Hot E4500 based system

(Moved from Intel CPU section... whoops)

There's probably no one solution for the heat issues I'm seeing but if anyone has been here and can suggest the most effective improvement, I'm listening.

Setup is as my sig, so I won't repeat that. The following stuff may offer a reasonable overview of the symptoms:

Case temperature ~47ºC
Fanless nVIDIA 8500 graphics card ~62ºC
Boot drive ~48ºC
Core temps ~45ºC at idle
Core temps ~83ºC max stress under Prime
Ambient temp ~20ºC

Obviously too high all round so I'll be looking to drop the temps so I get around the following (hopefully) or I suspect that this setup will be very short-lived.

Case temperature ~30ºC
Fanless nVIDIA 8500 graphics card ~62ºC (Can't see how to fix this unless the case temp is lowered so that's what I'm aiming for)
Boot drive ~36ºC
Core temps ~30ºC at idle
Core temps ~70ºC max stress under Prime
Ambient temp ~20ºC

If you're able to help with some sage advice, I'll be glad to hear it, but my immediate response is to add another case fan to help cope with the fanless graphics card heat output, and overall, get the case temperature down.

I'm thinking that two extractors and the single intake fan might be the solution but that's a guess. If somebody has tried it with 2x in and 1x out and get a better result, I'll go for that instead. Let me know.

Obviously the case cooling will have an effect on the core temps and HDD temp as well as the graphics, so one improvement, I hope, will get me half way there.

The CPU heat issue looks like it will require a new cooler/fan combo to replace the Intel stock jobbie so if there's an E4500 overclocker who has had good results with an aftermarket cooler/fan, I'd be keen on getting your feedback.

Lastly (and sorry about the long-winded post), I've read all of the basic O/C advice and discussion I can on this board and although I should have sorted the hardware side of things before starting the overclock side, I think I understand the basis of a moderate O/C. My sig will give an idea of where I am with that, but so far I'm pleased with what this MB, memory and CPU are giving.

Thanks in advance for whatever advice you can offer.

Cheers,
Andy.

to OCForums, Andy.

From your post, it looks like you have the right idea already on your problem. Case ventilation looks to be your main problem and you need to improve that. What case are you using and what are the ambient temps where the computer is set up at? Depending on your case, you might have a couple of options to improve case ventilation.

As for a new hsf (heatsink/fan) for your E4500, there are quite a few options out there at varying prices. Depending you what case you are using will affect our recommendations too, as some hsf's won't fit in narrower case designs. I have found that the upright heatsink designs (ones that mount the fan vertical in relation to the mobo) that use 120 mm fans cool better than designs that have the fan blow towards the mobo, but won't fit is some cases due to their height.

The case is a vital piece of missing info! While your temps are high they are not to the point of significantly lowering system life. With an ambient of 20 degrees I am highly inclined to think the case ventilation is pretty poor as you suspect. Some basics: Ideally you want equal in and out. Granted you are going to get a little more in due to ventilation holes and such but you generally want a 1:1 ratio but this can vary on case design. Second you want a good air flow path through the system. Try to keep you cable job as tidy as possible, keep cathods and such out of the way. Lastly consider a fan controller. Even if you go with 120mm fans all around they can get noisy.

Thanks for the welcome.

@muddocktor
Case is an unbranded aluminum standard-sized desktop type with a single fixed speed 1200 rpm 80mm fan sucking air in the front. The MB is mounted quite close to the side of the case so I don't think size of cooler will be an issue.

I have a single MB controlled 80mm extractor in the back which seems to be capable of 2400 rpm. There's a series of concentric holes in the top of the case which allow cool air through the power supply. The air that the PS uses never gets hot so that bit seems to be working OK.

I'll fit a spare 80mm fan to the rear panel to try to stimulate better airflow through the case - my gut tells me that a flow from front to back is going to be the most efficient means of replacing the hot case air with new stuff at ambient temp - but I really don't know if I will be able to fit a second front intake fan as the space is resricted by drive bays and such. There might be some solution that can utilise the unused floppy drive bay. I'll dig into that.

So getting a 1:1 balance between intake and exhaust may not be feasible unless I fit a very high flow (and probably noisy) hi-speed 80mm replacement at the front of the case.

If you can offer a recommendation for a new CPU HS/F combo, I'd be most grateful. Fact is, the sheer numbers of units out there makes the choosing process quite daunting.

