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2.4c + G.skill PC4400

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Navig

Senior Case Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Hi all,

I’ve been hunting around for some decent RAM lately to pair with my champion 2.4c. I’ve run this baby at stock voltage FSB 290 for a while now, 3:2 with some BH-5. I debated for a long time between going after some decent hynix based (OCZ EL) vs new high speed tccd (g.skill PC4400). I decided to go ahead and try out the g.skill, given the broad range of available settings (2-2-2-5@PC3200) + the future possibility of an Athlon64 system for which this RAM is pretty much unequaled.

About the cpu: I’ve had this 2.4c since October, 2003. I think I picked it up for about $150. Its an SL6WF Malay. I believe the highest I’ve had it double Prime95 stable is in the FSB305 range, the highest I’ve had it into windows is FSB320.

I’ll be testing it against some Kingston PC3000 BH-5. They will do FSB230s 2-2-2-5 with 3.2V, FSB 240s with relaxed timings.

I’ve got 3 motherboards, an mostly unmodded P4C800e-dlx and 2 IC7Max3s. The P4C800e-dlx has only 1 mod, the most basic and common, that is it has the IC7Max3 northbridge heatsink, instead of the passive stock Asus sink. Both IC7Max3s are madcat vTT modded, allowing 3.2V RAM voltage, and one is core droopmodded.

Video cards: sapphire 9600 pro for the P4C800, Ati 9800 pro for the IC7Max3.

G.skill PC4400 Model F1-3200DSU2-1GBLE. I’m sorry, I guess I picked up the last pair at newegg. I know PC4800 is rumored to be coming out in more than 256mb sticks, but I’m getting’ tired of waiting. Special thanks to jack at g.skill, who answered a long string of emails for me.

Packaging1.jpg

Obviously, g.skill doesn’t put a whole lot into packaging. Flimsy packaging that arrived breached in the corner, generic background paper, and bare sticks. Do they have it where it counts, tho?

memorychip1.jpg

Samsung 431 chips. I’ve heard of 434, 437, and 440 chips, and I’m not entirely certain the nuances of each. Here is what I’ve gleaned regarding tccd. Work better than crack for Athlon64 systems, stable rates of >300mhz no probs.

Reports of testing when paired with Intel products have been much much more scarce, which has prompted this extensive review by yours truly. [email protected]l tech labs was clear that I shouldn’t expect such performance with P4s, perhaps in the FSB270 range. I’m going drop the ominous foreshadowing, I’ve gotten FSB295 dual channel double Prime95 stable and I’m still going higher. For me this product has exceeded my expectations, and makes me wonder whether the more pessimistic reviews are more a result from cpus/motherboards not up to the task (I certainly ran into this issue).
 
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The 440's are what is being used on the LA's...these are the chips that run at 300FSB/HT...the 431's are second best...these can usally hit 300FSB also...but not as well as the 440's...

Give your skills a few weeks to settle in...then let the fun begin :D...

Those 431's should hit up to 290 - 295 at 5-3-3-2.5 with between 2.75 and 2.85v after they settle in...

I just tested a set of LE's that had the 440's...they maxed out my board at 1:1 settings...298...at 5-3-3-2.5/1:1/1T/2.85v 100% stable...and the ram was hardly warm after a few hours of use at 2.85v...didnt test to see how well they did in single mode...

See sig for my 24/7 OC with my LC's...

And if you have any problems that cant wait for a email...

G. Skill Forum

Or you can ask Onepagebook at XS...he is G. Skills rep over at XS...
 
On benchmarking. To test for stability, I run at least 20 minutes of memtest 1.50 and 20 minutes of double instances of Prime95, small FFTs. My tools are sisoft sandra 2005 lite, buffered and unbuffered bandwith, UT2K3 [H]ardocp cpu bench 1024x768, 3dmark01se, 3dmark03, PCMark04. Everybody’s interested in bandwith. The UT2K3 is by far and away my favorite cpu bench. I’ve found it to be consistent to 0.5fps, sensitive to 1-2 FSB mhz differences, and takes 20 seconds to run. 3dmark01se adds videocard/agp stability to cpu benching. 3dmark03 is essentially a negative control for videocard/agp stability (except for the cpu bench, it is almost entirely video card dpendent). PCMark04 is nice in my mind as it runs thru some basic common tasks. If anyone else has some suggestions for benches, let me know.

