RAM: 667 OC'd to 706, 3:5, 5-5-5-15 or 800, 1:2, 6-6-6-12

[Wolfrequiem]

I'm not sure about the math of it and need advice about which to run (and if anyone wants to post a link, that's fine, though I have seen it worked out--I think Dolk has here for instance--and am just unsure of myself). If someone answers and can show their steps (that reminds you of being in school, doesn't it), I'd appreciate it.

Problem 1:

I'm running a Phenom II and have run into the controller issues that won't allow me to run 4 sticks of DDR2 at their rated 1066 Mhz. Has anyone overcome that problem? I'm running a x4 955 BE. I don't seem to see many that have, and no steps were given for those that claim they can run all 4 at 1066 Mhz instead of the 800 Mhz it defaults to (and this is an AMD issue, not a motherboard, bad RAM, etc., issue--AMD stated so way back).

Problem 2:

Resigned to the running the ram below specs, I wonder, which would be better: using the FSB on part of my CPU overclock to OC 667 Mhz Ram to 703 Mhz, 3:5 ratio, 5-5-5-15 timings (if I can OC it like that) or running 800 Mhz at stock 1:2, 6-6-6-12? I know we get caught up in "bigger, better, faster, more" sometimes, but feel like I have seen where, when the math is worked out, slower Mhz at lower timings is sometimes actually faster/better than faster Mhz at higher timings. (This is the part I am talking about walking through the steps of the math with.)

Something entirely different:

If you all could help me, I'd appreciate it. There is always the option of OC'ing the 800, I guess--OR maybe trying to lower it's timings???--but I seem to get instability trying ANYTHING over 800 Mhz, increasing RAM voltage and all. If that is a better option, or one you'd go with, please feel free to say so. ONE NOTE: If you propose trying the 800 with lower timings, do I need to somehow adjust the ratio, too, or is that an automatic thing between the RAM and BIOS (I see no option to do so, is you suggest it).

Thanks a million, in advance!

Edited: The 703 is correct, not the 706 in the title. And anything above that--say I use FSB to bump the 667 Mhz up to 767--the board defaults the RAM to the 800 specs. I'm not sure how much higher I could bump it before it defaults to running at 800, but I know it does at 750 Mhz.

 

[Johan45]

A few things would help here Wolf and welcome to OCF BTW.
Knowing what you're working with will help so some details on your parts please. Also post up some CPUz screen shots. CPU tab, memory tab and SPD would be enough for a start.
At this point my best gues as to why all 4 won't work together is 1. they're not matched ram so not all 4 sticks are the same or 2. the IMC needs a bit of voltage.

 

[Mandrake4565]

At this point my best gues as to why all 4 won't work together is 1. they're not matched ram so not all 4 sticks are the same or 2. the IMC needs a bit of voltage.

This was exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[Wolfrequiem]

Hi, guys! Thanks for replying.

And, no, I have 4 perfectly matching sticks of Crucial that check out with Memtest all right. As I was saying, that part of the equation is an AMD specific issue, as the intrawebz is full of complaints on it, including AMD's official recognition of the issue. For whatever reason, the memory controllers default on DDR2 to 800 and do not want to run 1066 without risking damage to the controller. On DDR3, it does the same thing, defaulting anything above 1333 back to 1333 setting. There's a lot out there on it, on both DDR2 and DDR3 complaints, and an occasional someone that claims that, after much hassle, they got it to work. I mean, there may be some, on some motherboards, that get it to run stock, but I have only seen complaints, if so.

Now if you run only 2 or 3 sticks... it'll run the rated speeds fine. That's the catch. It just doesn't want to push 4.

But I THINK I have a solution that's better than running at 1066 Mhz, anyway, given the JEDEC timings for this RAM at 1066. The trick is the math. I just wish someone would see this and verify my suspicion that lower timings on lower Mhz may indeed prove faster than faster Mhz and larger timings, and show the math.