Thanks for your encouragement and help.

@ou_phidelt
From the posts I've been wading through, it appears that the sort of temps I'm seeing are definitely in the minority and while I appreciate your reassurance, there seems to be a case for erring on the side of caution, not just for the CPU's health, but for all the other components too.

And I'll do a tidy up on the cables and such when I have the case open to fit the additional fan.

Thanks for your help guys. Appreciate it.

An update

Fitted an additional fan exhausting through the rear of the case which has had the effect of reducing the Prime max stress temperature from 83ºC to 78ºC. So the case airflow has a definite effect. The additional fan seems to have dropped the idle temps from 45ºC to 44ºC which doesn't seem a lot.

I then took the side panel off to see what difference that makes and was stunned to see that the temps for both cores dropped to 71ºC. That's quite a reduction I think and it suggests that the airflow through the case is very poor indeed. Idle temps are down to 34ºC with the case open.

So I'm having to do some serious thinking about how to improve the case airflow as it's most definitely a major contributor to the elevated temps I'm seeing. If I can get an additional 5ºC drop in temps with the improved HS/F combo on top of what I get with the airflow in the case, then that'll do it for me for this level of O/C.

So, time to do a bit of research on the airflow thing. Any tips welcome.

Cheers,
Andy.

If you have access to a Dremel tool or nibbler, you can use that to make a blowhole in the lower part of the case side door to mount an additional intake fan. If you do so I would suggest making it a 120 mm fan size so that you can run a lower rpm, low noise 120 X 25 mm fan there. Alternately, you could also expand the hole where the front intake fan is located from 80 to 120 mm and mount a low to medium speed 120 x 25 mm fan there. Both ways will help improve intake airflow. If you decide to cut a blowhole or enlarge the front fan hole, use a 120 mm wire fan grill to mark the hole for you to cut. Just trace around the largest wire circle of the grill as a template.

If you can link us to some NZ online stores we can look at what you have available and make a recommendation from there.

Thanks again for the tips. I'll get stuck in and create an intake port near the front of the case for a 120mm fan.

www.pbtech.co.nz has probably the best range/price in this neck of the woods so if you spot some goodies you think will help my project, that'd be great.

I've left the case door off until I get the cooling sorted, so the rig is running fine, (if somewhat noisy... ) with idle now around 30ºC. Just finished a bunch of Photoshopping and temps never got over 47ºC, so it's a fine performer. That extra 40% or so CPU increase certainly shows up in PS and InDesign.

Cheers,
Andy.

From that online store this is probably your best bang for buck cooler
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=FANATI12327

Trap05 said:

From that online store this is probably your best bang for buck cooler
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=FANATI12327

Click to expand...

I have that same HSF and love it. It was cheap when i got it and keeps temps very cool with my OC ( E6550 2.33 @ 3.37 )

Trap05 said:

From that online store this is probably your best bang for buck cooler
http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=FANATI12327

Click to expand...

Hey that's great. Price seems extremely reasonable considering there's a built-in fan as well. Thanks a lot for taking the time to search and recommend. Much appreciated. I'll grab one today and report back with my results.

Cheers,
Andy.

Another brief update - fitted the Freezer 7 Pro as recommended, in place of the stock cooler. Amazingly quiet in operation. Prime max stress temps reached 70ºC with the case sealed, which is 13ºC lower than before. Very effective, especially as I removed the additional fan I had previously added. Startup idle was 29ºC, but post the Prime torture test, both cores are sitting at 40ºC. That suggests that the lack of case cooling is keeping the internal case temps too high. I'm going to guess that the idle temps will drop to ~29ºC if I leave it idling for long enough. I won't test again with the side panel off, as I know it'll drop the temps massively. But I don't want to run it like that so it's a pointless exercise.

(Edit 1: As suspected, after firing the PC up this morning and checking emails/web visit/reading a couple of docs, the core temps are sitting on 30ºC. I have a feeling that if I crank up the level of CPU activity, the temps won't drop back to 30 but will increase a little with each burst of new activity and eventually sit at around 40ºC. That's not too horrible but the challenge of '30 at idle as the norm' looms large. And I'm nothing if not a dog with a bone sometimes, so game on. I'll update this post when my case mods are done. And thanks once more to those who've encouraged and helped. I'm glad I stumbled across this web community.)

