Vista NOT so "Capable" after all...

[mbigna]

If any of you have been keeping up with the class action suit over the "Vista Capable" moniker, you might be interested in reading these articles.

More and more of the sealed emails are being UNsealed, and they are painting Microsoft with a very unflattering brush.

Jim Allchin, who resigned right after the release of Vista, appears as the reluctant hero who warned against caving to Intel. HP is claiming they were harmed because they made the necessary investments to beef up their computers in order to be really Vista Capable. They had some measure of exclusivity that gave them a competitive advantage. Though, through the pleadings of Intel, HP had the rug pulled out from under them at the last minute when Microsoft lowered the minimum system requirements.

Lawyers want to depose ('to question', not 'remove from the throne' of MS) CEO Steve Ballmer. Ballmer's response--[Sgt. Shultz voice] "I knew NOTHING!" [/Sgt. Shultz voice]

http://www.computerworld.com/action...eBasic&articleId=9120299&source=NLT_PM&nlid=8

http://www.computerworld.com/action...eBasic&articleId=9120478&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

ya, but is it really MS fualt that OEM sold under powered systems.

 

[Albuquerque]

I'm glad we're having a discussion about the technical merit of the Vista operating system and finding that its' not so capable...

Oh wait...

< facepalm.gif >

 

[Hardin]

It's old news, what's done is done, let bygones be bygones, etc. etc..

 

[OldSkool]

Ridiculous imo

 

[Omsion]

Wait...why would Intel, of all people, want to lower the minimum requirements?

Higher requirements -> faster CPUS -> bigger margin on those sales.

 

[gangaskan]

ya, but is it really MS fualt that OEM sold under powered systems.

IMO its part MS and part OEM manufacturers


i'm sure the dells, hp's, and Compaq's knew lower end machines couldn't keep up with it, but insisted they sell the machines at their low end prices. Part of it is ms's fault for cutting off OEM sales of xp all together, however they band aided it with downgrade rights.

are you even allowed to downgrade a OEM by default other then dell? i'm not sure i havent had experience with any other manuf.

 

[TimoneX]

I only skimmed the article but it seemed HP had a real gripe if they can show monetary damage. Everyone knows (now at least) what a resource hog Vista can be, but it wasn't necessarily clear prior to it's release when HP had to get it's ducks in a row.

@Mr.Guvernment Isn't the term "underpowered" relative though? I mean a system that could capably run XP 32 can seem fine for general computer use, then seem like a total pig under Vista. Does that mean the system is underpowered or the OS is a dog?

I know my old Amiga computers always felt snappy under AmigaDOS and they were all equipped with almighty Motorola 680x0 processors if memory serves.

It will be interesting to see how this mess plays out. Most likely the lawyers will get paid and MS will get a slap on the wrist.

 

[Albuquerque]

I agree that, if damages can be demonstrated, it's valid.

My complaint is with the absurdity of the thread title. I could legitimately think of 37 different titles that would have accurately conveyed the issue without some dramatic "ZOMG VISTA SUX()RZ" fanboi-zealoutry in it.

But then, this wouldn't be the Microsoft Operating System forum if we didn't have people yelling at the top of their lungs about how bad Vista is, or IE, or Microsoft in general. There are plenty of legitemate gripes to have with all of the above, but it's obviously too much to ask to express those concerns in any sort of adult manner.

 

[MRD]

They all share some blame. Basically, Intel, MS, and some OEM's conspired to dump underpowered computers on consumers and call them "Vista-capable" when the companies all knew the machines were not.

Then again, I knew even back then that those machines were not really Vista capable.

 

[Ebola]

Remember the wording is "capable" not "useable".

 

[Trombe]

If they didn't dump so much crap on OEM installs (multiple anti-virus trials, etc) they might not be in this mess right now. Vista does run on those machines, but it runs very poorly when they're bloated all the way to hell.

 

[Albuquerque]

If they didn't dump so much crap on OEM installs (multiple anti-virus trials, etc) they might not be in this mess right now. Vista does run on those machines, but it runs very poorly when they're bloated all the way to hell.

It's not just Vista even.... I've seen a brand new XP32 SP2, Core 2 Duo 2.4Gig, 2Gb ram, 7200RPM 320Gb drive with an NV 8600GT desktop come from a vendor that took almost legitemately two minutes to boot from all the nagware, freeware, and adware that the vendor packs into it.

One thing I know Dell offers (or at least, used to...) was to send machines with zero preloaded software other than the OS and drivers for any of their XPS line. I'm not sure if they still do, but one of my coworkers bought an XPS M1330 that way and it was fan-effing-tastic.

 

[Ebola]

If you buy a business notebook or desktop you tend to have less junk too.

 

[MRD]

Then the businesses load it down with all their own junk... my father's C2D laptop takes 9 minutes to boot running Windows XP...

 

[th3]

Wait...why would Intel, of all people, want to lower the minimum requirements?

Higher requirements -> faster CPUS -> bigger margin on those sales.

It wasnt about CPUs but for integrated graphics, they wanted laptops with Intel IGPs to be Vista capable and could not get their new IGP ready in time for Vista launch. Would have been a big problem for Intel if ATI/Nvidia was a requirement to be Vista capable, unacceptable for the biggest IGP manufacturer in the known universe.

 

[Archer0915]

It is all a bunch of BS I mean Major BS. These companies want to jokey for position and market share (this is the American way) but dammit they dont want to deaL with it if something doesent go their way. F*** the customer it is all our bottom line. I mean get with it if any of them have a prob with MS let them use Linux. Point is to trust any of these technology companies is stupid (bugs and botched releases). Besides most of what HP makes is S*** in a pretty package. Point is MS wanted to sell the OS and get it to marketand Intel has the market share of current desktop home users tied up. I think MS made a good business decision.

 

[TimoneX]

I've little doubt MS made the decision that resulted in the greatest value to their shareholders. On the other hand if what is alleged turns out to be accurate then they did screw HP over to bend over backwards for Intel. It's business and this stuff happens all the time, that doesn't in and of itself make it unworthy of investigation or punitive action if HP had some sort of agreement with MS that they breached. I'd simply rather not see a pack-o-lawyers make a killing while tying up the court system and weakening all the companies involved dropping beaten down stock prices further. Let's face it, historically Intel & MS shares are at rock bottom levels given their history of making $$$ in nearly any environment. These companies didn't get the market cap & profit margins they have by playing nice, but there has to be some kind of oversight or repercussions when someone gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

 

[Archer0915]

I do concur with that for the most part, moreover lets level the playing field and say that there really needs to be truth in advertising and that if MS had not lowered some standards that it would have impacted more than just Intel and that Vista capable would have probably read Vista capable but you aint gonna be happy. It was a little underhanded to do what was done but the question is how much did HP know and let slide (Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead). Lets face it most Vista capable PC's are barley that way.

 

[Omsion]

It wasnt about CPUs but for integrated graphics, they wanted laptops with Intel IGPs to be Vista capable and could not get their new IGP ready in time for Vista launch. Would have been a big problem for Intel if ATI/Nvidia was a requirement to be Vista capable, unacceptable for the biggest IGP manufacturer in the known universe.

<---
Should have seen that one, especially considering my disdain for Intel IGPs...