perception of beauty and computer generated beauty

[KILLorBE]

Re: Re: perception of beauty and computer generated beauty

I knew most of it, but it was still a good read.

It was a experiment report on how different factors affected the performance of a model racing car.

I would love to read it.

 

[repo man11]

Good work Shiyan. Very interesting subject, but one that can easily anger people who don't like the idea of studying human behaviour the way you would ants or other animals.

For those interested in learning more, I'd suggest reading he Evolution of Desire, by David M. Buss, and The Sex Contract, by Helen Fisher.

The truth is that we Humans don't really understand our own motivations. What's worse is that very few people even try to examine the what and why of who they are attracted to.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Yes, this topic has a ton of sub-discussions it could inspire.

The most interesting for me though, is how these factors fundamentally affect everyone because they played a fundamental role in our development.

When mating was less of an extracurricular activity and more of a means of survival, aspects that we now just "find attractive" priorly served as characteristics that showed "health and desirable gene traits".

However as we have evolved further, and the general health level of civilization has increased, these factors became much less important and we rely far more on traits that have less to do with survival and more to do with personality and attraction. Yet the basic rules we evolved from can still easily be observed in our choices. It's really an interesting aspect of conciousness.

 

[shiyan]

just updated the first post with survey results from all the guys.

take notice question 3.

I should have my site up and running after this weekend.

 

[Banyan]

that is some interesting stuff... but i wholeheartedly disagree with anyone that puts the "face" last. the guys polled i bet weren't completely honest... what 16-18 yr old male puts the importance of the beauty of a girls hands priority #1. i really have a hard time with viewing any "high school polls" as valid.

 

[shiyan]

I agree with that. Face should be the most important, and it does come out pretty close to 1 for both guys and girls.

You have to realise that there are a lot of dazed and confused people running around in highschool.

taking that into consideration, I think the results of the survey were pretty good

 

[illwillchill]

for me......the perfect girl is.......

NATALIE PORTMAN *drools*

god she is soooooo perfect ( well i think so, not everyone thinks like i do )

I concur.

My avatar would be of her, but I just saw Kill Bill

 

[shiyan]

what a cutie pie!

let's see:
large eyes: check
long eyelashes: check
narrow eyebrows: check
arched and far from the eyes: check
pronounced cheek bones: check
narrow nose: check
sharp chin:check
short and narrow jaw: check
full lips: check
perfect facial symetry: check
nice skin: check
around 22 years old: check!

 

[Captain Slug]

I think the only thing missing from your points is the importance of proportion in the whole equation. You went over it briefly but your ratio was off based on national survey results

1:0.7:1 is the common result of those surveys
36/24/36 are the magical numbers but aren't ideal since the important thing is the proportion itself.

But all these points are moot if you've matured to the level where you find a person's personality to be their most attractive (or repulsive) feature.

 

[Krieger]

For all those who like to drool over NATALIE PORTMAN, my brother had a friend who went to harvard(she did go/goes there). She doesn't have a very pleaseant personality apparently.

That's about all I ahve to say about this...though the discussion is quite interesting... carry on.

 

[shiyan]

I think the only thing missing from your points is the importance of proportion in the whole equation. You went over it briefly but your ratio was off based on national survey results

1:0.7:1 is the common result of those surveys
36/24/36 are the magical numbers but aren't ideal since the important thing is the proportion itself.

But all these points are moot if you've matured to the level where you find a person's personality to be their most attractive (or repulsive) feature.

I agree with that. It is the ratio that is important. I should have made that clear. I remember that a lot of attractive women of different body mass indexes all had that ratio, from Venus of Milo to Marilyn Monroe to Kate Moss...

well, I agree that personality is important. but from a purely attraction point of view, it really is fine tuning. if a person is ugly you might never bother finding out their personality (and I think a lot of people are this shallow)

And I think someone's personality might be a variable, and might be linked to their appearance and other characteristics:

For example, take someone really good looking. He/She's been good looking all his/her life and knows it. Ever since childhood that person has been adored, so that person expects to be adored, which could lead to a "bad personality". Someone who has not been good looking all their life would have to work much harder to gain attention, and so ends up compensating for their appearance with a "good personality".

Maybe more interesting is the following: how a "nerd" changes his personality through life: as a "nerd" he studies hard in school and is made fun of by the "jocks" who don't study much. At this stage in life he is not very confident and has a low self esteem. After going through college and landing a high paid job as a lawyer, the girls are all chasing him (for his money partly). This guy's "personality" is transformed - confident, high self esteem, possibly a bit stuck up, whereas the "jock" might have not gone to college and continued working at a burger restaurant, not so hot any more.

What I described are stereotypes, but it is not impossible to find such examples in real life.

For all those who like to drool over NATALIE PORTMAN, my brother had a friend who went to harvard(she did go/goes there). She doesn't have a very pleaseant personality apparently.

That's about all I ahve to say about this...though the discussion is quite interesting... carry on.

it is possible that she might be hassled for autographs and kisses all the time , so that could be one reason for her bad personality. another possible reason is what I explained above.

 

[illwillchill]

For all those who like to drool over NATALIE PORTMAN, my brother had a friend who went to harvard(she did go/goes there). She doesn't have a very pleaseant personality apparently.

