Temp probs;, thermal paste probs; need help!

First of all, thanks to this board! I pieced together my first system from reading a lot of posts here. But I'm not sure I'm getting the best cooling with my setup.

I've got a 2.4B (not OC'd yet) mounted on an Asus P4PE, cooled by an Alpha HS w/ ThermalTake SmartFanII. However, I put a bit too much paste on the CPU and when I gently pulled the HS off, the CPU came with it, bending some pins. I almost had a freakin' heart attack! I bent the pins back and everything is find now, and I put a tiny, tiny bit of paste on the HS (just a "haze") for fear of ripping the CPU from it's mount again. The only problem is, my temps are a bit higher than before (for obvious reasons).

With too much paste:
35-36C at idle
43-44C at load

Now, with prolly too little paste:
39C at idle
55C at load

What, if anything, needs to be changed? Should I add a little more paste? Are these good temps to start overclocking from?

Thanks very much!!
-Bad Mange

What kind of thermal paste are you using? The proper way to apply thermal goop is described on the arctic silver website if you are not certain of the method. It should be relatively hard to remove the chip from the socket when the lever is holding it down.

You definetly have a TIM joint problem. You need to clean the cpu and the bottom of the heatsink then apply thermal paste by the method described on the AS website, here is a link: http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm. Here are more resources on the thermal paste application process: http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/searc...d=226973&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

It is a search for "thermal paste application"... you will find that those words are highlighted in each thread you click on so they will be easy to find.

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

Thanks for the info, I.M.O.G.

The HS was affixed to the CPU pretty good, and the lever was down. There should be some sort of "emergency release" so the pins don't get bent by newbies like me who force things, albiet gently...

I'm using Antec paste and last night I did use the Arctic instructions. I'm thinking I put too little paste on, but I'm worried about putting on more. Are my temps normal?

What exactly is a TIM joint problem?

Thanks for the welcome!

-Bad Mange

What are you using to clean the paste off when you reapply? It could be that you have some residue from the last application hindering your cooling. Also, your paste may need a few days before you actually see the best temps.

Just to clarify:

Its not Epoxy paste, is it? That is meant to stick?
Probably labeled as "Antec Silver Thermal Adhesive"

I just reread, and no you do not want to overclock at all with a temp of 55C at load.

That's good that you used those instructions, if you are using an amount which barely covers the entire die without any spaces or gaps then that is a good application. Any more than that and you are using too much

What exactly is a TIM joint problem?

Click to expand...

TIM joint - thermal interface material joint... the place where your cpu meets the heatsink.

I said you have a TIM joint problem because this covers multiple possible issues but basically means that there is something wrong with how your heatsink is seated on your cpu.

You could have possibly oriented the heatsink on the socket in the wrong way, because there is probably a portion of the heatsink base that is raised to fit over the raised portion of the socket and those raised portions need to match up in order for the heatsink to make good contact with the cpu die.
Your temp change is typical of when people remove/replace their heatsinks and don't get the seating quite right.

It could also have something to do with the thermal paste application.

Right now, i would remove the heatsink and check to see if it is oriented correctly for sure, sometimes you can't tell the difference unless you take it out and look at the bottom. After you check, be sure to reinstall correctly and clean and reapply the thermal paste.

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone!

I made sure I cleaned off both the CPU and HS with isopropyl alcohol and cotton swabs, dried them and then applied a VERY thin coat of paste onto the HS. It's really just a "haze," which is why I thought there might not be enough.

I checked, the paste is called "Antec Reference: Silver Thermal Compound."

I definitely won't OC with the temps the way they are now. I'll disassemble, clean, reapply paste and reassemble, and run some more burn-in tests to see what I'm at. I'll post my results in a few hrs...

Thanks again,
-Bad Mange

a "haze" might not be enough... try to apply a layer that looks similar to the one on the AS website. good luck.

OK, I cleaned off and reapplied the paste, a bit thicker this time.

My temps are 38C idle and 50C load.

So that's a bit better under load, 5 degree difference. Only one degree difference at idle. How are those temps for OC'ing now? If they're still too high, is there a reference for what they should be?

Thanks,
-Bad Mange

Another day and I'm still at 38C idle and 50C load. How are those numbers for stability? Is there an "average" I should shoot for?

-Bad Mange

They're not too great. I.M.O. you should aim to keep around 45C max. Make sure you follow the AS application instructions and apply the thin layer of thermal compound to the CPU, not the heatsink. Also, when you're putting the heatsink back on, make sure you keep the heatsink from "sliding" around ontop of the CPU to avoid scraping away your even coat of thermal compound.

