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CPU not Warm/Hot

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Mikef1r3

Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
Toronto
Trying to diagnose this problem with my computer has been a troublesome affair. Wondering if anyone can let me know if a CPU can still be good even though it doesn't actually heat up/warm up even after trying to turn it on, fans run no beeps no post. Does the CPU start to warm up at that point? Because I already RMA'd my motherboard and PSU and this sucker still wont go but here's the funny thing. After changing the motherboard it booted 1 time... Then didn't boot again.

So anyone have any experience with this? or perhaps some insight if I should RMA this chip.





:comp:
 
Does that mobo come with a 4-LED POST diagnostic tool? Could be a host of things that would all result in no POST:

  • improper mobo grounding
  • bad RAM
  • bad power connection (CPU/PCIe)
  • lots of other stuff

That tool is mighty handy for narrowing down what the culprit is.
 
Last time i had a no boot, with the HS off, the CPU got very very hot very very very fast... like burn your finger hot... in less than 10 seconds.
 
Dumb question did you connect you 8 pin connecter and your 24 pin connecter to the motherboard? Also have you taken out all your memory and tried them one at a time in the first memory slot closes to the CPU. Also have you tried running your board outside you case on a table with just the video card and CPU and ram.:)
 
Last time i had a no boot, with the HS off, the CPU got very very hot very very very fast... like burn your finger hot... in less than 10 seconds.

Sorry but this doesnt sound like a smart move at all, you could of quite easily of fried you CPU.

First thing I would suggest is remove any un-necessary hardware, like sound cards, extra hard drives, DVD drive, literally just have your CPU, 1 stick of RAM, GFX card, and 1 hard drive plugged into the board, make sure all power connections are in, chances are your GFX card needs its own power connection, then clear the bios using the jumper on the board and/or removing the cmos battery, then give it another try.

It might be worth removing this lot from your computer case and building it up together on a sideboard or as I used to do just sit the board inside its original box, (non metallic surface), at least this way you will narrow down any shorts that maybe going on inside your case.
 
Sorry but this doesnt sound like a smart move at all, you could of quite easily of fried you CPU.

Not to worry Intel has thermal throttling and CPU thermal shutdown before there is any damage, at all.

Intel Core 2 Duo E4500,running naked,without heatsink & fan
LINK:

Intel P4 throttling
LINK:
 
Not to worry Intel has thermal throttling and CPU thermal shutdown before there is any damage, at all.

Yep, this used to be a great way to kill a pentium but those days are behind us since the advent of P4.

The "naked build" idea as several have proposed is a good one. If you want to do it inside the case, you can lay down the electrostatic non-conductive bag that your motherboard came in underneath the board. Oh, and you don't need a hard drive attached; cpu, one stick of RAM, and gfx card is sufficient to POST. Assuming everything's plugged in. :sly:
 
I like to just set a heatsink on the cpu. Not bolt it in or clip it on, just sorta plop it there with some thermal glop.
That way i'm not abusively testing the thermal throttling, but i'm not stressing the board either.

EDIT:
Within a second or two (tops) the top of the cpu will be at 99.9*c, that's 211*f, just so you know. Not something you want to touch as it'll boil water if you're at ~1000' above sea level or higher.
 
Gentleman all very good responses and i have done what most of you have stated. My computer is out of the case. And only the essentials plugged in. Ram, gfx card, cpu, no hard drive or keyboard or anything. The motherboard is plugged in properly 24 pin and 8 pin. im pretty sure that the styrofoam i have the motherboard on is not shorting anything out. And have changed the Ram 1 stick at a time and tried to boot it up... nothing. My little speaker is plugged in to the mobo and no beeps. so can the motherboard stop power from reaching the cpu? or should i try a new cpu before RMAing another motherboard?
 
Does the CPU fan spin when you try to power on?

Instead of using whatever power switch you're using, manually short the two +/- power pins on your mobo with a flathead screwdriver. I had a similar problem with a really old case and turns out the switch was bad. /facepalm
 
Does the CPU fan spin when you try to power on?