That's about all I ahve to say about this...though the discussion is quite interesting... carry on.

I enjoy her purely in the aesthetic sense, and in the context of what is known as "natural" physical beauty. Much like the topic of discussion here. I will never meet her in real life and I could care less about her personality, skills as an actor, her personal relationships, and her relations with the public/media . But, yeah I can see what you are getting at.

Inner beauty > Physical beauty
Inner beauty + Physical beauty > everything else

 

[Captain Slug]

And I think someone's personality might be a variable, and might be linked to their appearance and other characteristics:

For example, take someone really good looking. He/She's been good looking all his/her life and knows it. Ever since childhood that person has been adored, so that person expects to be adored, which could lead to a "bad personality". Someone who has not been good looking all their life would have to work much harder to gain attention, and so ends up compensating for their appearance with a "good personality".

Personalities are impossible to judge based on outward appearance since each individual has a different "ideal" of what a good personality is. They may or may ot emulate that ideal by altering their outward appearances. "Juding a book by it's cover" is impossible with people since most put up false fronts or have guards that prevent people from getting to know their real personality.
Even further, some people simply don't think of their personal appearance as an important priority. That doesn't make them slobs, but it will lead to others assuming things about them that may or may not be true.

Short of a diplomat or world-traveller, or news reporter, I've met a very very wide variety of people. Humans are not logical or predictable by any means. Even more peculiar a circumstance is that of individuals who (for reasons some phsychologists are baffled by) are attracted to others that don't meet any kind "norm" for being appealing.
So perception of the beauty of others is also affected by the observants perception of self-worth.

Psychology's weird huh?

 

[shiyan]

Psychology's weird huh?

certainly!

I agree that my previous post does not include all people, it just offers one reason of how a person's born appearance could have an effect on their "personality.

I guess the only thing you can say about someone who does not care for their appearance is that they don't care about their appearance!

I agree with you that it's impossible to tell what a person's really like inside just from their appearance, but sadly people make assumptions based on appearances all the time.

Although we can't tell very much about a person from their outward appearance, it would be going too far to say that one can't tell anything about a person from their appearance. Hormones have an effect on the way people look, and also affect their minds as well. Higher level of testosterone for example leads to intelligence, aggression, sexual drive and a whole lot of other stuff in males, and does have effects on a male's appearance. Something similar must apply to femailes, although I don't have any info on it at the moment.

 

[shiyan]

BIG UPDATE!

my website on attraction science is up! have a look at it under http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0324684/attraction/!

just found out that the page is only viewed properly in IE...

my Laetitia Casta page:

http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0324684/attraction/laetitia.htm

 

[repo man11]

I think the only thing missing from your points is the importance of proportion in the whole equation. You went over it briefly but your ratio was off based on national survey results

1:0.7:1 is the common result of those surveys
36/24/36 are the magical numbers but aren't ideal since the important thing is the proportion itself.

But all these points are moot if you've matured to the level where you find a person's personality to be their most attractive (or repulsive) feature.

But this research is really about finding the root cause of what makes people attractive (or unattractive).

Maturity cannot make a homely woman attractive. And none of us can really control who we are attracted to. We can control our impulses (whether or not we act on our attractions). But consciously trying to find someone attractive won't make it so.

I really wish that I could not care about physical beauty. Think how much easier it would be to base your choice of a companion strictly on their personality. There have been women I have known who were sweet and intelligent. But as far as my attraction to them went, they may have well have been a guy. I can have a great platonic relationship with a woman I do not find attractive. But never a romantic one.

For that matter, think how many gay men there are who would like to be straight so they wouldn't face a lifetime of discrimination and harassment. Actually, many do try to be straight, get married, have kids. But most eventually realize that they cannot change who they are attracted to, and decide to stop living a lie.

I think women atually get the better end of the bargain here, because they are not as visually oriented as men are. I guess any magazine rack will clue you in there. So they can find men attractive after they get to know them, even if they didn't initially. And statistics bear out that women do not find looks as important as men do.

Maybe someday, with the help of science, everyone will be pretty; so the choice of a companion will be based almost exclusively on the compatibility of the individuals personalities.

It would be a wonderful world. Until then I guess we're stuck with beer goggles.

 

[shiyan]

I'm not sure if there can ever be a situation where everyone is attractive.

What if the world only consisted of people like the top 1% in terms of physical attractiveness?

Would everyone be considered attractive? Or would people simply become more picky, as the average is so much more attractive than the present average?

Would an attractive person from a few thousand years ago be considered attractive now? Would an attractive person from now be considered attractive in a few thousand years?

I just realised one thing. We're discussing attraction, and yet there's not a single picture in this thread! Isn't that messed up!

So, here are 2 pictures from my attraction site:

Taken from the perfection page:
http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0324684/attraction/perfection.htm

Example of a near perfect face:

Example of a near perfect body:

 

[zabomb4163]

-her boobs are too big. they make her look disproportionate (fat)

 

[shiyan]

-her boobs are too big. they make her look disproportionate (fat)

I'm shocked!

Laetitia Casta's boobs are perfection.

although at 19.5 kg/m2 she's not a super skinny model.

She's disproportionate?!

 

[MaxiKana]

Purrrrfection