AMD 8120 and AsusM5a97 and overclocking

[Bion1985]

I would like to get a clock somewhere between 4.5-4.7 currently at 4.3 with the vcore set to 1.493 using only the multipler in the bios. Tems seem good just when I run prime95 on any clock over 4.3 I either have the system freeze up on me or multiple core tests fail out (2-3 on average) Not home with the system but I'll try to provide as much input as I can. Mobo is a Asus M5a97 running 8 gb of 1866 ram with a Cooler Master Seidon water cooler. Anyone got some pointers or tips, maybe something I'm missing? Pretty sure I got all the stuff disabled that could hinder the oc.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Welcome to the forum Bion, we will need a bit more information to see what is what. Down load Cpu-Z and Hwmonitor "non pro", seeing a screen shot of Hwmonitor under load will tell a lot but if the Pc is freezing when you start prime virtually impossible. So if you can at a minimum provide us with screen shots of the following tabs in Cpu-Z it will be helpful, Cpu Spd, and Memory. Asus makes at least 4 different versions of the M5A97 motherboard, which one you have will be critical in how far you are able to overclock. It is likely you will not see the 4.5-4.7 Oc you are hoping for out of even the top M5A97 board. Your freezing could be caused be a few things but I will bet the board you have just doesn't have the power to feed the chip the volts it needs to run at 4.3 ghz.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

4.3 with the vcore set to 1.493

Yea them early chips are hit or miss. If your already this high up on voltage and can't get more.... you'll be battling temps after the 1.5v and up range.

if the Pc is freezing when you start prime virtually impossible.

My sig rig will freeze. It's generally a low volt hang. His chip is 81xx series, generally takes more juice to get these to fly. In most cases, 4.8ghz is about the best they do even with good temps. Most 4100's are lucky to even get a validation at 5ghz even pounding voltage.

It's like C2 phenom vs C3. The C3 just clocks higher with better voltage on average.

Expectations can't be delivered without some FULL system specs. Just because you have an 8 series chip doesn't mean a 550w PSU is up to the task either.

 

[Bion1985]

I will have to check when I get home but I'm like 99.9% sure I have the standard M5a97 not like the evo pro or r2. I can try to get some screenshots also. Already have cpuz and hwmonitor installed. As far as I can tell so far 4.3 seems to run alright its just when I go to push much farther than that and do p95 tests I start to notice things. I had it at 4.5ghz and it would run 3dmark but when I tried p95 it ran for s few minutes and just froze up.

Edit: also since I can provide this info now and I saw someone bring up power supply, I have a 850w ocz psu.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

when I tried p95 it ran for s few minutes and just froze up.

Lower the Cpu temps and go for more voltage.

But so far, we don't know what your temps are like on current settings. Where you like 50c, or 60c? If your down in the 40c range, you got room for more voltage. Just gotta take it a little at a time.

 

[Bion1985]

Think at 4.3-4.5 (for as long as prime would run) I had see it go up to like 55-56c

Edit: the next step in voltage from where I stand now is 1.5 I've read you really don't want to exceed that, how true is that?

 

[RGone]

Welcome to OCF...

...

This is what we need to see for sure and a real good starting point.

Normally during setup and testing we disable C1/E, C6, Cool N Quiet, APM, TurboCore and in windows performance manager itself we set to "performance" mode. ALSO if you have HPC in bios you would ENABLE it. That way there are not "other" settings messing with the overclocking process. Some of those settings are not available on all models of cpu but where in evidence we disable for setup of overclock process.

CPU Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

Memory Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

SPD Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

And this is screen capture of HWMonitor (free version) from CPUID com
HWMonitor has been scrolled enough and large enough to show Min/Max of Voltages and includes the CPU CORE TEMPS / "package" temps fully visible. Latest versions of HWMonitor show the CPU Core Temp as " a Package Temp" and is only shown as a single temp since there were never multple, individual core temp sensors anyway.

This capture is made of HWMonitor after it has been open and running on the desktop logging Min/Max temps and voltages while Prime 95 was running Blend Mode test on all cores for at least 20 mins and then the capture of HWMonitor was made and it shows the Min/Max temps and voltages before P95 Blend was started and while running P95 Blend mode and gives much greater insight into how the system is performing without guessing.

In order to attach screenshots of INDIVIDUAL images as suggested, first crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool found in Windows Accessories or equivalent. Then click on Go Advanced, a button at the bottom of every new post window. Then click on the little paperclip tool at the top of the Advanced post window when it opens. Clicking on the paperclip tool brings up the file browser/upload tool and the rest is fairly obvious.

Step by Step HowTo Attach files to forum with pictures.
HowTo Attach Files to the forum.

RGone...

