AMD Athlon 2.8 64 X2 Overcklock limits

[QuietIce]

For one thing you need to turn down your HT Link to 4X. 1150 might be OK but maybe not and there's no reason to have it that high right now.

What are your load core temps at these setting???









Also, your RAM may be rated at 533 (DDR2-1066) but I'd bet it needs a lot more vDIMM (RAM voltage) than you're giving it. Either increase vDIMM to 2.1v or turn the RAM speed down a notch. 460 MHz is about where XMS starts to fizzle without more voltage ...

 

[trents]

Yes, those pics are very helpful.

1. Your HT Link speed is too high at 1151.5. You need to keep it at 1000 or below. Actually 800-1000 is the target range. So, lower the HT multiplier in bios from 5x to 4x.
2. Your are exceeding your ram's speed capacity. The "Memory" tab and the "SPD" tab both indicate you have DDR2 800 ram (PC6400), not DDR2 1066 (PC8500) as you stated in your first post. You are already at 460.6 x 2 = 920 mhz. Do you see that? You need to go into bios and set your ram speed to start at DDR2 666 (333x2) instead of DDR2 800 (400x2).

I did some research and found that the 90 nm version of your CPU is not the black edition. That is to say, the multiplier is upwardly locked. However, as you have already discovered, you can lower it to whatever you want. You just can't increase it over what it is set to from the factory.

You are going about this with too much haste. Good, stable overclocking is done in small increments. Please make the adjustments to HT Link speed and ram speed I suggested and start over. Also set your CPU mutiplier to 14 and set it to stock voltage. Also, give your ram one small boost in voltage over stock. Start your fsb at 210 and run Prime. Check for stability and temperatures. If it passes begin to increase fsb by 10 mhz and test with Prime after every increase. Please post back with same pics except we don't need the SPD tab any more.

 

[trents]

Please use "Snipping Tool" in the Windows Accessories to capture the screenshots and upload larger pictures directly in your posts.

 

[VeRDe]

Dear QuietIce:
1) i have set the HT from bios to 1Ghz (gives me option to lower it 400-600-800mhz)but it seems that doesnt control it. how i will control it?

2) the load core temps at those settings were 55oC max but i had no prime95 success so i changed settings again. i will post image with new stable settings (10minute success on prime95)

now i run FSB225x14 1.360v, HT 1125Mhz

3) my RAM is 800hz stock! i made mistake in first post. 533hz was my DRAM Freq before with the old setup with 1.85v. i know i suck!!!

voltage now is 1.95v (bios set it as normal 1.8v but when i bought it, it was saying 1.9v!)

Dear trents:

1) i dont think that my bios give me any multiplier for HT. i will check again.

2) yes i know i made mistake. hmm. it is not good to have more RAM mhz freq than the stock?

3) yes it is not black box edition. so i can only lower it. but lowering multiplier (so increasing FSB) is better in stability?

4) i do it increasing FSB by 10hz and checking with prime95 and i lost stability (Prime95 error) on 230hz FSBx14multiplier.

i'll try some things and i will come back. i hope wiser!

PS i uploaded photos before as thumbnails and you could open them by clicking. with snipping tool........

 

[QuietIce]

HT Link speed:
5X = 1000 MHz BIOS setting
4X = 800 MHz BIOS setting
3X = 600 MHz BIOS setting




It is better to run the RAM at or below stock speeds until you have a stabe CPU overclock. THEN you can go back and adjust RAM speed.


All I did was post the same pics without the "th_" at the beginning of the file name ...

 

[trents]

I'd rather not have the screenshots as thumbnails. Its just easier to look at it in bigger images without having to click. Small matter I guess.

