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what is the best board for dual xp cpus

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hehe i got em round the wrong way eh cmcquistion :)

from amd here
http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Processors/DevelopWithAMD/0,,30_2252_873,00.html

"Primary 66-MHz, 64-bit/32-bit PCI bus interface
Secondary 33-MHz, 32-bit PCI bus interface "

its impossible to deviate from the chipset specifications as its built in before MSI even gets the board, and the config on all MPX boards is essentially the same regarding the 64bit PCI slots.
 
thank you guys for the heated discussion on the board but i think im going to get the msi board
 
LMAO!


I'm sure you'll like it.

I just noticed in your sig that you have an Abit KG7. The Abit KG7R was the best motherboard I ever had. The MSI K7D Master is my new favorite. As stable as my old Abit, but extremely fast.
 
HotKoala said:


Yea, useless 64/66. They still are 64/33. It's a limitation of the whole chipset.

Northbridge->PCI are run on 64/32 bit at 33MHz. That gives 133MB/s for 32bit PCI and 266MB/sec for the 64bit PCI.

Basicly what you have is a 64bit 66MHz PCI capable slot that can only do 64bit 33MHz.


Any linkage to confirm this? As far as I understand, the complex architecture of the MPX chipset has 533MB/s buswidth to the Northbridge shared between three points: two PCI-slots slots of the 64-bit/66MHz bus and the Southbridge on a 32-bit/66MHz datapath:

From the Southbridge runs the secondary 32-bit/33MHz bus, the IDE ports, USB and etc.

I have never once seen any claims that the 64/66 are actually 64/33.
 
That's not true.

I had my 66MHz/32 bit RAID card in the 66MHz slot and I know it was running 66MHz, because I had 150 MB/s throughput. If it were limited to 33MHz, I would have topped out at 133 MB/s.

The 66MHz/64 bit slots are capable of running at 66MHz/64 bit. They are also capable of running 33MHz/64 bit, 33MHz/32 bit, and 66 MHz, 32 bit. It all depends on the card you have installed in the slot.

If you put in a 33MHz/32 bit PCI card, that is compatible with 66MHz PCI slots, but only runs at 33MHz, then the whole bus (ie. both slots) will slow down to 33MHz. If you put in a card that is a true 66MHz card, whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit, it will run at 66MHz.
 
I just want to clarify that the 64 bit bus always runs at 64bit whether the fitted card is 32bit or not. You can fit 32-bits down a 64-bit bus :). I guess I am trying to say that the 66/64 slots only run at 66/64 or 33/64 depending on what card is fitted.
 
Chaintech 7kdd its mpx (http://www.chaintechusa.com/products/socketa/7kdd.htm) it seems to sell out every time it hits pricewatch there one minuet gone the next sells for $200 if you can find it I don’t have it myself but have heard good things about it on the web (usb 2.0 and it works off the board)
Anyone here use it? the pic off newegg shows it with 2 short caps on the lower socket and chipset heat sink
7KDDB.jpg
 
I have never seen any mention of a 32bit 66MHz PCI slot on the MPX anything.

Listen one more time. The PCI slot is keys for and can run at 64bit 66MHz. The actual thru'put is limited to 64bit 33MHz because that is what the bus runs at.

One 64bit bus and one 32bit bus. They both run at 33MHz.

Go on. Take out your 64bit 66MHz SCSI raid cards and try getting more than 266MB/sec. It won't happen.

As for the southbridge, it runs at 32bit 33MHz. But on the K7D-L you can't even get the onboard IDE to transfer more than 30MB/sec. Other MPX chipset mobo's don't have this problem. I'm having a hard time with my SCSI's getting the bandwidth I need.

I have two K7D-L's. At first I thought it was just a defective mobo but upon my second one it was just how the mobo was.

Yeah..it's great if you want to brag about having duals and do 150FSB with them..but for real dual usage I wouldn't reccomend it. Heck, the BIOS doesn't even have an option for which PCI slot should boot up first.

Those are about the only complaints I have. As far as stability goes, it's ok. No major problems. It's great for those who otherwise run uniprocessor systems and want an entry-level dual tryout.
 
HotKoala said:


As for the southbridge, it runs at 32bit 33MHz. But on the K7D-L you can't even get the onboard IDE to transfer more than 30MB/sec. Other MPX chipset mobo's don't have this problem. I'm having a hard time with my SCSI's getting the bandwidth I need.

