Pre-Mod Thoughts Welcome

CaptainMorgan · Aug 28, 2010

First off, this site is a wealth of information - thank you to those who spend their free time contributing. I've learned so much in almost a month's time but now I think I've finally hit a crossroad.

I'm starting a system whereby I expect it to *not* be completed for quite some time - I'm hoping to have it up and running by this winter, but right now I'd like to do some testing. The main reason for the winter date is that I simply do not have the time during the week to work on it hence my weekend warrior outlook. And, with this being my first water cooling build, I'm not in a rush - I'd like to do whatever I can to get this right the first time. With this in mind, please note I haven't picked out GPUs yet because I figure by the time I'm ready to fire this baby up, hopefully the respective prices will come down, and I've got a few old cards that can be used if necessary solely for testing purposes.

Here is what I currently have in stock:

Obsidian 800D
Gigabyte X58A-UD5
i7 930 (with overclocking plans)
Blue Ray burner
Typhoon Split Windows - SD (Single Bay/Dual Loop)
NZXT Sentry 2 fan controller (single bay)
Corsair AX 1200 PSU

Here is what I'm planning to get:

2 GPUs (no overclocking plans as of yet)
2 Swiftech MCP 355
Swiftech Apogee XT CPU block
Black Ice GTX Gen Two Extreme 420 rad
3/8" by 1/2" (or 5/8" depending on vendor)
3/8" compression fittings
240 rad (or 280 rad for 2nd loop if I can fit it in the case)

I'm doing the 420 rad inside just like Bill Owen did for his HWC 800D commission, which required surgery for the top bay - hence why I opted for a single bay/dual loop reservoir, and which is also why I opted for the two 2 MPC 355s which can sit behind a component - say the fan controller - leaving me with an extra bay should I need it in the future. I wanted pumps out of the way as much as possible, and figuring I need two rads, everything inside the case as much as possible. I'm also planning to paint the case so there will be much work put into that, part-time. Also, all plans for fans will be 140s, so no 120s in this system.

Regarding the GPUs, I'm looking at the GTX 460-470, or a couple of good ATIs (their Eyefinity technology is appealing). My goal is to setup six monitors, with 4 being used by the system for heavy video editing, code compiling, mild CAD, a couple of latest games, etc, with the other 2 being controlled by a TV tuner(s).

My next purchases are the 420 rad, CPU block mentioned above, tubing, and fittings, because I'd like to test what I've already got. With this setup in mind, my question that I've been unable to determine an answer to is:

Should I use the 420 rad solely on the CPU or should I use the 240/280 rad for the CPU and let the 420 cool the 2 GPU cards (in SLI or Crossfire)?

And Lastly:

I've been looking into cooling the NB, but with this board, I've found it might be overkill - what do you think? Should I add the NB because I've got the 420 rad or no? (I realize the SB is kept cool on this board at least so not even going there)

Thank you!
-Capt

m0r7if3r · Aug 28, 2010

CaptainMorgan said:
First off, this site is a wealth of information - thank you to those who spend their free time contributing. I've learned so much in almost a month's time but now I think I've finally hit a crossroad.

:Welcome: to ocf, glad you decided to join us here

CaptainMorgan said:
I'm starting a system whereby I expect it to *not* be completed for quite some time - I'm hoping to have it up and running by this winter, but right now I'd like to do some testing. The main reason for the winter date is that I simply do not have the time during the week to work on it hence my weekend warrior outlook. And, with this being my first water cooling build, I'm not in a rush - I'd like to do whatever I can to get this right the first time. With this in mind, please note I haven't picked out GPUs yet because I figure by the time I'm ready to fire this baby up, hopefully the respective prices will come down, and I've got a few old cards that can be used if necessary solely for testing purposes.

Unless you're planning on going for a universal block watch out for this, the full cover blocks are gpu specific, so don't just grab anything...the universal ones also have some issues fitting the new gpu's, so once again, be careful, do your reading.

CaptainMorgan said:
Here is what I currently have in stock:

Obsidian 800D

Gigabyte X58A-UD5

i7 930 (with overclocking plans)

Blue Ray burner

Typhoon Split Windows - SD (Single Bay/Dual Loop)

NZXT Sentry 2 fan controller (single bay)

Corsair AX 1200 PSU

You may want to be careful with the typhoon, primochill has a pretty bad reputation for reses due to severe cracking issues with the primochill typhoon III. Also, watch it on the fan controller, it's pretty low wattage, so running all the fans off of it may be impossible, if you want to replace it, the lamptron fc5 or sunbeam rheobus are fantastic options.

