Send your 8800's back! GOD has spoken!

[aaronjb]

It'll be very interesting to look back 5 years from now and see which console had the better processor.

Problem is, that matters very little. What's important is the ease of development, facilitated by good tools and support from the hardware manufacturer. By all accounts, I hear developing for the PS3 is a real bear.

Plenty of good architectures have gone by the wayside because other forces - marketing, politics, etc. - dictated their failure. Even a great architecture can't overcome a lack of developer support.

 

[JU571N]

I'll respectfully disagree. I think he's being more realistic than publishers and developers who think that a DX10-only game is feasible in 2007, or even 2008. And I seriously doubt that the Carmacks and Sweeneys of the world are worried about the new "hotshots" - using a new API hardly makes one a hotshot. Again, it's about being pragmatic - Crysis may be simply over-the-top amazing, but is the average game consumer going to purchase a new, expensive graphics card to play one game? Nope. It's all about selling more copies.

Crysis isn't DX10 only.

 

[Hardin]

Problem is, that matters very little. What's important is the ease of development, facilitated by good tools and support from the hardware manufacturer. By all accounts, I hear developing for the PS3 is a real bear.

Plenty of good architectures have gone by the wayside because other forces - marketing, politics, etc. - dictated their failure. Even a great architecture can't overcome a lack of developer support.

Well part of what I meant is the ease of development. It could use the most powerful processor known to man but it would be useless if no one knew what to do with it.

 

[g0dM@n]

Crysis isn't DX10 only.

It's DX11.

 

[aaronjb]

It's DX11.

It's magic.

 

[UglyChild]

It's magic.

Its Pixie Dust.

 

[brakezone]

I think hes just talking pure sense in the face of all the DX10 hype and the way that gamers will be forced to buy vista and a really expensive video card to get it. DX9 was hyped but at least you didn't have to upgrade your OS to get it.

Do you think that the majority of the market is going to quickly adopt vista and a 500 dollar video card just to get dx10 games? I think he wants to develop games in the larger market from what he is saying. Also, when he was developing the doom 3 engine, nobody had to buy a new OS or video card to be a part of the market, by the time doom 3 was out, most cards would be able to run the game.

Thers alot of things he is saying that really only pertain to himself. Hes not telling other programmers what to think or what YOU should think or buy, hes telling you his way of thinking and providing solid reasons. Oh yeah and are any of you actively developing a direct X 10 multithreaded game?? NO? Okay so how about, are any of you developing dx9 games for consoles? I think that if every one of us rushed out to get vista and DX10 cards, we'd be buying into a whole lot of hype.

Here is a guy who, imagine if you could eliminate him with a time machine, you'd probably all be speaking german or only using roman numerals.

Oh, and if that was the case it would be called Direct X X

 

[fabulouscoops]

Here is a guy who, imagine if you could eliminate him with a time machine, you'd probably all be speaking german or only using roman numerals.

Lol, wasn't that a Star Trek episode?

 

[aaronjb]

Here is a guy who, imagine if you could eliminate him with a time machine, you'd probably all be speaking german or only using roman numerals.

Quote of the week!

 

[brakezone]

OMG

An episode of star trek with john carmack in it :O

I have seen the top of the mountain, and it is good.

 

[mepis]

It's a classic politcal arguement.

I respect Carmack greatly. he helped pioneer the whole idea od "3d" games. Without him computer games would probably be many generations behind still. Some of hiw views are right and some arnt so right.

Multithreading is a royal ***** to code for. At the same time if coders had the time, energy and money to sit down with their code more you could see fanitical improvements in processer usage that would make something like a 9800 be able to run FEAR beatifully. But they dont so they make up with it with more horsepower.

It still is a political business. You dont have the time or capitol to be able to enhance a game that much. The point of the business is to make a game look and run as well as you can to get the most amount of people to buy it for as much profit and lowest front end cost as possible. This is where a lot of Carmack's points come in to play.