1. Yes, your Ht Link speed may not be expressed as a multiplier. Like Ice said it may be given as a speed in mhz instead. Whatever speed is given will always be a multiple of 200 because 200 is the default fsb speed. When you overclock with fsb speed, however, the HT speed will be a multiple of whatever you increase the fsb to. The multiplier may not be visible but it is implied. For example, fsb of 230 will give you a HT Link speed of 1150 if it the HT speed was originally set at 1000 since a 5x multiplier is the implied default setting (5 x 230 = 1150). To get it under 1000, lower HT speed from 1000 to 800 (4 x 230 = 920). 1000=5x, 800=4x, 600=3x, etc.
2. No, not good to have more ram frequency than stock. Not much more like you did anyway.
3. When you don't have a black edition cpu you can only lower the multiplier, not raise it as well. You can only overclock with the fsb. Your CPU will have an overclocking limit as all of them do. The advantage of lowering the CPU multiplier is to help the ram get closer to its max rated speed without exceeding the overclock limit of the CPU. This gives you better overall performance since you are getting the most out of both CPU and ram.
4. I wanted you to start your overclock at fsb 200 mhz. and go up by increments of 10. Start the HT speed at 800.

One rule of thumb in overclocking is to establish the limits of each component at a time. To do that will mean starting other components at levels less than what they are rated to so that you know one of those others won't be causing instability.

 

[VeRDe]

ok understood.

trents, i increased by 10 FSB and as i said i had no problem till 220Mhz FSB. at 230Mhz still cant find a stable setup.

last time i ran prime95 error came after 9 minutes.

settings were:
FSB 230
Multiplier 14
vcore 1.4 (with 1.375 prime95 stopped in 6 minutes)
HT Link 921Mhz
RamVoltage 1.975v (+0.075 from factory default)
DRAM 358Mhz
Core temps with open case 68oC(!!!)

why so much voltage need??? i have seen CPU Intel Celeron E3300 2.5Ghz working on 3.5Ghz (FSB280x12.5multiplier) with only 1.216v!

i'm starting to thinking that i have passed the CPU limits and i will have stability only if i reduce FSB. do you agree?

am i doing something wrong?

 

[trents]

All right then,
1. Your Dram speed at 358 is below the factory rated 400 so that is not your limiting factor. 2. The HT Link speed is under 1000 so that's good. One thing you should lower is your ram voltage. If you are at or below the rated speed of the ram there is no need to increase the vdimm above factory rated voltage.
3. You cannot compare Intel vcores with AMD vcores and you cannot even compare one generation of AMD or Intel CPU vcores with other generations. They are all different. Your CPU was built on a 90 nm fabrication process. Today's current AMD CPUs are built on a 45 nm fab process which makes them run cooler and and at lower voltages. This is to your disadvantage in the present situation.
3. 68c? Ouch!! That's way too hot. That's your problem.
4. Have you done any research to see what the overclocking capability of your CPU is? What have others found out? Look up on the net. You are probably at or past the limit for that processor. Yes, reduce vcore and CPU speed.

 

[trents]

Look at post #2 in in this link:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=229128

Looks like about approximately 3.2 is the upper limit for those CPUs. With your high room temps you may have to settle for a little less than that to have it truly stable.

 

[QuietIce]

RamVoltage 1.975v (+0.075 from factory default)
DRAM 358Mhz

You should reduce your RAM voltage as low as possible, which looks like 1.90v on your board.

why so much voltage need??? i have seen CPU Intel Celeron E3300 2.5Ghz working on 3.5Ghz (FSB280x12.5multiplier) with only 1.216v!

In Greece your standard electrical outlet us 220V, right? In the US the standard electrical outlet is 120V. To quote you "why so much voltage need???" (in Europe) LOL! Voltage is a matter of the way circuits are designed, that's all. It doesn't mean the power requirements or heat output is that much different than a CPU (or appliance or light bulb) with lower voltage requirements.

i'm starting to thinking that i have passed the CPU limits and i will have stability only if i reduce FSB. do you agree?

am i doing something wrong?

Core temps with open case 68oC(!!!)

The only thing "wrong" is your heatsink and room temperature. A better heatsink would help the CPU run cooler.

A cooler room would also help but there isn't much any of us can do about the weather ...