CaptainMorgan said:
Here is what I'm planning to get:

2 GPUs (no overclocking plans as of yet)

2 Swiftech MCP 355

Swiftech Apogee XT CPU block

Black Ice GTX Gen Two Extreme 420 rad

3/8" by 1/2" (or 5/8" depending on vendor)

3/8" compression fittings

240 rad (or 280 rad for 2nd loop if I can fit it in the case)

you may want to think about ocing the gpu's, it's downright easy and is essentially free performance. The ddc pumps will fit in an xspc split res if you're interested. that cpu block is beaten in terms of performance, head over to skinneelabs.com and take a look-see. You made no mention of fans, read the skinneelabs review of that rad, you have to have about 2500rpm fans before it starts to really perform well enough to be worth the cost. I'm a 1/2" tubing fan, but it doesn't make much difference tbh...1/2" is just better about not kinking. Thicker walled tubing = better because you can make tighter turns.

CaptainMorgan said:
I'm doing the 420 rad inside just like Bill Owen did for his HWC 800D commission, which required surgery for the top bay - hence why I opted for a single bay/dual loop reservoir, and which is also why I opted for the two 2 MPC 355s which can sit behind a component - say the fan controller - leaving me with an extra bay should I need it in the future. I wanted pumps out of the way as much as possible, and figuring I need two rads, everything inside the case as much as possible. I'm also planning to paint the case so there will be much work put into that, part-time. Also, all plans for fans will be 140s, so no 120s in this system.

You're gonna have to do a LOT of work for a 420, why not go for a 480, it'll be easier to do and it'll allow you to use 120mm fans, which means you have access to the good selection of fans of the 120mm variety (there really aren't that many 140mm fans, the selection is nothing like 120mm). I mentioned the xspc split bay res, it is a double bay thing though...so if you need that space then you'll have to figure out something else for your 2 reses (microreses would work fine). Lookin forward to that paint job, I've only ever seen the 800d in black.

CaptainMorgan said:
Regarding the GPUs, I'm looking at the GTX 460-470, or a couple of good ATIs (their Eyefinity technology is appealing). My goal is to setup six monitors, with 4 being used by the system for heavy video editing, code compiling, mild CAD, a couple of latest games, etc, with the other 2 being controlled by a TV tuner(s).

If you want cad, nvidia is the way to go, I don't think ATi will do cad (you need the cuda cores don't you?). That said, if you want to run sextuple monitors, you will need 3 nvidia cards whereas you could do it on a single ati card...as for controlling things in different ways, tv tuners don't have outputs (mine doesn't), but you could open the window on various monitors...things do get angry across bezels though, and it really bugs me personally to look at...but if you're ok with it, go for it.

CaptainMorgan said:
My next purchases are the 420 rad, CPU block mentioned above, tubing, and fittings, because I'd like to test what I've already got. With this setup in mind, my question that I've been unable to determine an answer to is:

Should I use the 420 rad solely on the CPU or should I use the 240/280 rad for the CPU and let the 420 cool the 2 GPU cards (in SLI or Crossfire)?

i would put the cpu on the 420/480, that said, you're gonna be overraded on your cpu and underradded on your gpu...there's not a great solution for this that I can think of off the top of my head but to run 1 gfx with the cpu on the 480/420.

CaptainMorgan said:
And Lastly:

I've been looking into cooling the NB, but with this board, I've found it might be overkill - what do you think? Should I add the NB because I've got the 420 rad or no? (I realize the SB is kept cool on this board at least so not even going there)

It's just bling on ANY board, if you want it, go for it, but be aware, it's just bling...placement is difficult, because 3 gfx and a cpu on 120.4 + 140.2 is already starting to spread thin

CaptainMorgan said:
Thank you!
-Capt

You're welcome, hope it helps out some...how much reading have you done?

