AMD Phenom II 955 BE

[aeronyth]

Hello, been running this CPU for a couple years now with few problems... Lately I've been experimenting with overclocking the CPU using CCC... and when I google information about this CPU I keep finding people saying that the max temp is much lower than what i've been experiencing.

Running the stock cooler and heatsink... downloaded and running Core Temp and its telling me the Tj. Max is 90 degrees celsius but I've seen screenshots on here of people running the same CPU with Core Temp telling them the Tj. Max is 60 degrees celsius... my CPU doesn't appear to be damaged after reaching temps from 70-75.. so who's correct here?

 

[trents]

We're don't use "Tj. Max" much on the AMD side. We speak of "core temps" and "CPU" (i.e. socket) temps. IMO, a more useful monitoring program is HWMonitor because it gives both core temps and socket temps. May I suggest you run 20 minutes of Prime95 blend with HWMonitor open on the desktop and then report back with core temp and CPU temp readings. Note that the CPU temp may be disguised as one of the TMPINx lines which are the motherboard temp sensor lines. Attaching a pic of the HWMonitor interface would be even better. To attach a pic, capture and save the image to disc (Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories works great for this). Then click on the Go Advanced button at the bottom of any new post window. Then locate the little paperclip icon at the top of the advanced post window and click on it. The rest will be obvious.

 

[RGone]

These are the types of information that most users supply in order to be able to help them very much.

CPU Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

Memory Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

SPD Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

And this is screen capture of HWMonitor (free version) from CPUID com
HWMonitor has been scrolled enough and large enough to show Min/Max of Voltages and includes the CPU CORE TEMPS fully visible.

This capture is made of HWMonitor after it has been open on the desktop logging Min/Max temps and voltages while Prime 95 was running Blend Mode test on all cores for at least 20 mins and then the capture of HWMonitor was made and it shows the Min/Max temps and voltages before P95 Blend was started and while running P95 Blend mode and gives much greater insight into how the system is performing without guessing.

In order to attach screenshots of images as suggested, first crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool found in Windows Accessories or equivalent. Then click on Go Advanced, a button at the bottom of every new post window. Then click on the little paperclip tool at the top of the Advanced post window when it opens. Clicking on the paperclip tool brings up the file browser/upload tool and the rest is fairly obvious.

Then we can be able to tell what is going on.

 

[aeronyth]

Ran 20 minutes of Prime95 blend..

First image is HWmonitor with minimal CPU load, second image is after 20 minutes of stress testing, right before I stopped the test. The reason I'm posting here in the first place is I've been doing a lot of video converting (same 100% CPU load that Prime95 is doing) and I'm concerned about all the different things I've heard about this same exact CPU... I have my CPU cooler set in the BIOS to auto maintain 50 degrees but under a 100% load it will reach around 70, as you can see from the second picture. Turning the auto-fan feature off causes the fan to run much faster, to the point where it never really goes to a point where it cannot be heard, and as you probably know its louder than hell, so Ive kept the auto-fan feature on so that when the cpu is idle I don't have to listen to the fan. For the longest time I had it set to hold 60 degrees but now I am concerned this is dangerous being that it will allow a 20 degree difference before the fan really gets going?

I just really want to know who is right about the max temps allowed, as people have said AMD says its 62 degrees? which is apparently bull**** as I am typing this post while the CPU reads 70-72+ degrees, and has been hotter in the past when I had the auto-fan set to hold 60? confused.

It is becoming apparent to me that I may need to add another case fan, which is easily done as I believe I have two empty fan slots.

May I also add I don't do a lot of gaming, and my CPU isn't constantly pressed to extremes... I have whatever feature it is named enabled that allows the CPU to step itself down so it isn't constantly running at 3200MHZ so most of the time it is not running that warm.

The whole time that test was going on the CPU cooler never reached its full speed, whereas when I am converting video after about 10-15 mintues it seems to be running at full speed (very loud) I think somewhere in the 6000-6500RPM range, but manages to hold a 60-65 degree temp the entire time during the conversion.

I appreciate the prompt response and if needed can attach images from CPU-z but I have not yet downloaded it.

EDIT: It shows I have 3 system fans, I don't, just one.

EDIT: I turned off overclocking for this test.

 

[aeronyth]

Something else I'm noticing..

After running these stress tests, reaching higher temps, and restarting.. the option to overclock the CPU disappears from the CCC. The only way I've figured out how to get it to re-appear is by choosing the "set optimal defaults" setting in the BIOS. I'm unaware what it is changing that allows the overclocking options to re-appear. Apparently the computer knows better than I do.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Aeronyth, Welcome.

Could you update your signature with the specs of your system, it helps us, help you better, knowing what we are working with. Include in it what case you are using.

