250/200 with 2-2-2-5 using 4 sticks of ram a pretty good accomplishment for any motherboard.

Using 4 sticks of double sided ram at any fsb higher than 200 automatically disables PAT which is unfortunate but this is not a Max3 issue (all motherboards will do this same thing), it's an Intel issue and because this only happens when overclocking, I doubt Intel will even address it.

This is undoubtedly why my scores might be a bit lower than comparable ones posted in this thread because I don't have the benefit of PAT going.

So the question still remains for me.

Stay at 250/200 with 2-2-2-5 timings (PAT disabled).

Get rid of two sticks and losing 512 megs just to get the PAT back.

Or go with 250/250 @ 3-4-4-8 (which means to lose some big time memory timings to gain some memory bandwidth, what's more important, that's still debated isn't it?) and spend over $300 for the ram to do that.

I have a rock stable system right now, contrary to the claim of the Max3 being a 'POS', so the logical decision would be to stay where I'm at. (of course us tweakers are not always logical are we?) Heh heh.

 

[pkrew]

I think you have a very nice overclock Mike. I wish I could get to 3.5G with my system. While your memory scores are lower I think you can see from what has been said here that your gaming scores dont seem to be suffering. Is your video card overclocked and is 3.2v stable on your max3. If it is have you tried that memory voltage to see if you can run 1/1 ratio with the memory that you have.

 

[Mike89]

When you say 3.2, I am assuming you are talking about vdimm voltage? Dunno what the Max3 goes up to on that but I don't think it goes that high. I did try 250 with my 4 sticks at 3-4-4-8 and raising the vdimm to 2.9. No go, beeps all over the place. Even if it would have done it, I would be kind of scared of that prolonged voltage on the ram. I believe the ram guy has said that 2.9 volts could ruin the PC 3500 ram if ran too long with it. You were suggesting turning it up to 3.2 volts? Whoa, that's a bit over the top isn't it? I think 250 would be a stretch even for 2 sticks, let alone trying it with 4 sticks (and I'm not going to get rid of two sticks and going from 1 gig to 512, no way, especially with the money I got tied up in it).

Dunno man, losing my 2-2-2-5 is kinda hard to accept. Know what I mean?

 

[Recnelis]

Alot of people using the BH-5 sticks say they are running it at 3.2 Volt since thats when it really shines. Personaly I'm not willing to run it over 2.8 It just seems a bit pointless to risk throwing away money burning a mem bar to be aroudn the same result in the end.

 

[Mike89]

Yeah I hear ya. 3.2 is where it really shines? I would be afraid it would be more like, "3.2 is where it really burns up". I see now that the Max3 does go up to 3.2 volts (I didn't even know that until I just looked)

That's a trip running ram at that voltage, I would be scared sh_tless! I don't have that kind of bread to take a chance like that. (hell I don't even have the kind of bread to have a system like I do, but you know how that goes).