Holy )"* £285 to make a copper block!?

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

Well in an effort to find an engineering firm in England that would make my block design (just a one off) I found one company and it looked promising.. but this is part of an email I just got from them! :

Alex

Price for machining 1 off small copper part is £285.00 Delivery 2 weeks.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

!!! All the block needs is a CNC mill with a 1.5mm bit, nothing else... The raw copper alone probably only costs about £5 MAX.. Hopefully some of the other companies I contacted will have a nicer offer..... !!

Cathar · Feb 10, 2004

Gotta say, that sounds about right for an off-the-street cold job by a professional engineering firm.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

Hm, perhaps.. but I don't need ultra accurate perfect prototype quality... Any suggestions as to what I can do?

Diggrr · Feb 10, 2004

That price is right. Despite the fact that you don't need super precise machining done, they are still doing it on a machine that's well over $10,000 if not $100,000. Someone's gotta pay for it...

On the other hand, do you have a college nearby with an industrial arts program? They often will mill one off projects to give the students experience in running the machinery, and copper is one project they don't get to show the students how to work with often. One local college here offered to do one for $50 plus the copper, which I'm tempted to take them up on.

Hint: Talk to a teacher or student, not an administrator.

FizzledFiend · Feb 10, 2004

hell for that price your bed better getting your own mill @ drill. Found some online for as low as 300 USD

slater3333uk · Feb 10, 2004

Unfortunatly that is about right.

I dont think many people can reconize the work that goes into making a one off block. CNC makes no differance as you still have to do all the calculations and it takes quite a while to program.

Last time i made a block it took me well over 3days of machining time and im not relly inxperianced or anything. Thats alot of man hours to pay for.
My dad runs a small engineering buisness and has to charge about £18 for every hour he spends working on something just to cover the overheads.

Finding a collage that may be willing to do it for you sounds like a very good plan.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

I will look into the college idea.. my school can do it with aluminium, but I would MUCH prefer copper

Calvin-N-Hobbes · Feb 10, 2004

If your school can machine it in aluminum, they should be able to machine it in copper. It will just require an adjustment of the feeds and speeds programmed, and possibly depth of cut if it is a very small/weak CNC machine.

!!! All the block needs is a CNC mill with a 1.5mm bit, nothing else...

LOL. That's all, huh? If you can do better, buy a CNC mill and go into business for yourself. Or at least go visit a shop and see how difficult machining really is. It'll humble you, and you just might learn something.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

The max depth is 8mm... The problem with the machine is that it has no coolant system....

I agree that if it can do aluminium then it should be able to do copper.. the problem is convincing them of this.... At the moment they want me to make a foam model then do lost foam casting with copper... but I'm not convinced that this will produce acceptable results.

Another problem is finding copper bar in the UK that is the right size (about 60x70x10mm is what I need)... This project is a lot more difficult than I first thought it would be

Calvin-N-Hobbes · Feb 10, 2004

Lost foam will likely not give you acceptable results. However, if you machine it out of wax and investment cast it, you should be fine. Is that an option?

Diggrr · Feb 10, 2004

Without coolant, copper will quickly gum up the bit and cause it to blast chunks around the shop.

If there's a well around the vise on the mill's table, you can rig up a 2 litre pepsi bottle for a gravity feed cooling system (unless you like mopping alot). Getting coolant is the next problem...

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

It might be an option, I will need to ask them about getting some wax in.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

I did think about using a reservoir or something to put the copper in to keep it cool.. the problem is the machine itself. It has no well and is mainly suited to foam tasks, it is by no means industrial.

Even a simple reservoir of coolant would spray everywhere around the machine.. probably making it extremely unhappy and messy.

Rokk1972 · Feb 10, 2004

machining aluminum is very ez compared to copper. Machining copper without coolant will just gum up the endmills (especially small ones) and take FOREVER to complete, and also you will have a very poor finish when (if) you finisihed the cuts.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

Ok, if I go for making it with the machine at school then it will have to be aluminium.. which is not BAD, but not great... I will see what I can do about getting in some wax and doing some investment casting. Trouble is I'm not sure if the school even has the facilities to do that properly..!

Diggrr · Feb 10, 2004

Ah well.

Maybe you can make a Swiftech type block (only better

) with an aluminum top and a flat copper bottom. It only takes a drill press to make dimples and bolt holes...

Any annodizing shops nearby?

There's also sand casting that would only require sand for the mold and heat to melt the copper. You can model your block on that school mill from foam to impress into the green sand.
Just a thought.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

I will also look into that

Anodizing can be done at home.. I will just need a fair amount of practice.

Diggrr · Feb 10, 2004

You could also make a plexi topped version on that mill, with NO corrosion possibilities.

Shadowcat · Feb 10, 2004

The top is going to be plexi, that part is fine... the radiator however is copper tubing..

JFettig · Feb 10, 2004

I have personally had more problems machining aluminum without coolant than copper, aluminum tends to want to bond to the tool.

Also, what on earth are you gonna do with 8mm deep channels? You typically cant machine more than 3x the diameter of the end mill. And typically you dont even want the channels 3x the diameter of the end mill.

That price is really cheap I think if your going 8mm. A lot of time goes into those blocks. Lets say if you could get one for that price, guess how much 2 would cost? the second one would cost probably £50 more. Thats just how it works, the cost includes machine setup and programing.

I will soon have my machine completed, shoot me a PM.

Jon

Holy )"* £285 to make a copper block!?

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