What I feel you should do is this. Return it to stock, run prime 95 and post your HWmonitor pic to see what your temps are like at stock settings. The temps you have now are going to shorten that lifespan of that 955.

I'm not sure what clock speeds you are running at but I'm betting that isn't high enough to warrant the 1.5 CPU V that the AMD CCC is setting. I use 1.5 V on my CPU when I push my 955 to 4.3, I doubt that you need those amount of volts to sustain the OC that CCC is giving you.

Depending on what case you are using, I suggest that you invest in a Coolermaster Hyper 212+ or EVO. Either one of those will allow you to overclock the 955 to decent levels and keep the heat down. Your case needs to be at least 7.75" wide to fit one of them though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

Next read these guide it will help you learn how to overclock through the BIOS.

http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_Dragon_AM3_AM2_Performance_Tuning_Guide.pdf
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596023

 

[keny]

You're temps are bordering on the dangerous to extreme level and I would take of you're cooler and reapply the thermal paste, also i don't know if you have got the vcore set to auto in you're bios, but it looks like it is over volting you're CPU to 1.5v which is more than is needed for stock clocks (if that's what you're running for the tests) we really need the cpuz screens to see, if you're running stock you can undervolt you're CPU vcore to something like 1.35 to lower temps considerably, but test using prime after lowering the vcore to make sure it's stable at the lower vcore, but definately sort the cooling out as those temps are scary hot

 

[Khan]

Your processor could be a C2 955, I had the same problem with the stock cooler when I first got mine, post up that CPUZ pic and we'll know for sure, but the stock cooler is definitely not enough for one of those it seems.

 

[RGone]

I don't believe AMD's 62c max temp of what HWMonitor is showing as TMPIN0 is BS. Your reading is TMPIN0 = 67c and by the standards most of use here in the AMD CPU Forum section is too high.

Sure you can run higher than 62c for temps. I think recommended temps or call them recommended 'safe' temps are just that: temps that are best not exceeded for long periods of time. So the fact that you have exceeded 62c on TMPIN0 and the system has not exploded is not an idictment of the recommended 62c temp, but shows that currently you are getting by with higher than recommended temps. How long? Who can really say how long you can get by with high temps. Each system and cpu are different.

1. I would strive for better cooling.

2. In order for 'software' overclocking to work for the many skill levels of the users, the software in general *must* overvolt the cpu. Because the use of software to overclock tends to imply the user is not skilled in adjusting voltages and settings from the bios, the software must give enough voltage to try and ensure the overclock will succeed for most who use the software to overclock.

3. It is because of #2 above that most of us tend to stress refraining from software overclocking.

 

[trents]

TMPIN0 is most likely your CPU socket temp. With stock cooling we typically see core temps slightly higher than socket temps and with good after market cooling the reverse.

We know from experience that significantly overclocked AMD processors typically become unstable when the core temps reach somewhere between 55-60c or the socket temps exceed 65-70c. IF they aren't overclocked they will stand a little more. Notice I am not talking about "safe" temps but "stable" temps. If you want guidelines for safe temps I would say don't allow either your core temp or your CPU socket temp to exceed 70c. Core temps are really the critical one but the sensors aren't always calibrated well so we also look at socket temps.

Prime95 will stress your system quite a bit more than real world apps. It is our standard tool for determining whether or not a system is truly stable. We consider a system stable when it will pass a minimum of 2 hrs of Prime95 blend. If it will do that, you won't have to worry about it crashing in regular use in an overclocked state.

As others have said, your max vcore at 1.5 is going to be too much for the stock cooler. Overclocking with the stock cooler is a pretty futile exercise. The stock coolers are barely adequate for those processors when running at stock frequencies and voltages.

HWMonitor is showing three system fans likely because it is detecting the presence of headers and rpm sensors for connecting them on the motherboard. If you disable the smart fan options in bios do those lines still show in HWMonitor?

What is your case ventilation like? What make and model case do you have? How many intake and exhaust fans do you have on the case and how big are they? Good case ventilation is critical to keeping temps down. Even with a great CPU cooler, processor temps will be high unless you are removing the hot air from the case at a sufficient rate. Otherwise you are using hot air to cool the processor and that isn't going to work.

All of the veteran overclockers here would discourage you from using CCC or any software to overclock or even the auto overclocking genies in bios. Take the trouble to learn the manual overclocking tools in bios.

 

[aeronyth]

These are the shots from CPU-z.. I believe I have reset back to stock settings, is the vcore around 1.4 a safer bet? I may try to see if I can get it lowered. Right now i'm converting video again and its holding right around 62-63 core temps.

I never left the overclock settings on for more than a day or two... as I'm not really that concerned about having it overclocked in the first place. I will take your advice about not using CCC to overclock in the future.

