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SCSI? Help:(

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domstar

Member
Joined
May 19, 2002
Location
Wales,UK
Hi,
Im gona make a venture into the world of SCSI as it is faster and apparentley more efeicient than IDE etc...The problem is that I know nothing about it. Can any gime a hand with this? I have just bought the following card and was wondering if could run a HDD from it and boot from ?what do I need to look for with SCSI hardware eytc....?
cheers,
DoM
 
hmmm.... You failed to post what card you purchased. The only thing SCSI has going for it now days is CPU utilization for single drives since the SCSI card handles 99% of the processing. IDE usues anywhere from 7% up to 15% of your CPU. In multi-drive configurations SCSI does perform better especially when you add more drives and use applications that "stream" data like video processing. I personally wouldn't purchase SCSI now. I sold all my SCSI stuff and converted to IDE. If you still want to look into the SCSI basics such as termination and whatnot, try Adaptec's website.

http://www.adaptec.com
 
I have a 50Pin Adaptec card but I cant remember the serial.are all SCSI cards bootable?I am going to buy a 4GB Segate Baracuda drive just to fiddle with really. It might make a good drive yo solely use as a boot drive. Any ideas?
DoM
 
But can I boot a drive via the card is what I meant. I didnt think that you could boot from the crad,only via it. surely if i opt in the bIOS to boot via SCSI itll boot that particular drive?
DoM
 
The card had to have a bootable BIOS to be able to be booted. Many have a SCSI BIOS, some don't. It all depends on the card type.
 
Would you be able to tel me if the card was bootable? it is an Adaptec AHA-2910B Ultra SCSI Card .
DoM
 
you will see a performance increase from 50-100% going to scsi 15k rpm from ide ata133 depending on what programs you run.

for example, in sisoft sandra HDD benchmark test, my scsi seems to get done more than twice as quick as my brothers ata 100 HDD. i belive it takes me a little under a minute while my brothers ata takes up to 3 minutes.

i have noticed that games load and exit quicker. for example, sim city 4, saving and exiting the game can take 30 secs to a minute on my ide ata 100 (even for a small city), the scsi takes about 10 seconds for that same size city.

i have 3 older HDD, a 20 gig IBM, 20 gig WD, and 8 gig ibm. i am begining to worry about hd failure due to age for those Hard drives. they are not more than five years old. the wd bsod on me a few times, the 8 gig ibm is making the funny noises associated with age. and the other ibm 20 gig is doing ok i guess.

with scsi, you usually get a 5 year warranty. so you won't be worrying about hd failure for quite sme time.

i don't find my scsi to be louder than any of my ide drives. but then again, maybe because the scsi is new and the others are old.

windows boots faster.

defragging goes faster, seems like more than twice as fast as ide. for example, my other computer has over 130,00 files on it's 20 gig IBM or WD and i leave the computer on for hours to let it defrag. i have only 67,000 files on my 18 gig scsi so far, but defragmentation only takes several minutes.

here are some performance numbers from sisoft sandra HDD bench test. all rigs are stock.

my 2 computers with ata100 in them both average= 16,000

my brother's with ata 100 or ata 133, i think he has an 8meg cache version. = 22,000

my scsi = 37,500

scsi can "do" multiple reads and writes so you can have a program scan your hd, like adaware or anti-virus, and open other programs without HDD bottleneck problems.

as for bootable scsi card, it must have a bios on it.

when it comes to single drive perfromance, scsi always destroys ide. but if you raid 0 two ide drives, it will defeat the single scsi drive. but if you raid 0 two scsi drives, it will destroy the raid 0 ide setup.

in certain applications, the performance increase may be difficult to see. for example, when i play bf1942, at map changes, my rig doesnt seem to enter the new map quicker than my brothers rig (both our CPU power is equal) but then again, the game has to read the cdrom to get some type of data before map change can initialize, so i have to wait for the cdrom to start spinning again and that is what kills it. my cdrom is 4 years old. so if i have a cd rom as fast as his, i should beat my brother during map changes.

going scsi is going to cost you. but it is going to educate you as well. in the end you would have spent good money, but you will feel like you spent your money wisely.

if you have the will, and the cash, go with a 15k rpm scsi. also, get a true 64 bit/66mhz scsi controller. some controllers say they are 64 bit, but only run at33mhz, which is 32 bit speed. i know that none of the adeptec scsi cards run in 64@66mhz except the scsi raids which are crazy expensive $400 dollars and up on pricewatch.com.
 