I’ll begin with P4C800e-dlx, mostly because it’s in Mrs. Navig’s machine, she’s asleep right now, and she hates it when I tinker with her machine. Other components: UltraX connect 500W, thermalright sp94, WD 80gb 7200rpm 8mb cache, WinXP home SP2.

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + BH-5 2.85V Perfomance mode standard (don’t really know what this does, but it had to be set to std for PAT on cpuz to be enabled)
2-2-2-5
FSB200
Buffered Bandwith: 4904/4891
Unbuffered Bandwith: 3082/3160
UT2K3: 131.6
3dmark01se: 11391
3dmark03/cpu: 3188/727
PCMark04: 3919

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + BH-5 2.85V Performance mode standard
2-2-2-5
FSB210 = Max stable FSB for 2-2-2-5
Buffered Bandwith: 5191/5197
Unbuffered Bandwith: 3107/3184
UT2K3: 138.3
3dmark01se: 11649
3dmark03/cpu: 3196
PCMark04: 4115

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + BH-5 2.85V Performance mode standard
2.5-4-4-8 (loosest stable timings)
FSB233 = Max stable FSB for 2.5-4-4-8
Buffered Bandwith: 5481/5371
Unbuffered Bandwith: 2857/2931
UT2K3: 144.3
3dmark01se: 11885
3dmark03/cpu: 3205
PCMark04: 4421

Notes: These are my baseline BH-5 numbers. The only somewhat unexpected finding is that the unbuffered bandwith of FSB233/2.5-4-4-8 was slower, implying timings weigh heavily on unbuf BW. However, every other bench was higher, indicating that timings really aren’t that important for P4s.

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c at 3.48ghz “Auto voltage” + BH-5 2.85V Performance mode standard
2.5-4-4-8 (loosest stable timings) running at 290*2/3=193mhz
FSB290 3:2
Buffered Bandwith: 5469/5468
Unbuffered Bandwith: 2481/2515
UT2K3: 161.4
 
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Thanks, glock, I've definitely got some work on them. I tried a number of FSBs with 2.5-3-3-7 where 2.5-4-4-8 was stable (FSB 290) and they wouldn't even post, but I've still got plenty of testing. I generally run with good active RAM cooling, they haven't gotten warm on me yet either.
 
I had a few issues at first...but my issues could of been with the NEO2...but after a few days of tweaking...275 was no problems...

One thing...something I found out along with some other people...if high voltages do not work...try lowering the voltage...I found the best settings for 275/8-4-4-2.5 (LC's default) ran better at 2.65v then at 2.7v default...

But once you get the "bugs" worked out...you will be so happy..especially able to run your Intel at 1:1 now :D...

And people wonder why I pimp the G. Skills :D
 
P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + G.skill PC4400 2.65V Performance mode standard
2-2-2-5
FSB200
Buffered Bandwith: 4934/4909
Unbuffered Bandwith: 3042/3134
UT2K3: 132.8
3dmark01se: 11564
3dmark03/cpu: 3188/777
PCMark04: 3930

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + G.skill PC4400 2.65V Performance mode standard
2-2-2-5
FSB205 = Max stable FSB for 2.65V
Didn’t bother benching this

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c “Auto voltage” + G.skill PC4400 2.85V Performance mode standard
2-2-2-5
FSB210 = Max stable FSB for 2.85V
Didn’t bother benching this

Notes: not significantly different than BH-5 here. Not going too far with super tight timings, but adding voltage did help. Okay, let's add some FSB!
 
You will notice the difference more when OCing and running tighter timings at higher FSB...

If you haven't seen this thread before...this was about a week or two after giving the Skills time to settle in...not calling it a burn in because with todays hardware and the way the hardware is tested before it hits the comsumer...it is already burned in...some hardware just needs time to settle in with the different componets...

275/5-3-3-2.5/1T/1:1 Benchmarks

Your LE's should do much better then my LC's when it comes to tighter timings are higher FSB...once you get everything tweaked ;)...
 
Max Stable FSB

P4C800e-dlx
2.4c at 3.54ghz 1.675V + G.skill PC4400 2.85V Performance mode standard
2.5-4-4-8
FSB295
Buffered Bandwith: 6951/6952
Unbuffered Bandwith: 3750/3810
UT2K3: 171.6
3dmark01se: 12226
3dmark03/cpu: 3253/991
PCMark04: 5438

Some confirmatory pics:
Prime95 20 minutes stable
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v363/navig/P4 Rig/FSB295dp95.jpg

3dmark01se
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v363/navig/P4 Rig/FSB2953dmark01se.jpg

Now I did manage FSB 298 stable for about 5 minutes of double Prime95. Here’s the issue, my P4C800 is drooping like mad. Setting to 1.675V and dropping to 1.52V under 100% load is just to saggy, and I’m not all that comfortable to setting any higher in the bios. So I think I may revisit this after I’ve droopmodded it.