(Edit 2: Changed from extractor to induction, single 80mm fan, and Prime max load temps are down to 68ºC from 70ºC. So pushing, in my case (pardon the pun), seems to be more efficient than pulling, or in other words, blowing is more efficient than sucking, so that's confirmed the 120mm front replacement fan for me. Let you know the results when it's done.)

(Edit 3: Another bit of tweaking has now got the Prime max load temps to 63ºC while the idle temps are now at 31ºC. That's a decent improvement for no money spent. What I did was to position my MB controlled 80mm fan against the edge of the graphics card heatsink in such a way that half the airflow is above the card and half below. The top stream of air co-incidentally flows onto the North Bridge heatsink. This arrangement made little difference to either Prime temps or idle though, but did drop the temps reported for the graphics card by 5ºC.

I guessed from the dramatic temperature drops when the case is open that the airflow was still poor inside the case. So I made an intake port in the case door which lines up exactly with the fan I attached to the graphics card. I then added a shroud that forms a tunnel from the hole in the case door to the fan, so that the only air that fan delivers is the ambient temperature stuff from outside the case - there is no recycling of heated air through that fan.

The result, as I mentioned at the beginning of this edit, is a further drop in max load and idle temps with the bonus of the grahics card also running cooler (Gfx temp was 62ºC, now 43ºC). Remember that the 8500GT I use has no fan of its own and is itself overclocked. So, a nice reduction with no cost. Can't wait to get the 120mm fan working at the front of the case to replace the hi-speed and noisy 80mm fan that's currently there. Note also that there's no exhaust fan as such. But I have tidied up cables, and popped out the spare PCI slot blanks on the back of the case to improve outflow.

The Yate Loon fan arrives on Tuesday (my time) so hopefully that will complete the cooling makeover, and finally reduce the noise. Sorry about the length of this post, but I hope it will be of help to others who have had the high temps I had.

Cheers,
Andy.

It's done.

Thanks to all who contributed to making this work for me. The advice has been so helpful and the patience legendary.

Quick summary:

Prime torture temps originally 83ºC
Idle temps (core) 45ºC
System temps 47ºC

Now...
Prime torture temps 58ºC
Idle temps (core) 29ºC
System temps 32ºC

If you were following my trials and tribulations, you'll have noted that the Arctic 7 Pro contributed a significant improvement in cooling. But so too did improving the case airflow, the final element being a 120mm low speed intake fan. The 80mm case fan appended to the fanless gfx card also gave a welcome cooling boost.

So, I'm happy. Over time I may increase my O/C and/or my cooling but this rig is so far improved in cooling terms over what it was originally, that I am extremely happy. If all the info that has preceded this post is of help to anyone else, then I'm very pleased for you. Being a noob and all, I don't expect my thread to be of any real significance to the veteran O/clocker, but hopefully it might give other noobs a start on their road to O/C nirvana.

Thanks again for the help and thanks for reading this thread.

Cheers,
Andy.

Tweaked the CPU voltage

Now 1.331V vcore which translates to 56ºC at Prime full load.

It's a small improvement I know but welcome all the same. Haven't run the Prime test long enough to establish if it's stable and as yet I don't have an idle temp, but I'll update when I have the info.

Ambients here are rising with summer approaching so I suspect that the reported temps will increase accordingly. Ambient today hit 23ºC so I would guess that the idle temps should be ~ 33ºC.

We'll see.

Other than that, the rig runs well.

Summary

Looks like this thread has done its dash so I'll post the 'final' updated figures and leave things here. This rig is stable on Prime overnight so I'm satisfied with the results. Thanks again to all those who helped with advice and for the patience of the community while I went through the noob's learning cycle.

Ambient temps - 20ºC for all
Old Prime torture (small TTF) max temps - 83ºC
New Prime torture (small TTF) max temps - 56ºC
Old idle temps - 45ºC
New idle temps - 27ºC - 31ºC
Old case temps - 47ºC
New case temps - 32ºC

If I get inspired enough to attempt an increased overclock with this E4500 in future, I'll start another thread. But really I'm thinking increasingly that I should upgrade to an E8400 and overclock to around 4.0GHz (on air) instead.

Probably not until next year though.

Cheers,
Andy

Merry Christmas

To all who celebrate it and happy holidays to those who don't.

And thanks again to the great people in this community who have been so helpful.

Hope your new year is as good as you would wish.

Cheers,
Andy.