Instead of using whatever power switch you're using, manually short the two +/- power pins on your mobo with a flathead screwdriver. I had a similar problem with a really old case and turns out the switch was bad. /facepalm

My motherboard comes with an onboard on/of switch along with a reset button. So the switch is not broken.
 
You did a hard CMOS reset right? As in, PSU unplugged and remove the CMOS battery for 5 minutes or so.
 
I did say he has fried his CPU, throtteling will only work to a certain point, it doesnt shut down your CPU completely, it just drops the multipliers and voltages and there is only so far it will drop those, like he said it got very hot very quick, unlike that youtube video that you posted wingman99, where he manged to get into windows and even do some messing around with his PC and the temps still only got to the mid 50's, these core i's are a completely different kettle of fish, they are more like that prescott youtube video you posted, and he was hitting 77oC on that with a heatsink and fan attached.

Dont think intel are gonna help you out with that one mate, thats why bioses have options like shut down temps, and CPU fan fail shut downs etc, even if you CPU fan failed, your heatsink and throttling together would still provide you with a certain amount of protection, but having nothing on it at all, burning you finger on the CPU says it all, imagine how the silicon inside the CPU feels, i think the solder alone that holds the IHS on melts between 80-90oC.
 
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lol i have the same exact problem and i know exactly whats wrong, bent pins, i hot teh on button to try and test post and all i get is fans, one red LED labeled "dram led" (checked all ram and its all good) and ive swapped out all other hardware, and then i noticed teh fans on my gpu dont even spin, which leaves me to believe that my bent pins still arent good enough to work leaving my POST stuck in the cpu check

tl:dr....your cpu/mobo pins are fekked
 
I did say he has fried his CPU, throtteling will only work to a certain point, it doesnt shut down your CPU completely, it just drops the multipliers and voltages and there is only so far it will drop those, like he said it got very hot very quick, unlike that youtube video that you posted wingman99, where he manged to get into windows and even do some messing around with his PC and the temps still only got to the mid 50's, these core i's are a completely different kettle of fish, they are more like that prescott youtube video you posted, and he was hitting 77oC on that with a heatsink and fan attached.

Dont think intel are gonna help you out with that one mate, thats why bioses have options like shut down temps, and CPU fan fail shut downs etc, even if you CPU fan failed, your heatsink and throttling together would still provide you with a certain amount of protection, but having nothing on it at all, burning you finger on the CPU says it all, imagine how the silicon inside the CPU feels, i think the solder alone that holds the IHS on melts between 80-90oC.
You are incorrect on all points.

The youtube video Intel Core 2 Duo E4500,running naked,without heatsink & fan. The cpu reached a temp of 68c = 154.4F that is hot to the touch.

Prescott throttling P4
testing LINK:http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/p4-throttling/

QUOTE:This is a typical picture of how throttling begins. The screenshot was captured in another iteration as capturing the previous one had sort of "spilt" the graph quite significantly. However, time intervals and temperatures still repeat, with a quite high precision of plus/minus 3-4 seconds and 1-2 degrees. All in all, it takes about 20-25 seconds to reach the final stage since throttling begins. During the process, performance goes down by approximately 50 percent. CPU is "fully throttled" at around 80°C.

And 80C = 176F that is hot to the touch.

You can not shut off thermal trip on all intel products, from the P3 and all the proceeding Intel CPUs, thermal trip is internal only.

i3,i5,i7 specifications

LINK:http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/320834.pdf

QUOTE:6.2.2.4 Critical Temperature Flag
If TM2 is unable to reduce the processor temperature, then TM1 will be also be
activated. TM1 and TM2 will then work together to reduce power dissipation and
temperature. It is expected that only a catastrophic thermal solution failure would
create a situation where both TM1 and TM2 are active.
If TM1 and TM2 have both been active for greater than 20 ms and the processor
temperature has not dropped below the TCC activation point, then the Critical
Temperature Flag in the IA32_THERM_STATUS MSR will be set. This flag is an indicator
of a catastrophic thermal solution failure and that the processor cannot reduce its
temperature. Unless immediate action is taken to resolve the failure, the processor will
probably reach the Thermtrip temperature (see Section 6.2.3 Thermtrip Signal) within
a short time. To prevent possible permanent silicon damage, Intel recommends
removing power from the processor within ½ second of the Critical Temperature Flag
being set.