Anyway, I apparently have a CPU cut from a bad batch of silicon, too, which is giving me issues anyway (even the most INCONSEQUENTIAL overclock requires hitting my voltage hard--it really sucks). So, I laid off the multiplier to cut down on voltage, opting to OC through the FSB, and, in doing so, OC'd my 800 Mhz settings to the following (in fact, the same OC below, using the multiplier or a combination of multiplier and FSB requires me bumping up the voltage even more than the 1.52 below--it SUCKS, did I mention that? ):

800 Mhz stock overclocked to
952 Mhz
5-5-5-15-20 Timings
No voltage increase over the stock 1.8V, stable

Wouldn't that prove better than 1066 Mhz at 7-8-8-25-33? That's the JEDEC for 1066, though I MIGHT, were I able to run it there, be able to lower the timings some. I'm actually about to post a new thread asking about any tweaks on this OC--like on HT or NB Frequencies--in case either of you pop in and want to chime in on it, as well.

 

[Wolfrequiem]

Could you double-check my OC and offer an tweaks if I need them. Thanks!

Pretty much what the title says. Below is my OC. I'm looking for advice, specifically--though you may see something else--on these two things:

1. Should I increase or decrease my NB Frequency? If so, do I need to increase voltage on it (I'm sitting at 1.325V for what you see).
2. Should I increase or decrease my HT Frequency? Is there voltage that has to be messed with for that, if so.

I just want the most seamless experience around the 3.8 mark that I can get.

Below are my CPU-Z specs. ****NOTE**** I'm not only running a C2 version of this CPU, I apparently have one cut from a BAD batch of silicon, as even the most INCONSEQUENTIAL OC requires me hitting the voltage HARD, as you can see. And the reason I went straight FSB on the clocking, if that matters, is I have to hit it even harder than 1.52V to get the same OC below, if I go straight multiplier or a combination of multiplier and FSB. So... that sucks, but I'm kind of stuck, as I'm not lowering it less than 3.8 Ghz, and I've spent weeks tinkering and tweaking to try to bring the voltage down, with no luck.

On an odd note, that I've never noticed before, I get random spikes in the Core Speed sometimes on CPU-Z, including spikes up to 3.9 Ghz on occasion at this OC, which is, undoubtedly, what necessitates the extra voltage. I just got a subpar chip, I think, though feel free to comment on that, too, if you think to.

Thanks for your help.

A P.S., if anyone can explain the math: the 800 Mhz RAM settings I'm running OC'ed at 952 Mhz, 1:2 ratio, 5-5-5-15-20 below is better/faster than 1066Mhz at stock, isn't it? (I can't run all 4 sticks at 1066 Mhz, anyway, apparently, as there is an AMD issue with the controller refusing to do so, and that's a pretty widely disseminated complaint, I checked; the same issue defaults all DDR3 RAM to 1333, too, from what I have seen out of AMD and others).



- - - Updated - - -

And I meant to say "please" in the title, but forgot. Sorry.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Looks good, have you stress tested it at all?

 

[Wolfrequiem]

Yeah, but only for a few hours. I was going to try to bump up the FSB just a TAD bit more and then run it all night (tonight, actually). So far, I've only run it 2-3 hours. Temps were good, though, and it didn't crash on Prime95 Blend. I seem to do okay on small FFT's throughout any of this, but then, on any OC, when I'd hit Blend tests, that seems to be when I'd start getting issues, and almost immediately (I'd probably have gotten them eventually on small FFT's, too, but I'd run it an hour on each pop, and then switch over to Blend). And never--or rarely--errors and workers shutting down, but crashes.

On that HT frequency, I'd never tinkered with it before, but I read a couple of places here, actually, that bumping it down some helps, so I tried it. That's the first time I've hit the NB frequency like that, either--that's why I'm unsure of those two.

 

[Wolfrequiem]

This was exactly what I'm thinking.

Keep in mind I'm more a noob than not: What would "IMC" voltage be? My mb only has five voltage options:

1. RAM
2. NB
3. SB
4. NB-CPU (I call it, I can't remember if that's what it is in the BIOS or not--THIS is what I'm thinking you're calling the IMC, that controls voltage to the memory controller???) This is the one I tie in to NB Frequency. You guys are probably running newer hardware that allows for a controller voltage option that I don't have, I don' t guess???
5. VCORE

- - - Updated - - -

Here you go, this is what my BIOS looks like (this is an earlier image and not this particular OC). "NB VID" is what I was calling NB-CPU. Is "NB VID" what you're meaning by IMC, or do I just not have the luxury of having that extra voltage option on this board?