 

[VeRDe]

this CPU Heat sink it supposed to be one of the best...

i'll try to lower it. yes it seems that i've passed the CPU limits. it needs a lot of voltage after some FSB Mhz's and this is has a huge impact on temperatures.

i'll inform you with the final stable setting i will achieve providing pictures.

then we can go on, with the RAM.

thats my RAM



some questions. with HT Link and RAM running slower, do i loose on overall performance beyond CPU?

 

[VeRDe]

Finally i achieved a stable CPU on Prime95 setting.



Max temp 55oC
Something i noticed is that lowering Multiplier, seems to need less core Voltage.

now,

1) do agree that its time to set DRAM Freq. back to normal (so it will be 450Mhz) and try to give the voltage it needs? before it was working with 533Mhz and 1.85v(that means only +0.05v)!!!!!

2) HT Link leave it like this?

4) should i try to achive the same speed with lower Multiplier so i will gain DRAM Freq? or i should leave it as it is?

3) can we do something better for RAM from Latecys?

my BIOS doesnt give any option to change DRAM Freq by itself.

 

[trents]

"4) should i try to achive the same speed with lower Multiplier so i will gain DRAM Freq? or i should leave it as it is?"

Yes, take DRAM frequency as close to 400 as you can get it, maybe slightly more if you want. Where do you get that 450 is normal? It is DDR2 800 ram, not DDR2 900. 400 is normal for that ram. But keep HT Link no greater than 1000 as you do this and lover CPU multiplier as necessary to keep the CPU speed at approximately what it is now as that seems to be your limit with 55c temps. Leave the latencies alone. Not worth the fight. Doesn't add much to real world performance.

 

[trents]

some questions. with HT Link and RAM running slower, do i loose on overall performance beyond CPU?

As long as HT Link speed is 800 or above you won't lose performance. RAM running slower has a little negative effect on performance but not a lot. The overwhelming factor in performance is the CPU frequency.

 

[trents]

"this CPU Heat sink it supposed to be one of the best..."

Maybe, but you picked one of the hottest running CPUs that AMD put out in that generation. 90 nm and lots of L2 cache contribute to this as well as your climate.

This CPU would be much better in the dual core line; a better performer, run cooler and overclock better:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103714

 

[VeRDe]

Yes but from the time that RAM remains stable with more than 400MHz DRAM why i should lower it? why not take advantage of this performance gain?

i was running for 3 years with 533(!!!)MHz without stability problems.(on the use. not tested with Prime95)

ok i dont say to run again with 533MHz, but 450MHz you think are too much? and why from time it seems stable even with Prime95?



Yes CPU produces extreme heat for AMD CPU. so i cant do more than that.

the Question is:
Lower Multiplier to gain the MAX DRAM Freq till it stays stable and HT lower than 1000MHz?

OR

Lower Multiplier to take DRAM to 400MHz and stop everything else there?

 

[QuietIce]

Yes, if you're going to leave the CPU at this speed you might be able to speed up the RAM. First try this:

CPU: 274x11.5
RAM: 533 (or 266) instead of 667 (or 333)

Just change those two things and nothing else - then do a long test to make sure it's stable.


IF that is stable then change the RAM back to 667 (or 333). That will put the RAM at 450 MHz ...

 

[VeRDe]

i have this settings:

HT Link: 969Mhz
FSB: 242MHz
Multiplier: x13
DRAM Freq: 450MHz
Vcore: 1.35v
RAMv: 1.9v

RAM setting on bios 800
HT setting 800

Stable with Prime95 10min test.

Do you agree with this setup?

 

[QuietIce]

If it works and it's stable that's all that counts ...!

 

[VeRDe]

I tested it for 3 hours with Prime95 and the result was clear!

Your assistance was great. thank you very much both of you.

And for the topic question "Overclock limits" i think the aswer is:

3150MHz

for more than this, you need extra money that is better to buy other CPU. and i'm not sure if with a top cooling fan could reach more than 3300MHz with this CPU.