Those numbers are fine for stability at stock speeds, stability won't be an issue. I would not overclock though with load temps like that.

Thanks for the quick replies, tio and IMOG. I guess I'll have to put a little bit more paste on the CPU this weekend...

tio, all the directions I've read say to put it on the heatsink, with just a little dab on the CPU. Is there some benefit to putting it on the CPU only?

You can put some on the heatsink (and should, according to arctic silver's instructions), just as long as you wipe of the excess with a clean paper towel. Putting it on the heatsink is just to fill in the microscopic gaps, after you wipe it off it'll probably be just a very faint tint that looks like a stain. Usually getting a full imprint of grease on the heatsink results in the best temps for me. If, after taking your heatsink off, you see that the imprint of grease isn't the whole size and shape of the die/IHS, it means you'll need slightly more (how much depends on how flat the 2 surfaces are, the more uneven they are, the more you'll need). Experiment and find out how much is optimal. It's a pain in the ***, but it's worth it IMHO.

Well, as soon as I got home from school today I ripped apart everything, reapplied the paste onto the CPU, a little bit on the HS and slapped 'em back together.

Idle Temp:
35-36C

Load Temp:
44C

So it seems like this was the "magic" application. Not too much, not too little! I'm happy so far, but I'm still worried about the next time I have to pull the HS off the CPU.

Anyone have any suggestions for detaching a HS from a CPU? A plastic knife or something that won't scratch the CPU and HS? Anyone else ever had the HS stuck to the CPU via paste? Maybe I'll have to let it cool a few hrs...

And yes, it is a pain in the *** to keep reapplying the paste, but I'll keep doing it until I have good temps. This is my first system from scratch and I want everything working perfectly. And, I'd like to OC it soon...

So how are my temps now? Am I good to start bumping up the clock speeds and voltages yet? I'll wait until next week, in order to let the paste settle and make sure the temps are stable, but I'm itching to OC!

-Bad Mange

BadMange said:

Anyone have any suggestions for detaching a HS from a CPU? A plastic knife or something that won't scratch the CPU and HS? Anyone else ever had the HS stuck to the CPU via paste?

Click to expand...

I've never had a HS stick to a cpu. But if it happens again, grab a blowdryer and aim it at where the CPU and HS meet so that it heats up the thermal compound. Then use a thin piece of plastic (I've heard a credit card works great) to wedge inbetween the CPU and HS, and you should be able get them apart a lot easier.

As for your temps, they're not too bad now. Not great mind you, considering you're not overclocking yet...but they should get a bit better as the thermal compound "sets" over the next couple of days or so. You might have to try some other things to cool your processor a bit more if you want to overclock a lot though, like ducting and/or improving airflow inside your case.

When I used too much Arctic Silver 3, it was also very difficult for me to remove the HS from the CPU. If it wasn't difficult to remove the heatsink when you had less thermal grease on, it might mean you have a bit too much on right now.

I ran Prime95 for 3hrs and my load temps never went above 44-45C. My mobo temp is a solid 26C, but it sits by a closed heater vent and I don't have any other place to put it. I'll probably get one of those plastic air deflectors to route the hot air away from the case.

And as far as too much paste, I think I finally got it right. It's about the thickness of a piece of paper (on the CPU). But I guess I'll find out for sure the next time I remove the HS... Thanks for the suggestion of using a credit card! I should have thought of that, since I used an old phonecard to apply the paste evenly.

I use an Antec PerformancePlus 1080 AMG with 5 fans. Two front intakes (one case intake and one HDD cooler/intake), one side intake (videocard cooler/intake) and two exhaust fans. Plus, my true power PS has two fans. The three intake and one exhaust fans are connected to the fan power connectors (speed is controlled by the PS). The other exhaust fan is a temp controlled Antec fan. I'm sure if I move all the wires out of the way and connect all the fans to regular power plugs for max cooling, the case temp will obviously drop. Anyone have any pics of this same case with the wires placed neatly out of the way? I'm not sure exactly where to run them, to improve airflow.

So what are ideal temps for a P4 2.4B? I thought 45C at load was fine, so now I'm depressed...

-Bad Mange

45C at load with a 2.4B is actually pretty good. It all depends on how much that increases when you overclock though. I shouldn't say that you need to try to get it lower; a lot of people are running 2.4B chips @ 3 GHz+ around those temps. If your temps stay around 45ish at load while overclocking, then that's great. It's not like you're going to burn the chip or anything (obviously) if you start overclocking and your temps start to rise above 50C, it's just that it will most likely limit your overclock. You'll be able to tell, a lot better, if you're temps are fine once you start o/cing. Let me know how it goes!