Any more suggestions before I pull this cpu and plug it into my Max3s?
 
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295 is a very nice OC on 1:1 with that intel...now that you know they will hit those timings and settings...give it a few days to a week running at default timings and then try 295...can almost be 99.9% sure they will do around 5-3-3-2.5 or 6-3-3-2.5 at 2.85v :D
 
low 3dmark01 score?

Your 3dmark01 scores seem lil low, no? I have same setup pretty much [email protected] (285fsb) 2.5-5-4-3 ocz el, 9800 pro and get almost 22k, yours is 10k lower?
 
Airness23 said:
Your 3dmark01 scores seem lil low, no? I have same setup pretty much [email protected] (285fsb) 2.5-5-4-3 ocz el, 9800 pro and get almost 22k, yours is 10k lower?

Glock - Thx for the link to the G.Skill forum. :beer:

Navig - Good running into you again.

My last three builds have all used 2 x 256 LE, & I absolutely love 'em! :thup:

I've only been running in the 270 -280 range, but my last build is only 3 days old, running 278FSB while crunching dual instances of CPDN 24/7, & I haven't really tried pushing it hard yet.

Yah, baby...I'm hooked on G.Skill; no ifs, ands, or buts! :cool:

Prices been coming down nicely, over the last month, too! :clap:

Strat
 
Stratcat said:
Prices been coming down nicely, over the last month, too!

No problem on the link...but I have to ask where you are getting yours because newegg has actually going up 13.00 on the LC's from Dec. when I bought mine...at the time I bought mine...prices where

LC = 230.00 w/instant 15.00 rebate = 215.00 + free shipping
LE = 245.00 w/instant 15.00 rebate = 230.00 + free shipping (was sold out when I ordered my set and didnt want to wait another 4 days)

As of right now the prices are

LC = 242.99 + 4.33 shipping
LE = 262.99 + 4.33 shipping

Side note...newegg sold out of the LE's in 1 day today...they just got the new shipment in/posted today and already have a ETA of 2/7/05...still debating on getting a set of LA's though...
 
Hi Glock -

I've been only using 2 x 256 (512MB), since all my machines, c'ept my main (sig) rig, are OC'd bare-bones machines used exclusively for Distributed Computing 24/7, run headless thru a KVM.

Been getting mine from Excaliber.

Not much of a selection, but they were the first Stateside to carry G.Skill besides the Yahoo site. Original price for 2 x 256 LE was $150 around 8 weeks ago (early Dec?). Now $129 for the past several weeks.

Looks like I'm gonna' have to go to the Egg if I want LA next time.

I'm a DC'er in a (mostly) Gamer's forum, so I guess this source isn't much help if you need a full Gig. I get by fine on 512MB.

Strat
 
Stratcat said:
Hi Glock -

I've been only using 2 x 256 (512MB), since all my machines, c'ept my main (sig) rig, are OC'd bare-bones machines used exclusively for Distributed Computing 24/7.

Been getting mine from Excaliber.

Not much of a selection, but they were the first Stateside to carry G.Skill besides the Yahoo site. Original price for 2 x 256 LE was $150 around 8 weeks ago (early Dec?). Now $129 for the past several weeks.

Looks like I'm gonna' have to go to the Egg if I want LA next time.

I'm a DC'er in a (mostly) Gamer's forum, so I guess this source isn't much help if you need a full Gig. I get by fine on 512MB.

Strat

I would of ordered from Ex..but at that time is when they stopped taking orders and locked the doors for local pickups (when I had the money to get my Skills)...and even with them reopening back up by Monday...I seriously doubt I do buiness with them again...

With some people they never informed them of their closing and a few people didnt get their RMA's back for almost 3 weeks...with no email nor would they pick up the phone to explain/talk to the customers that had RMA's...

I was really happy with them until they pulled that crap...I have a thread in vendor disc. about Excailberpc and this...

This is also why they havent had that big of a selection the last month ;)...

Hopefully, with Skills becoming more popular...a few more retailers will pick them up here soon...that way newegg wont just keep upping the prices...