CaptainMorgan · Aug 28, 2010

Everything I'm planning or have in stock is pretty much open for change, which is why I felt a post was necessary at this time. And I'm glad I posted now because this is great information - thank you.

m0r7if3r said:
You may want to be careful with the typhoon, primochill has a pretty bad reputation for reses due to severe cracking issues with the primochill typhoon III. Also, watch it on the fan controller, it's pretty low wattage, so running all the fans off of it may be impossible, if you want to replace it, the lamptron fc5 or sunbeam rheobus are fantastic options.

I have this one here, and as far as I can tell it's not the T3:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Black_RES-TSP-SD-BK.html?tl=g30c97s168#blank
That aside, I wasn't able find a better single bay reservoir, which is pretty important to me, and I wanted to keep the reservoir from internal view such as the Bitspower Tank (cylinder), mainly due to in no specific order a) I want the inside of the case the least cluttered as possible, and b) I want to be able to see the res from the front of the case due to where this system will be positioned.

I'm glad you brought that up about the wattage because I couldn't decide if what I was planning was good: 2/3 case fans at about 1000-1500 rpms, controlled, and the three rad fans at a max of 2000 controlled. I'll have to worry about the 2nd rad later in reference to the fan controller... possibly I'm open to one of the rads, or the case fans, not being controlled and running at max.

m0r7if3r said:
you may want to think about ocing the gpu's, it's downright easy and is essentially free performance. The ddc pumps will fit in an xspc split res if you're interested. that cpu block is beaten in terms of performance, head over to skinneelabs.com and take a look-see.

You've convinced me pretty easily about overclocking the cards.

With regard to the block, I did notice that it was beat - but, correct me if I'm wrong, the AquaComputer block didn't make a tremendous improvement, and mixed with what Skinnee said of ease of use and installation not being as good as the Swiftech, since I'm new to this I figured the Swiftech wasn't a bad choice.

m0r7if3r said:
You made no mention of fans, read the skinneelabs review of that rad, you have to have about 2500rpm fans before it starts to really perform well enough to be worth the cost. I'm a 1/2" tubing fan, but it doesn't make much difference tbh...1/2" is just better about not kinking. Thicker walled tubing = better because you can make tighter turns.

The review was a little confusing to me since the one I saw used only rads with 120mm fans. Noted below in the next quote, is the CFM with close to 2000 RPM worth the tradeoff?

m0r7if3r said:
You're gonna have to do a LOT of work for a 420, why not go for a 480, it'll be easier to do and it'll allow you to use 120mm fans, which means you have access to the good selection of fans of the 120mm variety (there really aren't that many 140mm fans, the selection is nothing like 120mm). I mentioned the xspc split bay res, it is a double bay thing though...so if you need that space then you'll have to figure out something else for your 2 reses (microreses would work fine). Lookin forward to that paint job, I've only ever seen the 800d in black.

If I'm correct in what you mean by work: physically modding the case (and not fan CFM work, etc.), no worries because I'm looking forward to tearing this case apart. If I am wrong by what you meant, I'm looking into either Noiseblockers or YLs for the rads which have a 1900/2000 rpm max respectively and Scythes for case fans, with one of these vendors pushing 140+ CFMs. I don't think I can fit a 480 inside the top part of the case, hence the 420. And, from the reading I've done, surely the selection of 140s are poor, but it was a tradeoff I was willing to make (I hope) for the right fan(s) and purpose of the system - good size CFMs, in some instances with good enough dbAs, etc.

I've only seen it in two colors, black and the color here:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...35-hardware-canucks-custom-case-mnpctech.html
I'm planning a different, low-profile color. :beer:

m0r7if3r said:
If you want cad, nvidia is the way to go, I don't think ATi will do cad (you need the cuda cores don't you?). That said, if you want to run sextuple monitors, you will need 3 nvidia cards whereas you could do it on a single ati card...as for controlling things in different ways, tv tuners don't have outputs (mine doesn't), but you could open the window on various monitors...things do get angry across bezels though, and it really bugs me personally to look at...but if you're ok with it, go for it.

I switched to Nvidia a couple years ago and I've just been in total love with them - but the lack of high number monitor support such as that with ATI, has been bugging me. I haven't studied ATI lately so I'll have to do some looking up about CAD issues.

m0r7if3r said:
i would put the cpu on the 420/480, that said, you're gonna be overraded on your cpu and underradded on your gpu...there's not a great solution for this that I can think of off the top of my head but to run 1 gfx with the cpu on the 480/420.