Last edited:
Cheers for that-so is SCSI more expensive? I have just bought a 50Pin Adaptec card and now looking for a 50Pin drive. the card only cost me £2 on ebay but im unsure as wether or not it is bootable? can you run any card with any drive etc..if the cable is the same or an adapater is used? For example could i use an 80pin drive with my 50pin card?
DoM
 
I don't think you are going to find many 50 pin drives these days. Maybe cd-roms.

Luckly you can purchase a 68 pin coverter to allow you to use 68 pin drives. However, if it's a 50 pin card the chances are that it will be very slow. It may not even support ultra wide?

Go for a SCSI card with as much cache as possible. 68 pin is what you are looking for. 16mb cache or more. 128mb is nice, but you don't need it if you are not running raid. Go for dual channal. Single channal is a bit wimpy, as you have to put everything on on channal.
 
I don't think you are going to find many 50 pin drives these days. Maybe cd-roms.

Luckly you can purchase a 68 pin coverter to allow you to use 68 pin drives. However, if it's a 50 pin card the chances are that it will be very slow. It may not even support ultra wide?

Go for a SCSI card with as much cache as possible. 68 pin is what you are looking for. 16mb cache or more. 128mb is nice, but you don't need it if you are not running raid. Go for dual channal. Single channal is a bit wimpy, as you have to put everything on on channal.
 
50pin is old skool. I think you should just stick with IDE unless you are ready to drop a fair amount of cash. Then you may not even be happy...Save your money and time if you are just a gamer...

Enemy Down!:
22k for an 8MB Cache is slow...My WD 80GB 8Mb Cache gets 45k - 48k.
 
that card is not bootable. it does not have a bios. also, i think that card is intended to hook-up scsi cdroms and other drives except HDD.


PCI card for workstations and servers.Ideal For Connecting CD-Recordable, CD-Rewriteable and Jaz Drives.




Adaptec Product Specifications: AHA-2910B

Product Specifications

Data Transfer Rate
up to 10 MB/sec
Device Support
Supports up to 7 total
External Connector(s)
50-pin high-density SCSI-2 (female)
Internal Connector(s)
50-pin standard (male)
System Bus interface
32-bit PCI
System Requirements
IBM-compatible PC-486, Pentium, or above
Windows 95, Windows NT, Windows 3.1,
MS-DOS 6.0, OS/2, NetWare,
SCO UNIX or UnixWare Operating System
PCI expansion slot
SCSI peripheral
Package Contents
AHA-2910 PCI-to-Fast SCSI card
Adaptec EZ-SCSI software (on CD)
Adaptec 7800 Family Manager Set® software
SCSISelect optimization utility
50-pin internal SCSI ribbon cable (external cable is not included)
Quick installation guide
Registration card
Warranty
5-year limited warranty

General Specifications

Device Protocol
SCSI1,
SCSI-2,
Fast SCSI-2
Peripheral Support
Non-bootable

Electrical and Mechanical Specifications

Board Dimensions
4.7" (11.9 cm) L
3.0" (7.6 cm) H
Power Consumption
+5.0 +/- 0.25 Volts at 2.0 amps maximum
Operating Characteristics
-5 C to 60 C (23 F to 140 F)
10% to 95%, non-condensing Relative Humidity
Storage Characteristics
-55 C to 85 C (-67 F to 185 F)
MTBF (mean time between failures, Bellcore)
555,218.6 hours

Supported Operating Systems
IBM OS/2 2.x
IBM OS/2 Warp Client 3.0
IBM OS/2 Warp Client 4.0
IBM OS/2 Warp Server 3.0
IBM OS/2 Warp Server 4.0
Microsoft MS-DOS 6.x
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
Microsoft Windows 3.10
Microsoft Windows 95
Microsoft Windows 95a
Microsoft Windows 95b
Microsoft Windows 95c
Microsoft Windows 98
Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition
Microsoft Windows for Workgroups 3.11
Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
Microsoft Windows NT 3.51
Microsoft Windows NT 4.0
Novell NetWare 3.10
Novell NetWare 3.11
Novell NetWare 3.12
Novell NetWare 3.2
Novell NetWare 4.0
Novell NetWare 4.01
Novell NetWare 4.10
Novell NetWare 4.11
Novell NetWare 4.12
Novell NetWare 4.20
Novell NetWare 5.0
Novell NetWare 5.10
SCO Openserver 5.0
SCO Openserver 5.01
SCO Openserver 5.02
SCO Openserver 5.03
SCO Openserver 5.04
SCO Openserver 5.05
SCO Unix 3.2.4.2
SCO UnixWare 2.0
SCO UnixWare 2.10
SCO UnixWare 2.11