I assume you know that the IDE and SCSI bus's are completely seperate...
 
I have never seen any mention of a 32bit 66MHz PCI slot on the MPX anything.

Listen one more time. The PCI slot is keys for and can run at 64bit 66MHz. The actual thru'put is limited to 64bit 33MHz because that is what the bus runs at.

One 64bit bus and one 32bit bus. They both run at 33MHz.

Go on. Take out your 64bit 66MHz SCSI raid cards and try getting more than 266MB/sec. It won't happen.

I don't have enough hard drives to reach 266 MB/s, but as I mentioned earlier, I can get 150 MB/s with a 66MHz/32 bit card in the 64 bit slot. Now, my RAID card is a 32 bit card, not 64 bit. If the slot was incapable of running at 66 MHz and would only run at 33 MHz, then the best I would be able to get would be 133 MB/s. That's not what I got. I got 150 MB/s, because my RAID card WAS running at 66 MHz.

As for the southbridge, it runs at 32bit 33MHz. But on the K7D-L you can't even get the onboard IDE to transfer more than 30MB/sec. Other MPX chipset mobo's don't have this problem. I'm having a hard time with my SCSI's getting the bandwidth I need.

As I mentioned earlier,
Disk throughput on my WD hard drive on the onboard IDE controller is normal, as well, topping out at around 49 MB/s.
This is normal for this particular drive as is far above the 30MB/s ceiling that you are claiming.

Here is the source of the confusion:

I did notice, when benchmarking, that when I placed my RAID card in one of the regular 33MHz/32 bit PCI slots, that my bandwidth was very low. This is due to latency and is an issue with EVERY MPX MOTHERBOARD EVER BUILT! It is a chipset issue, not a motherboard issue. The primary IDE controller, however, is not affected by this issue, neither is the 66MHz/64 bit PCI slots.

If you are having problems with your controller, it is probably because you are running it in one of the 33 MHz/32 bit PCI slots, or possibly due to the WindowsXP/SCSI bug. Try moving your controller to one of the 66MHz slots. Even running at 33 MHz, it should alleviate the problem, caused by latency.
 
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cmcquistion said:


I don't have enough hard drives to reach 266 MB/s, but as I mentioned earlier, I can get 150 MB/s with a 66MHz/32 bit card in the 64 bit slot.


Not sure, how you get it. Unless the drive was just copying to itself. But still it sits on a 64/33. I didn't make it up. Look at the MPX spec sheets.

If you are having problems with your controller, it is probably because you are running it in one of the 33 MHz/32 bit PCI slots, or possibly due to the WindowsXP/SCSI bug. Try moving your controller to one of the 66MHz slots. Even running at 33 MHz, it should alleviate the problem, caused by latency.

Have a screen cap? I wasn't getting more than 25-30MB/sec steady on the primary IDE. If you're using a PCI card IDE controller on the 32/33 it could be the same. I wasn't getting more than that with a SCSI controller and I thought it was me. Then I moved it to the 64bit slots and it got a little bit better.

I'm using my SCSI RAID controller on the 64bit PCI as it is a 64bit card. This is the *only* board I have the problem with. Both I have here. Yeah, I know WinXP has a horrible SCSI problem. Made worst by the chipset. Admittedly Win2k is quite a bit better, but not as good as the controller would otherwise push.

BIOS 1.03 BTW. Unless the 1.05 BIOS made miracle fixes.

And I still don't like the fact that I can't choose which PCI boots up first. Anyone that uses multiple controllers would see why.
 
I have already explained about the 66MHz/64Bit bus and also asked for any linkage to proof of your claims and I have yet to see any. FYI, according to AMD's tech docs on the MPX chipset, the followings features apply:

AMD-760™ MPX Chipset
The AMD-760™ MPX chipset represents AMD's highest performance two-way multiprocessor core logic solution for the AMD Athlon™ MP processor. Intended for server and workstation class system designs, the AMD-760 MPX chipset offers MultiProcessor eXtended performance beyond its predecessor — the AMD-760™ MP chipset. This feature-rich, high-performance core logic solution consists of the AMD-762™ system controller (Northbridge) and the AMD-768™ peripheral bus controller (Southbridge). The following features are provided:
  • Two-way multiprocessor system design supporting AMD Athlon MP processors
  • A 266-MHz Athlon system bus, offering data transfer rates of up to 2.1 GB/s
  • A 266-MHz (PC2100) Double Data Rate (DDR) memory interface
    AGP-4X interface
  • Primary 66-MHz, 64-bit/32-bit PCI bus interface
    [*]Secondary 33-MHz, 32-bit PCI bus interface
  • AC'97 Audio Interface
  • EIDE storage interface supporting ATA-33, ATA-66, and ATA-100 modes

There is no way I am going to take you seriously unless you provide some proof of your claims :rolleyes:.
 
