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  1. #1

    Ivy Bridge Temperatures - It's Gettin' Hot in Here

    Why is Ivy Bridge so hot? Ask that question and you are likely to receive one of two different popular (but not entirely correct) answers. Today, we reveal the true reason behind this hot topic.

    ... Return to article to continue reading.

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  3. #2
    Registered gutlessVADER's Avatar
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    I'm glad somebody took the time to explain all that. I'm planning on buying a 3770K around December, so I'll definitely be keeping up with Intel's statements. They've already publicly stated that Ivy Bridge runs hotter, though, so I can't imagine them switching to a better heat conductor after already publicly denouncing their CPU's ability to stay cool. Maybe TIM is cheaper, and they've decided that with AMD out of the picture they can do whatever the hell they want.
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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    I didn't want to wander too far into the weeds within the article itself, but I want to mention as well about delidding. Many people know it can be dangerous and easy to kill a chip that way. However people often forget a challenge with making contact with the die - if you delid, you may need to modify the socket/socket retention clip to ensure the base of your cooler can contact the die, as without the IHS the chip will ride lower on the motherboard. Just a note for anyone who may follow up with further testing on this.
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    It's also important to note that those who air cool their CPU with direct-contact heatpipe coolers do NOT want to delid their CPU. You'll have heatpipes that don't touch the heat-producing die surface and be worse off than when you started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.O.G. View Post
    I didn't want to wander too far into the weeds within the article itself, but I want to mention as well about delidding. Many people know it can be dangerous and easy to kill a chip that way. However people often forget a challenge with making contact with the die - if you delid, you may need to modify the socket/socket retention clip to ensure the base of your cooler can contact the die, as without the IHS the chip will ride lower on the motherboard. Just a note for anyone who may follow up with further testing on this.
    Also, you want to make sure you do not crush the die either.

    Great and informative article IMOG!!

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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Sort of similar deal with most recent waterblocks as well Hokie, they are designed to cool a heat spreader, not a focused central die - older blocks like the Storm were designed to cool bare die.

    As for crushing the die, I probably won't be delidding myself - my chip will only see LN2 usage, and with remounting the F1EE on a weekly basis, I'd be bound to crack or crush the die before long. In that case, I'll take the IHS for protection alone - the LN2 will do its job well enough. A lot easier to hurt a chip without the IHS on.
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    could you take the lid off, clean up tim, put some little chunks of solder were the tim was set lid back on and heat it with a heatgun or mini torch until it settles back down could work?
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    very nice find, and also very informative.

    one question I would have is if sandy bridge has been confirmed to have fluxless solder and not a similar paste. I would guess it is the solder method, as it would explain the huge discrepancy on temps between 2 fairly similar cpu's. I just would love to see a delidded sandy bridge cpu as well.
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    What are the differences in waterblocks designed for direct die cooling vs IHS cooling? I would expect completely flat base for direct die, but what else?

    The whole direct die cooling era was before my time
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    Id imagine the pins and channels in the block were more centralized than spread out, but that is just a guess... and likely a poor one.

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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattNo5ss View Post
    What are the differences in waterblocks designed for direct die cooling vs IHS cooling? I would expect completely flat base for direct die, but what else?

    The whole direct die cooling era was before my time
    There was something of a pinnacle in water block design, just before the time when the IHS first became popular. Once the IHS came into the picture, blocks designed for use without an IHS were less effective with an IHS, and new blocks adjusted accordingly.

    With waterblocks designed to cool a die without an IHS, microchannels and impingement (don't hear that too often anymore!) were major design features. Impingement over the central area of the die was important in that it greatly increased the interaction between the water and surface area directly above the die. There was more focus on cooling that small area primarily, than the current focus on cooling the larger IHS area.

    There are other old timers who are much more well versed than myself within our community who could speak in more detail and with more knowledge. Nikhsub knows, cathar knows, billa knows... Others too, but those are the guys off the top of my head. rge is still very active around here and he could probably explain in more detail than me as well.
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    Member wingman99's Avatar
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    Didnt SB use the same TIM on the IHS and it has no problem.

    This analogy has no facts to prove this theory either a test of removing IHS and have direct contact needs to be done to confirm.

    If this theory was true then water cooling would not help. The heat would build up and not make high enough dissipation for water cooling to be affective.

    A heat barrier is like not locking down your heat sink then the temp is high and nothing will cool it.
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    I would be very surprised if they would switch this "secret sauce" for solder on later chips... but who knows, would be something interesting to wait for then!

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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingman99 View Post
    Didnt SB use the same TIM on the IHS and it has no problem.
    SB did not use the same TIM. SB used solder attach. Here's a reference I pulled from a quick google:
    http://forums.vr-zone.com/the-overcl...ml#post9743547
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    Nice editorial Matt! Glad to see the discussion from the Ivy review got made into an informative frontpage article.

    Hopefully the TIM is only on the review samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwbaxter View Post
    Hopefully the TIM is only on the review samples.
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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    I don't know if that comment is accurate in any way, but brownie points because it made me laugh.
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    very nice once again Matt. I suspected that SB was soldered, proof is in the pudding.
    rather dissapointing that Intel would back off a few nickels savings for the heat terror that those jumping to ivy will be faced with. rather sad day for me. think I will wait it out and see if they change thier minds on a new stepping.
    Hoping this thread exposes their choice enough to make them rethink the process
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    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Jonnie. I'm not totally convinced that TIM paste will be a permanent feature really... One might actually suspect that retail units will be soldered, and what we've found and explained in this article is more meaningful for the preliminary results we're seeing in most of the reviews and forums about Ivy getting hot when overclocked.

    There are some exceptions, despite most people raising questions about the heat when overclocked, like the computershopper overclocking results:
    http://computershopper.com/component.../4#review-body

    They didn't perceive the temperature issues reported in most articles with their sample. Their test was rather quick at 10 minutes then a temp reading, but I suppose it could be an indication that not all these chips are hot. Anxious also to see if Intel can add better insight than what we have to work off of currently.
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    I'm glad I'm still not testing water blocks... I think a Storm would be ideal on a bare die processor for H2O cooling... you do NOT want a bowed block on a bare die - at all. We are back to flat as can be again. No one is making blocks for bare dies at all. Intel really needs to be consistent, either solder the lids like you started doing a few years back or just get rid of the IHS altogether (doubt that will ever happen).
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