And again it's a heavy poltical game. Linux is argueably far supperior to windows to the point that microsoft has been caught stealing samba code for its SMB protocol and a lot of boot subsystems for windows XP and Vista. But there isnt the support or funding or time to show the strengths of linux. Also it is entirely too complex for the normal user to go through to be able to type a school report and surf the web and manage their finances. I perosnally used a custom compiled system to utilize my sempron 3100+ with 64 bit extensions to its fullest because my carrer and life is working with computers. My dad bought his Nissan Titan because of the out of the way engineering that went into the adjustable timing differentials and he is also an auto mechanic.

To each his own poltical agenda. Neat lighting is nice but a utilized system is great.

 

[UglyChild]

Its not politics, its businesses. Thats how the rich people stay rich.

 

[brakezone]

I don't really see him say anywhere that 8800's are bad, infact he seemed to praise all the current video cards. He doesn't say anywhere what he thinks you should do, he only discusses what his plans are. What are you all dissapointed that one of the most famous game programmers is not planning on doing the exact same thing you are? He also said that once the market is there, that that is where he would be.

 

[Hardin]

We are disappointed that he isn't excited about Direct X 10 and is "happy" with dx9 It doesn't make since when looking at his past creations.

 

[brakezone]

I don't think hes talking about technological advancement, I think he means hes happy with DX9 for the current project he is working on. Also, why should he be excited about DX10 when, as he points out, microsoft is hyping a new API and forces you to move to a new OS for it. I guess we should all bend over for MS and scold game developers when they don't do what microsoft wants.

Maybe it just takes more to get the ol' guy excited? Maybe john carmack just expects a little more progress.

 

[shadin]

Back on topic, John Carmack sounds like a little baby. Seems like he's just crying because all this new tech makes things a little harder for him. Just because he can't keep up with new tech doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage it. Where would we be if everyone had this "Meh, it's good enough" attitude that John Carmack seems to have.

Saying that Carmack can't keep up with new tech is laughable. I rarely use the term for anyone or anything, but John Carmack is a genius. Pure and simple.

I agree with him that technology is moving too unnecessarily fast. I love new toys, but I feel that innovation is taking a hit in the meantime. Programmers with Carmack's level of skill not only make great engines, but they make them in a way that they use a minimal amount of hardware resources to get the job done. That's what throws him into the genius category for me (not to mention his past accomplishments for gaming). But instead of innovating code, the hardware companies are making it easy by just bumping last month's card up a notch, creating huge amounts of raw horsepower that really isn't needed.

There's still a lot that can be done with DirectX 9.0c, if designers are skilled and creative enough to innovate, and the fact that DX10 requires a new video card and OS (both expensive) for what will continue to be minimal improvement for some time dictates that he does have a point. It sounds like Quake Wars is going to be fantastic, and that he has once again made some really interesting innovations to use a minimal amount of video RAM for the most effect. When there's actually a need to move to a new API, I'm sure the man will do it. In the meantime, he's just reiterating what I've been thinking all along. Not needed right now.

 

[grayg]

Saying that Carmack can't keep up with new tech is laughable. I rarely use the term for anyone or anything, but John Carmack is a genius. Pure and simple.

I agree with him that technology is moving too unnecessarily fast. I love new toys, but I feel that innovation is taking a hit in the meantime. Programmers with Carmack's level of skill not only make great engines, but they make them in a way that they use a minimal amount of hardware resources to get the job done. That's what throws him into the genius category for me (not to mention his past accomplishments for gaming). But instead of innovating code, the hardware companies are making it easy by just bumping last month's card up a notch, creating huge amounts of raw horsepower that really isn't needed.

There's still a lot that can be done with DirectX 9.0c, if designers are skilled and creative enough to innovate, and the fact that DX10 requires a new video card and OS (both expensive) for what will continue to be minimal improvement for some time dictates that he does have a point. It sounds like Quake Wars is going to be fantastic, and that he has once again made some really interesting innovations to use a minimal amount of video RAM for the most effect. When there's actually a need to move to a new API, I'm sure the man will do it. In the meantime, he's just reiterating what I've been thinking all along. Not needed right now.

This is basically what I as trying to say with "the industry is ripping you off". Here is a developer openly saying to everyone hardware companys and microsoft are pushing things at you but what you have now is perfectly capable if you just give us developers a bit of a rest with all the new crap.

You should not be trying to insult Carmack for saying "you don't need this or that", you should be praising a software maker for sticking up for the end users benefit of saving money.