 

[Mandrake4565]

Blend tests ram as well as the Cpu, if you're finding issues with it. It could be the timings on the Ram are too tight or the Imc can't handle the Nb being that high and/or it may need some more Cpu Nb voltage. You may also add a little voltage to the Northbridge volt control because you're using the Fsb to Oc, it may help.

As far as the Ht freq I've never had issues pushing my 955 with it around 2000Mhz give or take 100 Mhz. Though, my 955 is a C3 and a pretty good one as well.

 

[Wolfrequiem]

Lucky you! This was an in-the-pinch Ebay replacement for me (I had to have a mb, and it actually came with it, so I can't complain: I was running a dual-core 7850 KUMA beforehand, BE edition). The problem I am running to on yours and Johann's IMC voltage advice (this will read redundantly if you read the other post), is I don't have a separate IMC voltage controller. Here are the settings I have to work with, though this is **not** this OC above, but when I was trying to use just the multiplier. (And thanks for chiming in to help me.)

- - - Updated - - -

And that NB control in my BIOS you're thinking I might ought to bump up a little too?

Right now, my five read:

DDR2: Normal
NB: Normal
SB: Normal
CPU NB VID 1.35V
VCORE: 1.52V

I'd LOVE to be able to solve my problem with a bump on something that would let me bring that 1.52 down a notch, OR, if not, let me overclock a bit more if I had to leave it there. And I'm not going to lie, I rest a little uneasy at that voltage, as is, but I am determined not to lower the clock, if I can't get anymore out of it.

But, yeah, I've had more memory in play issues than anything, so I'm hitting Blend more times than I'm hitting small FFT's this go around. It seems like I can get most anything stable on small FFT's, but it's hitting Blend where my weaknesses show--and I honestly would hate to add up all the hours I've spent on this OC, experimenting with the various combinations, etc. I mean, wow...

 

[Wolfrequiem]

My temps are all good, though: I'm below the 62°C Max mark on it. Ironically, temps are normally the wall I hit. I've never seen the likes on my voltage woes here.

 

[Johan45]

CPU NB VID is the one you would want to increase. I also agree that 5-5-5- is a better setting that 7-8-8

 

[Mandrake4565]

I just realized that you are posting this on both of your threads, I'm going to see if we can merge them because you're going to get the same people helping you on both. It will just make it easier for us to be on the same page.

Now the IMC isn't a voltage, sorry I didn't make that clear. The IMC is the integrated memory controller of the processor, which basically controls the reading and writing or the DRAM. When pushing the Ram speed, timings and or Nb frequency just like the Cpu voltage may need to be increased in order for it to keep up. Increasing the DRAM voltage and or the Cpu NB VID may help if instability is being caused by any of those three.

You may want to read this guide directly from AMD View attachment AMD_Dragon_AM3_AM2_Performance_Tuning_Guide.pdf

 

[EarthDog]

Merged threads. Please keep the same subject (your overclock) to one thread. It will help all those involved.

 

[PetrolHead]

Dolk's guide mentions that 55°C is the maximum temp you should go if you're looking for a stable overclock that doesn't cook your CPU. The CPU-NB is located on the die itself, so I'd bring it down a bit and see if it helps.

"A P.S., if anyone can explain the math: the 800 Mhz RAM settings I'm running OC'ed at 952 Mhz, 1:2 ratio, 5-5-5-15-20 below is better/faster than 1066Mhz at stock, isn't it? (I can't run all 4 sticks at 1066 Mhz, anyway, apparently, as there is an AMD issue with the controller refusing to do so, and that's a pretty widely disseminated complaint, I checked; the same issue defaults all DDR3 RAM to 1333, too, from what I have seen out of AMD and others)."

I don't think there's a simple answer to this math problem. Some applications prefer higher clock speed, some lower latency, and many don't really care at all what sort of RAM you have. Anandtech has done several memory scaling tests which you might want to check out.

Btw, according to a chart I found (see attachment) you should be able to run all four modules at 1066 MHz, although there might be significant differences in the IMC between Deneb and Thuban processors. I read somewhere that at least the X6 should have an improved IMC, but I've no idea how it has been improved.