Here is a screenshot of my WD drive test results from ATTO Express, a utility designed to test the throughput of hard drives.

I don't have any screenshots of my RAID array. Unfortunately, I just traded the RAID card to Caffinehog, for a motherboard.


BTW, Hotkoala, what benchmarking software are you using for your hard drive performance measurements? What kind of controller are you using, what kind of hard drives and how many? What other motherboards have you tried this setup on and how did the measurements differ? Were any of those other motherboards dual AMD boards? I don't think I've ever owned a motherboard that let me choose which PCI slot I wanted to boot from first. Most boards have a set path that they follow, like 6th PCI, then 5th, then 4th, and so on, sometimes in the reverse order. Boot priority is determined by PCI slot placement, relative to other PCI cards.


EDIT: Seems I was mistaken. My ECS K7S5A lets you pick which slot has a SCSI card installed (and presumably which SCSI controller you want to boot from.) Not sure the feature works, but it's there.
 
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My SCSI performance is actually quite good under WinXP on the MPX chipset. I am using 2x Atlas 10K III's in a RAID0 array and get ~100Mb/s which is pretty much spot on what I'd expect from those drives:

iwill64dyn.gif


I suggest that you do a little research before putting together a system of this type.
 
cmcquistion said:

BTW, Hotkoala, what benchmarking software are you using for your hard drive performance measurements? What kind of controller are you using, what kind of hard drives and how many? What other motherboards have you tried this setup on and how did the measurements differ? Were any of those other motherboards dual AMD boards? I don't think I've ever owned a motherboard that let me choose which PCI slot I wanted to boot from first.

I used a whole bunch. All except atto. All those that came with sandra, systemmark, PCmark, and a couple others. Most of the time my moving 300-500MB sound files back and forth. It should not take 15-20 mins on RAID for a 500MB file.

I use seagates. I have everything from their old 7 lbs 5400's to 15000 RPM drives over the last 4 years. My IDE is whatever I get from CompUSA. I don't care about IDE enough to pay attention. I'm pretty sure that they should not be topping out at 25MB/sec tho'.

I'm comparing to an ALi Magik1, an i850, a BX, another MPX, and a i860. Of course the only valid 64-bit PCI comparison would be from the i860. This admittedly was my first AMD dual, not that I had many choices. I waited around for MP things to be fixed before I went ahead with it. Prior to I was all Intel duals.

No, not all dual mobo's let you choose which PCI booted up first. Only the real ones do. The ones that have no overclocking options, and voltage options..et-c.

The problem is that not all PCI cards are the same size. My raid for example uses SDRAM. The older 32-bit only used EDO. Regular SCSI controller I use for my drives and CD-changer has nothing. But to position it in a way to the cables don't get in the way of eachother is rather hard if you can't choose which to boot up when. That and my soundcard like to hog the bus so I can only put cards in certain places.

I always thought it was due to WinXP and their horrid SCSI performance. But moved the server to a Win2K system is still wasn't the same as before. Sometimes I swear my 100Mbit LAN transfers faster than the MPX from drive to drive on the same mobo.

I haven't tried the Powerstrip thing to change my latency, mostly because I won't be bothered by it. Some got a slight improvement others barely any. Wasn't worth it to me.

As of now I'm using 6 10K's in RAID5 on this rig. 3 15K in RAID-5 as the file server. Random 7200 and 5400 drives singles for storage.

Mayhaps I'm the only one on crack or have badluck. My 2nd K7D-L from Newegg looked like someone returned it. The only good they do for me is convert/resampling musique in mass quantities. I stand by what I say. Bandwidth still hurts. For someone who just wants to do GAH/FAH in the background while using their computer as they would a uniprocessor otherwise, it's fine.
 
Please download and try ATTO. ATTO is designed to do only one thing, and that is to test the throughput of hard drives and arrays. It may identify some weak spots, or target which drives are having problems. If it does nothing else, it will confirm your suspicions. Open it and change the default test file size (4 or 8MB) to 32MB and run it on all of your drives. Then please report your findings.
 
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