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$30 500 watt PSU vs my current PSU

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OC Noob

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Location
Phoenix, AZ USA
I posted this in the cyber deals forums and its really more appropriate for this forum.

Heres a link:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158711

"Mine is still pending too.


When I got this new P4 it runs fine at 3.06 Ghz until I start playing a 3d intensive game. Then I get this terrible crackling and high pitched wine from the speakers and the system hard locks. Do you think the Enermax 350 w PSU may be the cause. Maybe it just dosent have enough juice to run all the BS in my case AND power the 9700 pro when its stressed.

I thought maybe I would switch out PSU's for this 500 w one and see what happens.

Is there anyway to tell if the PSU is crapping out durning games?

What do you think?"


ps what are your thoughts on this dirt cheap PSU?
 
You can download Motherboard Monitor or Speedfan and see if your voltages are dipping alot. Also these may not give an accurate reading of your voltage but at least you can see if it's dipping alot. In Motherboard Monitor it will keep a history for you.The Sparkle/Fortron unit is superior to the Enermax and is capable of much more output not that the Enermax is bad, just not as good. Your Enermax should be able to handle the load I would think so make sure your problem isn't elsewhere. You may want to go over to Rage3d.com as there's a forum just for that card.
 
I think its just the O/C, when I run it at 3.02 Ghz I don't have a problem, but thought it may be the PSU since that probably the most demanding thing I do as far as energy is concerned.

Dreams of 3.2 ghz, with a better PSU, danced through my head and I had to ask:D
 
You need at least a 400w to run something like that
the 9700pro is a very demanding card, and it shows by the needed 5v to be connected from the PSU.

The P4, especially running at such an overclock will draw a lot of power and all I can say is that a 350w is chump power for something like that. I actually started to have problems recently with my 400w running on my 2400+ @ 2.2ghz and my 9700Pro overclocked to hell, so if you're overclocking a high end P4 system on a 350w that's obviously your problem.

I would say these brand power supplies are your best bet for long lasting stability and power:

Enermax (high wattage, 430w and above)
Allied 400w and above
Vantec (NOT STEALTH) 420w and above
Sparkle 395w and above

you can just tell which PSUs are better by which ones require less power to work well under pressure :D
 
... so if you're overclocking a high end P4 system on a 350w that's obviously your problem.

I would say these brand power supplies are your best bet for long lasting stability and power:

Enermax (high wattage, 430w and above)
Allied 400w and above
Vantec (NOT STEALTH) 420w and above
Sparkle 395w and above

The Fortron/Sparkle 350 makes more power than your suggested Enermax 430 (431 actually), anything Allied, and the 420 Vantec and is capable of running modern overclocked systems of large porportions. Please refrain from falling into and perpetuating the trap that knowing the nominal rated total output tells you anything about the supply's actual capability. It simply isn't so. One 350 may be markedly stronger than another 400... You might read this thread for a more thorough explanation of the fallacy of siezing upon this spec and acting upon it. It also touches on the advisablity of something like a "500W" power supply that costs 28.50.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150384
 
you can just tell which PSUs are better by which ones require less power to work well under pressure
Only if the better PSU was more efficient, but I don't think there's a relationship between efficiency and ATX PSU quality -- almost everything is approx. 70% efficient.
 
How come no one said anything about Top power? I thought they had one of the strictest Power rail requirements of all the manufactures. like .05% for the rails. I'm kinda in the market for a new PSU too and I thought they were the best.
 
DaedalusX said:
You need at least a 400w to run something like that
the 9700pro is a very demanding card, and it shows by the needed 5v to be connected from the PSU.

The 9700pro uses the 12V line.
 
Guess I should have gotten the sparkle instead of the enermax. live and learn.

For $30 it going to do as a back up, so i doesn't have to be good, I was just curious if anyone was familiar with this one and could tell me what would be approximately its equivlant. i.e 300 w enermax.

I'll read that thread and see if I can figure it out me self. Thanks for the link:)
 
It's not just he power output you are looking at but the stability of the voltage on each rail. In other words how much does it fluctuate. Not to mention build and parts quality. The 300 watt Enermax may not have the output capability of the 500 watt PSU that costs 28 dollars but is most likely better in every other way and much less likely to cause problems. There's more too it and certainly some PSU's are bargains (Fortron/Sparkle) but even in China everything costs something and there's a reason 500 watt PSU's cost from 28 bucks to 150 or more. The manufacturers of the more expensive supplies would go out of business real fast if their supplies weren't much better than the cheapest models.
 
Okay, I read through the post, and now understand a better way of evaluating PSU's, but still have 2 questions if you don't mind.


1) this $30 PSU has only amps for the different rails on the web site and since I don't have it in hand I can't check the sticker on the side of it. Is there any way to figure out the wattage for the 3.3 and 5 v rails via this info? If you want to see the discription the link is in the first post of the thread I linked in my first post.

2) Since my system is stable at 3.02 ghz in 3dmark/prime95/sandra burnin/everyday gaming and usage does that mean my 350 W enremax is strong enough for my system (a lot of people seem to think its not) or does that mean it will work okay, but I run a greater risk of instability/system or PSU damage or what? Its kind of confusing when people say it won't, but it seemingly does power the system just fine.


Thanks for the help, that link was very insightful:)


Edit: here are the specs

Output:
500W Max

+3.3V 30A
+5V 50A
+12V 25A
-5V 0.5A
-12V 0.8A
+5VSB 2.0A

Is 50a x 5 = 250 watts max for the 3.3 and 5 v rails? Is that correct?