6.2.3 THERMTRIP# Signal
Regardless of whether or not Adaptive Thermal Monitor is enabled, in the event of a
catastrophic cooling failure, the processor will automatically shut down when the silicon
has reached an elevated temperature (refer to the THERMTRIP# definition in
Table 5-1). THERMTRIP# activation is independent of processor activity. The
temperature at which THERMTRIP# asserts is not user configurable and is not softwarevisible.

The TjMax for all of the I7 processors is 100 c. When this temperature is reached PROCHOT# is asserted, and the Thermal Control circuit (TCC) is activated.

Thermtrip is approximately 135°C on a i3-i5 -i7 core 2 duo P4 and Pentium III processors, Thermtrip is designed by intel engineers, to prevent silicon damage.

The new lead-less solders have a melting point of around 220 degrees celsius. LOL

A picture of thermal throttling on a core 2 duo it starts to throttle at 94c= 201.2F that is hot to the touch. Are you sure you should use you finger for a temp indicator.
 

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The new lead-less solders have a melting point of around 220 degrees celsius. LOL

220 are you joking lol, do you really think all those users who remove their IHS's are all really toasting their CPU upto 220oC, its 80-90 as stated here: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/305443-ihs-removals-how-do-should-i.html

this is not to be confused with core tempurature that software like realtemp reports, cores at 80oC, this doesnt mean everytime you prime your PC you are melting the solder, thier is a big difference between core temp and CPU temps.

if it really took 220oC to melt that solder then you would definatly have to kiss goodbye to your CPU, you mentioned that yourself, 135oC max to prevent silicon damage.
 
You cannot disable Thermal Trip as Wingman stated. I've started quite a few CPU's up with no HSF, to test that the board was functioning (after insulating), and they go on to function just fine. It's fairly hard to kill a CPU with heat alone. Excessive voltage can do it in an instant, excessive heat degrades the chip over time.
 
this is not to be confused with core tempurature that software like realtemp reports, cores at 80oC, this doesnt mean everytime you prime your PC you are melting the solder, thier is a big difference between core temp and CPU temps.
No there is not a big difference between core and die temp the probe is in-between the cores it's a small amount, however there is a big difference from the core to the IHS temp

220 are you joking lol, do you really think all those users who remove their IHS's are all really toasting their CPU upto 220oC, its 80-90 as stated here: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/305443-ihs-removals-how-do-should-i.html


if it really took 220oC to melt that solder then you would definatly have to kiss goodbye to your CPU, you mentioned that yourself, 135oC max to prevent silicon damage.
In that article you linked to they use a torch and they just heat the IHS vary fast the epoxy or Solder gets hot and the die stays under 130c however 75% of the people burned up the PCB and CPU.

E6750 enthauptet - E6750 IHS removing using a small torch = approximately 6000 degrees F= 3315.56 C Video link:

Sounds like you have not done any electronic soldering or seen it done in mass production. Hope this will help you out, so you will learn how this all works with 221c electrical lead free solder melting point.

Wave soldering Video LINK:

Reflow soldering Video LINK:

I found the exact solder they use for the die packaging. They just heat the solder not the die like the links above.

Solder LINK:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

Sn96.5Ag3.5 M.P. 221c [12] - yes Sn96, Sn96.5. Fine lamellar structure of densely distributed Ag3Sn. Annealing at 125 °C coarsens the structure and softens the solder.[9] Creeps via dislocation climb as a result of lattice diffusion.[7] Used as wire for hand soldering rework; compatible with SnCu0.7, SnAg3Cu0.5, SnAg3.9Cu0.6, and similar alloys. Used as solder spheres for BGA/CSP components. Used for step soldering and die attachment in high power devices. Established history in the industry.[9] Widely used. Strong lead-free joints. Silver content minimizes solubility of silver coatings. Not recommended for gold.[13]
 
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