 

[Bion1985]

I'll try this when I get home thanks. So if all I can currently get is the screens of my 4.3ghz clock will that still be helpful? Also thanks to everyone who welcomed me, really hope to learn alot more about clocking.

 

[RGone]

the screens of my 4.3ghz clock will that still be helpful?

Only if it is done as outlined above which means "while" under a load of P95 Blend mode with HWMonitor Free open/running and logging min/max volts and temps.

What I wrote above tells you how to setup to test and even what to do with windows power manager and temps to look out for. It is pretty complete description of how to test so we all get on the same page.

You get five posts and you need to make a signature very similar to what you read in green and red in my signature at bottom of my post.

RGone...

 

[Bion1985]

 

[RGone]

What is seen...

...with your very well done screen captures.

This is diagram of best air flow in and out of case for 95% of users.

There have been far more than just a few users with issues clocking an FX-8core cpu to clocks in the 4.5GHz range with the M5A97 of 'any' revision. Yours happens to be a Rev 1.02 or the first version Asus released as close as I can tell. The M5A97 only has a 4 +2 phase power delivery section and that means only 4 phases to send power to the cpu. We have been strongly urging as do many sites that 8 Core FX processors do far better with 8+2 phase power delivery circuit.

If you notice your cpu temp is already to 71c when we recommend that cpu temp n0t exceed 72c for 24/7 use. Your cpu Package/Core temp of 49c is still quite some distance from the recommended max of 62c.

It is possible that the VRM 4 phase power delivery circuit to the cpu can fail from overwork and take out cpu and memory and video card...it may not take out any but the board or might get all of the other parts.

Here are a couple of pics of things we do to the VRM for cooling to extend life and to lower that cpu temp. All of us even with much better suited boards have to do this when we put on watercooling since there is no "spill-over" air coming from an air cooled cpu cooler.

VRM - Socket cooling for AMD FX processor use.

Johan lighted blue fan showing thru rear of case.

Johan entire image lighted to show where the blue fan above is located.

Trents 2 x 50mm fans on VRMs.

Johan originally had rear mobo cooling fan like this.

With less powerful VRM circuit it is 'highly' suggested you make some form of plans for additional VRM / Cpu-Socket cooling. Most certainly since you seem to need "more" cpu voltage to go faster and that means the VRM circuit works harder and hotter. Not the best for 4 +2 Power phase mobos.

RGone...

 

[Bion1985]

...with your very well done screen captures.

This is diagram of best air flow in and out of case for 95% of users.

There have been far more than just a few users with issues clocking an FX-8core cpu to clocks in the 4.5GHz range with the M5A97 of 'any' revision. Yours happens to be a Rev 1.02 or the first version Asus released as close as I can tell. The M5A97 only has a 4 +2 phase power delivery section and that means only 4 phases to send power to the cpu. We have been strongly urging as do many sites that 8 Core FX processors do far better with 8+2 phase power delivery circuit.

If you notice your cpu temp is already to 71c when we recommend that cpu temp n0t exceed 72c for 24/7 use. Your cpu Package/Core temp of 49c is still quite some distance from the recommended max of 62c.

It is possible that the VRM 4 phase power delivery circuit to the cpu can fail from overwork and take out cpu and memory and video card...it may not take out any but the board or might get all of the other parts.

Here are a couple of pics of things we do to the VRM for cooling to extend life and to lower that cpu temp. All of us even with much better suited boards have to do this when we put on watercooling since there is no "spill-over" air coming from an air cooled cpu cooler.

VRM - Socket cooling for AMD FX processor use.

Johan lighted blue fan showing thru rear of case.

Johan entire image lighted to show where the blue fan above is located.

Trents 2 x 50mm fans on VRMs.

Johan originally had rear mobo cooling fan like this.

With less powerful VRM circuit it is 'highly' suggested you make some form of plans for additional VRM / Cpu-Socket cooling. Most certainly since you seem to need "more" cpu voltage to go faster and that means the VRM circuit works harder and hotter. Not the best for 4 +2 Power phase mobos.

RGone...

Thank you for all the great information. Yea I had some suspetions that the mobo might of been holding me back. Im going to fill you in a bit on what my goal is. I recently preorderd Fallout 4 and it being one of my favorite game franchises and a long awaited title for me I'm in the process of doing some upgrading to my system. Just a few days ago I ordered a new AMD R290x. Was trying to push just a little more performance time out of this cpu mobo set up that I've had for a little over 3 years. So here's another question, in your opinion what would you do? I've considered looking info upgrading cpu/mobo or at bare minimum from the sounds of it the mobo. Should I hold of on upgrading, or would doing it in the next month or so be as good as time as any? I am also a little torn on what direction to go when I upgrade. As I mainly game on my pc many people have told me I would see higher performance gains running Intel.