As for the Gig...The LA 1G DC kits are rated at 2T while the 512 DC ktis are rated at 1T...so with the LA's I would be going 512 DC anyways ;)...thanks for the reply :)...
 
RE: Ex

WOW - I wasn't even aware of them having probs. I mainly use Egg & ZZF, but have used Ex at least 5 or 6 times over the last several years, for odds & ends, w/o any probs at all. My last month's delivery (2 x 256 LE) was only 3 days from my Sunday nite order, to my door, Wednesday, in Chicago.

Thanks for the heads up.

Watch out for Monarch, too. Had probs getting an OCZ Powerstream PSU between the holidays, when everyone else Stateside was OOS. Finally got it, but lots of hassles, & it was missing the EPS-24P to ATX-20P adaptor! I ended up buying the adaptor locally.

I first picked up on G.Skill when it was only available from Digi4me.

Thier shipping prices & ETA's are pretty ridiculous, IMO, & they seem a little dodgy compared to the big guys. But I've seen some posts from peeps, where they delivered the goods AOK, before G.Skill had any other reps in the States. Doubt if I'd use 'em, though.

Strat
 
Stratcat said:

Another heads up for you ;)

Not a good rating

6.25 6 month
5.54 lifetime

Latest review

"12/17/04 5:04 PM (1 of 1 users found this review helpful)
The merchant sent me the wrong items, at a small price difference, but refused to pay for return shipping. Instead "Susan" insisted that I RMA the items instead.

I told them I would not pay for return shipping and have heard no further response.

Basically, I believe that they substituted shorter cables on purpose to make up their cost on their coupon for "free" shipping, believing that the Customer would just eat it rather than hassle with the return.

I wish I looked at the other reviews for this merchant before I gave them any money! "

Resellers Rating
 
glock19owner said:
Another heads up for you ;)

Not a good rating

6.25 6 month
5.54 lifetime

Latest review

"12/17/04 5:04 PM (1 of 1 users found this review helpful)
The merchant sent me the wrong items, at a small price difference, but refused to pay for return shipping. Instead "Susan" insisted that I RMA the items instead.

I told them I would not pay for return shipping and have heard no further response.

Basically, I believe that they substituted shorter cables on purpose to make up their cost on their coupon for "free" shipping, believing that the Customer would just eat it rather than hassle with the return.

I wish I looked at the other reviews for this merchant before I gave them any money! "

Resellers Rating

Thx - Guess my instincts were right.

Strat
 
airness, I was benching my P4C800 with a sapphire 9600 pro. Moving things around Mrs. Navig's clearpc acrylic case is a bit of a pain. My IC7Max3 numbers will all be with a 9800 pro.

I've gotten a sense over the last 6 months, there's been a general downswing in vendors overall "niceness". End of the year financial reviews? When I put in the order for the LEs from newegg I wanted to add a 92mm fan and a cable adaptor, suddenly the shipping jumped up to like $15. Excaliberpc closing. Does ZZF even have g.skill?

navig
 
Navig said:
airness, I was benching my P4C800 with a sapphire 9600 pro. Moving things around Mrs. Navig's clearpc acrylic case is a bit of a pain. My IC7Max3 numbers will all be with a 9800 pro.

I've gotten a sense over the last 6 months, there's been a general downswing in vendors overall "niceness". End of the year financial reviews? When I put in the order for the LEs from newegg I wanted to add a 92mm fan and a cable adaptor, suddenly the shipping jumped up to like $15. Excaliberpc closing. Does ZZF even have g.skill?

navig

Excailiberpc is reopening by the 7th...as for Newegg...if you call them...a lot of times they will combine the shipping so you are not paying shipper per with a bunch of small things added...

No...ZZF does not carry G. Skills at this time...
 
Testing has stalled a bit with my Abit motherboards. I'm stuck in the FSB 270 range. In a ironic turn, in order to cool my northbridge better while fitting my xp120, my easiest option was to mount the Asus northbridge heatsink, and mount a high speed 40mm fan on top of it. I'll probably take my Abit northbridge and grind off a few fins to make it compatible with my xp120. This brought the FSB to 275.

So yes, I am running my Asus P4C800e-dlx with an Abit northbridge sink, and my Abit IC7Max3 with an Asus northbridge sink. Guess I should post some pics at some point.

I believe my RAM is getting too hot--they are physically very hot to the touch at 2.9-3.0V. I've got some sinks in the mail (with that great xp90 deal from xoxide). So I'll be back then.

navig
 
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