Product Support
AHA-2910B Support Options
AHA-2910B Downloads
Set-up & Installation

Product Details
Product Specifications

General Support Resources
Support Options
Contact Support
TSID Information
Register My Product
 
22k for an 8MB Cache is slow...My WD 80GB 8Mb Cache gets 45k - 48k.

you are telling me that your single HDD is getting those numbers in sisoft sandra with settings to default and the latest version?

i don't belive it.

the 15k scsi drive in the reference is rated at 40k. and i only got 37.5k
 
Enemy Down! said:


you are telling me that your single HDD is getting those numbers in sisoft sandra with settings to default and the latest version?

i don't belive it.

the 15k scsi drive in the reference is rated at 40k. and i only got 37.5k

I'll take a screen shot tonight when I get home. Simple! :D
 
domstar said:
Cheers for that-so is SCSI more expensive? I have just bought a 50Pin Adaptec card and now looking for a 50Pin drive. the card only cost me £2 on ebay but im unsure as wether or not it is bootable? can you run any card with any drive etc..if the cable is the same or an adapater is used? For example could i use an 80pin drive with my 50pin card?
DoM
Some SCSI is way more expensive, some older stuff is not. The drive may be bootable if your BIOS settings allow you to boot from SCSI. SCSI is really hard to configure when you are trying to combine the many variations. You can use an 80 pin drive with your card with the correct adapter, but you most likely won't get the maximum data transfer rates for the drive. Read the guide I recommended above as a starting point, then do a bunch more research before you ever get into doing this. You can end up spending a lot of money if you don't know exactly what you are doing and what you want to end up doing. Don't believe a bunch of crap and hype that SCSI is easy to figure out. If you end up with SCA or LVD drives, a lot of cards(in particular your 50pin card) won't run them.
 
Just to connect a couple of the dots, 80-pin drives are what we call SCA (single connector attachment). They're used in big, fancy servers, which explains why SCA drives that are a couple of years old (used or not) are so cheap. No longer needed for hugely expensive servers, and requiring an adapter to work for the few people who actually have vaguely modern SCSI controllers, they languish at surplus stores-- and on E-Bay.

Your 50-pin "narrow" SCSI card is only "old school" with reference to hard drives. Indeed, most any hard drive manufactured since roughly 1998 would be horribly limited by this controller... if a way could be found to attach a modern drive to it at all. But as stated earlier, it's perfectly good for CD/DVD drives, other sorts of removable media, scanners, etc.

LVD (low-voltage differential) is a technology used by modern SCSI hard drives with 68 and 80-pin connectors (though some drives with these numbers of pins are too old to be LVD).

Not to be miserly with the knowledge, but SCSI is too big to be explained in a day anyway. Guides and FAQs from people like Adaptec are a great place to start, but they don't contain everything there is to know, either. So if you have any specific questions, we're here for you.
 
PH|BeR said:
Enemy Down!:
22k for an 8MB Cache is slow...My WD 80GB 8Mb Cache gets 45k - 48k.

It's not all about transfer rate...check out www.storagereview.com, on the front page is a comparison between RAID and non-RAID, shows little difference in some applications, and then check out their database, you can compare whatever you want. They have REAL WORLD BENCHIES :)

Also, another thing to think about for SCSI is that the load is taken off the CPU, so you get a speed boost right there in the middle of intense usage.

For cards (adapters), Id suggest looking at brands like LSI Logic, perhaps Tekram. Adaptec is just the most marketed, that's all.

Don't skimp on SCSI cabling, as it really matters, especially termination. Don't have time for more, will come back later :)

Edit: my point about transfer rates, look at access time
 
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