Thanks in advance for all advice given.

 

[RGone]

I probably would wait until the 290X came in and try it on similar games to the FO4 and see how it does. If all seems okay then wait and test on FO4. If there are problems then upgrade to Intel to ensure your gaming is the best everyone seems to claim it will be. That is what I would do knowing the time frame you describe.

RGone...

 

[Mandrake4565]

I agree with RGone, seeing how the Pc performs with the 290X is your best bet. I game on my Fx 8350, with any issues but I'm also Oced to 4.7 Ghz. If you find the processor is holding you back, then it may be Intel time as much as I hate to say it. I couldn't find any benchmarks for Fallout 4 so I don't know if it's more Cpu or Gpu dependent. What screen resolution you play at, will also determine your performance, really low screen resolutions will use the Cpu more. Getting the socket temps down should be your first project.

 

[Bion1985]

I agree with RGone, seeing how the Pc performs with the 290X is your best bet. I game on my Fx 8350, with any issues but I'm also Oced to 4.7 Ghz. If you find the processor is holding you back, then it may be Intel time as much as I hate to say it. I couldn't find any benchmarks for Fallout 4 so I don't know if it's more Cpu or Gpu dependent. What screen resolution you play at, will also determine your performance, really low screen resolutions will use the Cpu more. Getting the socket temps down should be your first project.

Fallout 4 won't be released till November so there's some time to figure things out. I am currently running at 1920x1080 resolution.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Yeah I was hoping to find some pre release benchmarks for it.

 

[Bion1985]

So sounds like I should forget hitting 4.5ghz with my current configuration. So how can I make my current 4.3ghz more stable? I have virtually eliminated the prime95 freezing on test start problem I think but now I'll get it to run 3-5 mins and I'll have some core tests stop (usually 7 and 8) errors are rounding error or expected 4 and got 5 or something like that.

 

[trents]

An M5a97 is not up to overclocking an octacore FX. The power phase component is too weak.

 

[Mandrake4565]

An M5a97 is not up to overclocking an octacore FX. The power phase component is too weak.

I agree with Trents here but, try getting the Cpu temps down first. Get some fans on the VRM section as well as the backside of the motherboard. After you do this you may be able to get it stable at 4.3 or slightly higher. Does your board have heatsinks on the VRM section?

Just to give you a little information about what we are talking about when we say the Power Phase on the board is too weak. The M5A97 has either a 4+2 or 6+2 power phase section depending on the model. These Fx 8xxx cpu's demand a lot of clean power from the motherboard at stock. When overclocked this demand goes up exponentially. Now because a board does not have a high power phase count does not mean it cannot meet the power demands but in most cases it does. Motherboard manufacturers could put very high end Power Phases in order to meet the demands of these chips. Though, in order to make the boards affordable they do not. It's only when you get up to the higher end boards where they make the boards to be able to meet the demands of these chips when overclocked, examples, Asus Sabertooth, Asus Crosshair V Formula and Asrock Extreme 9. The bottom line is unless you get the chip extremely cold, ie sub ambient and also keep the VRM section cold you will have a very hard time getting the chip stable after a certain point because the board cannot provide clean power to the chip. If you want to read more about the VRM section this is a good article on it.

 

[Bion1985]

I agree with Trents here but, try getting the Cpu temps down first. Get some fans on the VRM section as well as the backside of the motherboard. After you do this you may be able to get it stable at 4.3 or slightly higher. Does your board have heatsinks on the VRM section?

Just to give you a little information about what we are talking about when we say the Power Phase on the board is too weak. The M5A97 has either a 4+2 or 6+2 power phase section depending on the model. These Fx 8xxx cpu's demand a lot of clean power from the motherboard at stock. When overclocked this demand goes up exponentially. Now because a board does not have a high power phase count does not mean it cannot meet the power demands but in most cases it does. Motherboard manufacturers could put very high end Power Phases in order to meet the demands of these chips. Though, in order to make the boards affordable they do not. It's only when you get up to the higher end boards where they make the boards to be able to meet the demands of these chips when overclocked, examples, Asus Sabertooth, Asus Crosshair V Formula and Asrock Extreme 9. The bottom line is unless you get the chip extremely cold, ie sub ambient and also keep the VRM section cold you will have a very hard time getting the chip stable after a certain point because the board cannot provide clean power to the chip. If you want to read more about the VRM section this is a good article on it.

Thanks everyone this has all been really helpful. I figured at min I might be able to squeeze 4.3ghz as I'd seen some people with same mobo get that. Guess this might just be a prime example of not all hardware is created equal. So till I can get the heat under control or until o decide to upgrade this systems cpu do you think I should revert to stock clocks? Or do you think it might be possible to get a little more out of the cpu maybe to a 4.0ghz at least?