I've got a cooler master case, not sure what it's called, its the largest size (4 dvd drive bays) with vents on the front and side and back, one case fan in the rear.

so the answer is 70 degrees is the breaking point? It seems to be able to keep it under 70 during extended 100% CPU load. If I leave it at the stock settings, do I need to be concerned?

I'm thinking I might need to reseat the heatsink with new thermal paste, as that crappy little square of whatever that came in the box is probably disintegrated by now...

 

[RGone]

If you had put up the HWMonitor capture along with those three CPUz captures, then we would have all been on the same page and 'know' for sure where you are and what our advice would be specifically.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Isn't 1.35 V Core stock on the 955? I may be mistaken, I haven't run stock in a while. Aeronyth if you are going take the time to to reseat the heatsink, if you can do it financially, get yourself the Coolermaster 212 + for $29.00 it's worth every penny.

 

[Khan]

1.35 is the normal stock voltage for those, try to lower it to that and it should drop the temp a few degrees.

 

[trents]

There is no "normal stock voltage" for the 955 or any of the other AMD CPUs. We had a big discussion on the forum about that a week or so ago and now I am convinced that the stock CPU VID will vary from production batch to production batch with regard to the same model CPU. You might buy a 955 and find that the stock VID is 1.325 and a year later buy another one and find it to be 1.4. Aeronyth, I think the smartest thing to do would be for you to do as long as you are using the stock cooler is:

1. Don't try to overclock the CPU
2. Start lowering the CPU voltage until you can no longer pass a 20 minute Prime95 run. Give it another .025 volts and retest with Prime95 for two hours. Only add more voltage if you can't pass that two hour test.
3. It won't hurt to redo the paste.
4. You probably need more than one case fan. You need at least one exhaust fan in the back and one intake in the front. Take the side panel off and run Prime95. If your temps improve you need better case ventilation.
4. Ultimately, you need a better CPU cooler.

Those "safe temp" recommendations are not from some AMD document. They are my estimates based on experience and they may be a tad on the conservative side. Better safe than sorry.

 

[aeronyth]

If you had put up the HWMonitor capture along with those three CPUz captures, then we would have all been on the same page and 'know' for sure where you are and what our advice would be specifically.

Do the CPUz captures I posted change any of your advice you had given in your previous reply?

I'm guessing no, but for my own future reference so I can diagnose these things myself, could you please explain what the CPUz shows that was not shown in the HWMonitor so I know what to look for?

 

[aeronyth]

There is non "normal stock voltage" for the 955 or any of the other AMD CPUs. We had a big discussion on the forum about that a week or so ago and now I am convinced that the stock CPU VID will vary from production batch to production batch with regard to the same model CPU. You might buy a 955 and find that the stock VID is 1.325 and a year later buy another one and find it to be 1.4. Aeronyth, I think the smartest thing to do would be for you to do as long as you are using the stock cooler is:

1. Don't try to overclock the CPU
2. Start lowering the CPU voltage until you can no longer pass a 20 minute Prime95 run. Give it another .025 volts and retest with Prime95 for two hours. Only add more voltage if you can't pass that two hour test.
3. It won't hurt to redo the paste.
4. You probably need more than one case fan. You need at least one exhaust fan in the back and one intake in the front. Take the side panel off and run Prime95. If your temps improve you need better case ventilation.
4. Ultimately, you need a better CPU cooler.

Those "safe temp" recommendations are not from some AMD document. They are my estimates based on experience and they may be a tad on the conservative side. Better safe than sorry.

Thank you for the advice, I will probably abide by it. As I said, I really have no reason to overclock the CPU, I just was experimenting around with it because I enjoy such things, and again I have learned to not use CCC to overclock. Funny how you cannot trust the own manufacturer's software. The main reason I posted here was to find out how much was too much. Thanks again.

 

[aeronyth]

Isn't 1.35 V Core stock on the 955? I may be mistaken, I haven't run stock in a while. Aeronyth if you are going take the time to to reseat the heatsink, if you can do it financially, get yourself the Coolermaster 212 + for $29.00 it's worth every penny.

Taking this into serious consideration. Thanks.

 

[trents]

Everything in CPU-z from post #11 looks normal for stock. I'm pretty sure 1.4 vcore is plenty enough CPU voltage to keep you stable. If 62-63 core temps is when you run Prime95 and it's stable that ought to be okay. I'd like to see it a little lower but that probably won't hurt anything. Certainly better than before.

Oh, you can trust the manufacturer's overclocking software. You can trust it not to manipulate enough variables to give you both a high and a stable overclock.

 

[Mandrake4565]

If you like to experiment, like most of us do here at overclockers, read the guides I posted in #6. I have learned a great deal from them and also the people in this community. They are all willing to go the extra mile to help you learn how to overclock and achieve your goals. Be careful though, once you get the bug you'll be overclocking everything.