This is interesting, and I'm glad I asked it, because I pondered putting the 240/280 on the CPU because I thought the 420/480 would be overkill - overradded on the CPU and thus not a wise choice. If I was to stick with my fav - Nvidia - and be forced to run 3 cards, would you recommend putting the 420/480 on the cards at that point?

m0r7if3r said:
You're welcome, hope it helps out some...how much reading have you done?

Definitely not enough of course, maybe as much as any newbie with a good amount of time this summer... I started reading before I joined here - so I'd say the end of July... plus before this time I knew absolutely nothing about WC, but enough to know I needed to switch from AC enough to spend the planning time and necessary work. Many stickies from here, XstremeSystems, TomsHardware, and of course Skinnee Labs (which is priceless info), along with various posts. As you know there is a ton of resources out there, but on given any day, I may be usually looking for at most a handful of parts and their respective information, and the data can get mixed up very fast.

I appreciate your insight because I've read a lot of your posts, along with Connundrum and you guys put a lot of information out there and you're both very dedicated to what we do as enthusiasts. Cheers. :attn:

m0r7if3r · Aug 28, 2010

CaptainMorgan said:
Everything I'm planning or have in stock is pretty much open for change, which is why I felt a post was necessary at this time. And I'm glad I posted now because this is great information - thank you.

np man, everyone was where you were at some point

CaptainMorgan said:
I have this one here, and as far as I can tell it's not the T3:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Black_RES-TSP-SD-BK.html?tl=g30c97s168#blank
That aside, I wasn't able find a better single bay reservoir, which is pretty important to me, and I wanted to keep the reservoir from internal view such as the Bitspower Tank (cylinder), mainly due to in no specific order a) I want the inside of the case the least cluttered as possible, and b) I want to be able to see the res from the front of the case due to where this system will be positioned.

ah, I see now...yea, I didn't notice it was dual loop when I did a quick pull up of it. I'd never actually heard of that res until now, which is a good thing if it's been around a while because that means that the issues haven't been major enough to report or there haven't been issues. Mounting the pump might be a bit tricky. I think the way I would go about it would be to mount it on the bottom of the external drive bays' cage, there seems to be plenty of room there. That said, the issue with that will lie in the fact that you then cannot use a full length drive in that space. The 355 is very low profile, so you could tuck it away right at the base of the case, below the window and it wouldn't be visible. If you did that you might even be able to use the restop and maintain no visibility, you wouldn't have front side visibility then though. The only real disadvantage I can see to mounting on the floor is that you'd have a tubing run down, but you could run it discretely.

CaptainMorgan said:
I'm glad you brought that up about the wattage because I couldn't decide if what I was planning was good: 2/3 case fans at about 1000-1500 rpms, controlled, and the three rad fans at a max of 2000 controlled. I'll have to worry about the 2nd rad later in reference to the fan controller... possibly I'm open to one of the rads, or the case fans, not being controlled and running at max.

Well, with a higher wattage/channel controller you could put multiple fans on a channel with either a splitter or by just clipping and soldering.

CaptainMorgan said:
You've convinced me pretty easily about overclocking the cards. With regard to the block, I did notice that it was beat - but, correct me if I'm wrong, the AquaComputer block didn't make a tremendous improvement, and mixed with what Skinnee said of ease of use and installation not being as good as the Swiftech, since I'm new to this I figured the Swiftech wasn't a bad choice.

I was actually talking about the EK supreme HF and the EK Supreme HF full copper, the full copper is actually supposed to outperform the original. That said, ease of mounting is a viable concern and the xt is still a good block, but it's flow is quite low, not so much a concern unless you put a gpu in there with the cpu.

CaptainMorgan said:
The review was a little confusing to me since the one I saw used only rads with 120mm fans. Noted below in the next quote, is the CFM with close to 2000 RPM worth the tradeoff?

What's really important for the gtx360 (and thus the 420 and 480) is that the fans have a lot of static pressure with that high cfm. Static pressure and flow behave exactly like flow and head do on a pump, so you have a pq curve...have you seen this? That's my bible when it comes to fans, because you can interpolate/extrapolate wit any fans that haven't been reviewed and see how they will perform.