Sure its a crappy PSU and those specs are probably way inflated, but is that the correct way to calculate the max wattage for those two rails?
 
Last edited:
OC Noob said:


here are the specs

Output:
500W Max

+3.3V 30A
+5V 50A
+12V 25A
-5V 0.5A
-12V 0.8A
+5VSB 2.0A

Those are very powerful amperage ratings on those voltage lines. Especially the 12 and 5V line. That P/S could power about 2.5 PC's
 
Tebore said:
How come no one said anything about Top power? I thought they had one of the strictest Power rail requirements of all the manufactures. like .05% for the rails. I'm kinda in the market for a new PSU too and I thought they were the best.

Actually from what I have read, Intel and AMD recommend using power supplies with 5% line regulation or better. So, this isn't exactly the best but more like the minimum. I know of 3 PSU's off the top of my head that claim 1% on the 3.3v, 5v, and 12v lines and 1 that claims 3%. (We don't care about the negative lines afaik) There may be more but I just haven't encountered them.

The 1% claims I've seen:
PC Power and Cooling (all models I think)
Vantec (Stealths, these are there only models I think)
Sparkle (the FSP 350 and 400 iirc, not sure about the rest)

The 3% claims I've seen:
Antec Truepower

Here's a Topower review btw: http://www.dansdata.com/top420p4.htm
 
You need to reread larva's sticky on specifications. There's no laws regulating how they measure their PSU's like there are for home power amplifier ratings. Therefore they put on the spec sheet what they want you to believe, whether or not they're true is another story.
 
warnerwh said:
You need to reread larva's sticky on specifications. There's no laws regulating how they measure their PSU's like there are for home power amplifier ratings. Therefore they put on the spec sheet what they want you to believe, whether or not they're true is another story.

I'm not a moron, reading it once will suffice. I wrote this, after reading Larva's sticky, because its abundantly clear PSU manufacturers can make any claims they'd like.

me said:
Sure its a crappy PSU and those specs are probably way inflated


Anyway, Larva if you read this thread again, I'd like to get your opinion on the two questions I asked in my last post (since you wrote the sticky;)), if you don't mind.
 
OC Noob said:
Okay, I read through the post, and now understand a better way of evaluating PSU's, but still have 2 questions if you don't mind.


1) this $30 PSU has only amps for the different rails on the web site and since I don't have it in hand I can't check the sticker on the side of it. Is there any way to figure out the wattage for the 3.3 and 5 v rails via this info? If you want to see the discription the link is in the first post of the thread I linked in my first post.

2) Since my system is stable at 3.02 ghz in 3dmark/prime95/sandra burnin/everyday gaming and usage does that mean my 350 W enremax is strong enough for my system (a lot of people seem to think its not) or does that mean it will work okay, but I run a greater risk of instability/system or PSU damage or what? Its kind of confusing when people say it won't, but it seemingly does power the system just fine.


Thanks for the help, that link was very insightful:)


Edit: here are the specs

Output:
500W Max

+3.3V 30A
+5V 50A
+12V 25A
-5V 0.5A
-12V 0.8A
+5VSB 2.0A

Is 50a x 5 = 250 watts max for the 3.3 and 5 v rails? Is that correct?

Sure its a crappy PSU and those specs are probably way inflated, but is that the correct way to calculate the max wattage for those two rails?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to any of these threads, at times questions escape my notice.

There is no way to calculate the 3.3+5V power. It has to be measured. That is what makes it a meaningful spec, at least as meaningful as specs get. Manufacturers have long pumped up the 12V spec to justfy inflated total wattage ratings. Not that the 12V is unimportant (in fact the opposite is true), but the higher current levels associated with the lower voltages along with the fact that it must account for two different outputs simultaneously makes the 3.3+5V spec important. Also, it is a fairly new spec and has not been exploited as universally as total wattage ratings. You may find there is no 3.3+5V rating on the sticker of the 500, the worst of supplies don't have them.

As far as your 350 Enermax goes, it is likely doing fine. My guage for such cases is the temperature of the air exiting the supply. If it is blowing cold or only mildly warm air, it's operating in a load range that will allow it to provide stable voltages as well as live a long life. If it is fairly warm, chances are that voltage stability has suffered and lifespan shortenend. Generally ovclock is not markedly affected at this point, but each case is unique. If it is blowing HOT, you need to upgrade it before you hurt something. For a given load you can almost guage output with a thermometer, as overload is what drives power supply temperatures through the roof. Many cheap supplies exhaust warm to hot air with very light loads... the dead giveaway that they make next to no power regardless of any spec or rating.
 
Thanks for all the great info.

Its disapointing that there is no way to gauge a PSU's worth for the average person shopping for one...


Low and behold! The devil in peanut packing just arrived:D

and there are no 3.3 and 5 v ratings on the sticker as you stated.

Back to what I was saying. Its very disapointing that there really is no way of gauging an unknown PSU with out trying it or knowing someone whom has tried it. What I've learned about PSUs is well worth the $30 spent, its just a shame that there is no standardized ratings that PSU makers must follow.

But thats not your fault;) and I really appreciate all the good info you and others have given me.

Thanks!


ps my psu puts out luke warm air unless I'm gaming or stress testing, then it puts out (just an educated guess from living in the desert for 20 years) what feals like mid 80 to mid 90 degree heat.

Whats strange is the fan doesn't kick out much in the way of air flow. There are two fans in it and they are both running. It just seems strange that the PSU doesn't put out much air. I'll do a search and see what I can find.

Thanks again!
 
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