CaptainMorgan said:
If I'm correct in what you mean by work: physically modding the case (and not fan CFM work, etc.), no worries because I'm looking forward to tearing this case apart. If I am wrong by what you meant, I'm looking into either Noiseblockers or YLs for the rads which have a 1900/2000 rpm max respectively and Scythes for case fans, with one of these vendors pushing 140+ CFMs. I don't think I can fit a 480 inside the top part of the case, hence the 420. And, from the reading I've done, surely the selection of 140s are poor, but it was a tradeoff I was willing to make (I hope) for the right fan(s) and purpose of the system - good size CFMs, in some instances with good enough dbAs, etc.

I suppose...I've never seen a 140mm fan that I thought would work for a gtx420, but I also haven't looked into 140mm fans too much. I don't think that yates will work on a gtx420 though...just not enough cfms on it.

Are the scythe case fans you're talking about slipstreams? If so, you want to reconsider, they're not good fans at all and the numbers are WAY WAY WAY inflated.

CaptainMorgan said:
I've only seen it in two colors, black and the color here:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...35-hardware-canucks-custom-case-mnpctech.html
I'm planning a different, low-profile color.

that is...wow

CaptainMorgan said:
I switched to Nvidia a couple years ago and I've just been in total love with them - but the lack of high number monitor support such as that with ATI, has been bugging me. I haven't studied ATI lately so I'll have to do some looking up about CAD issues.

I know some cad requires the CUDA cores...some may not though...you could run dual ati cards and then an nvidia engineering card (quadro series) for your cad I think...I know the enthusiast cards don't play nice though.

CaptainMorgan said:
This is interesting, and I'm glad I asked it, because I pondered putting the 240/280 on the CPU because I thought the 420/480 would be overkill - overradded on the CPU and thus not a wise choice. If I was to stick with my fav - Nvidia - and be forced to run 3 cards, would you recommend putting the 420/480 on the cards at that point?

This is really tough. I like to see ~120.1 of rad per gfx card and more if possible...I think that I would tackle it by putting 2 gfx on the smaller and 1 cpu and 1 gfx on the larger, you should have enough rad (especially with a 480) that the temps of your cpu wouldn't suffer.

CaptainMorgan said:
Definitely not enough of course, maybe as much as any newbie with a good amount of time this summer... I started reading before I joined here - so I'd say the end of July... plus before this time I knew absolutely nothing about WC, but enough to know I needed to switch from AC enough to spend the planning time and necessary work. Many stickies from here, XstremeSystems, TomsHardware, and of course Skinnee Labs (which is priceless info), along with various posts. As you know there is a ton of resources out there, but on given any day, I may be usually looking for at most a handful of parts and their respective information, and the data can get mixed up very fast.

make sure you've read the entire sticky here, it's good info. Do you understand dT yet? If not, do some reading on that, that's an important concept to grasp.

boucher91 · Aug 28, 2010

we use autocad inventor at work with all kinds of gpu...
some are waaaaay slower than others...
when the object gets highly detailed (many facets/surfaces/holes,etc...)
theres where the different gpus make the difference, the nvidia cards blow the ati's...

m0r7if3r · Aug 28, 2010

boucher91 said:
we use autocad inventor at work with all kinds of gpu...
some are waaaaay slower than others...
when the object gets highly detailed (many facets/surfaces/holes,etc...)
theres where the different gpus make the difference, the nvidia cards blow the ati's...

are you saying nvidia is better or ati?

boucher91 · Aug 28, 2010

nvidia is faster at rendering the objects...comes to view faster
ati may look prettier depending on the mem and gpu...\
the onboard intel does ok but really slow.....
there 6 different pcs linked to a server using vault....every stinkin 1 is different...lol i had to set it all up
with inventor you can specify the gpu and the program will use the gpu the best it can..

m0r7if3r · Aug 28, 2010

Shouldn't it all look the same on cards of similar power?

Bobnova · Aug 28, 2010

I don't buy it, it's not going to look prettier with one brand of card, it's rendered to the specs of the program, and the GPU (and especially the GPU's ram) isn't going to change how it looks).

Pre-Mod Thoughts Welcome

CaptainMorgan

New Member

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O

CaptainMorgan

New Member

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O

boucher91

Member

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O

boucher91

Member

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O

Bobnova

Senior Member

Similar threads