Building a new system, need hardware advice

[Lyian]

I have a few threads going asking different hardware questions, but im going to try to consolidate them all here.
First: the parts in my wishlist thus far.

[edit]
I tweaked my wishlist a bit. Here's the update..

Case - After looking over the sniper, i thought the HAF did have a better layout, and has room for a 120.2 radiator up top.
Powersupply - The modular connections arn't as clear as OCZ's (ie not labeled) but im hoping the book will clear it up and ill just label them myself.
Motherboard** Asus Link here - When it comes out. I cant bring my self to trust brands i dont know.
CPU - Unchanged
Memory - Unchanged
ATI Videocard vs Nvidia Videocard - Subject to change as price/product will likely upgrade by the time im ready to buy. Still poking around for a comparable nvidia card.
HDD - unchanged
SSD - Going to give this a shot with ISR running and the Win7 on it.
Soundcard - unchanged
CPU Cooler - Still debating this in my head.
Rom Drive - Not going to worry about Blu-ray just yet, as it takes good software to get it working from what ive read.

CPU Cooler - if i dont go with the water system
Speakers (likely wont get them from here, as i have a cheaper source)
Fan Controller & Temp monitor - To help regulate fan speed (aka noise) during 'under use' times. Tho i dono where to get this unit yet.

Video Card - None selected as of yet. I am looking to get a 3 monitor setup going for both gaming and multi tasking running at 1920x1280 resolution and dont want to have to turn things down to do this.

Sound Card - This is depending on if i end up going with the Sniper mobo or not. If i dont, ill go with something running an X-Fi chip-set and digital output.

PSU - The PSU i had originally picked out was based on outdated knowledge about the 12v rails. Im looking at somewhere between 850-1250 watt PSU in order to have upgrade room for several years. Im also wanting a modular setup because i hate having all that extra crap im not using in the case. Two contenders for this are..
CORSAIR Gold AX
&
OCZ ZX

These are the 850 variants.

Second:
The Primary game im looking at running is StarWars : The Old Republic, but my gaming will NOT be limited to that. I also play older games and expect to play newer ones as well. As for current games i run..

Day of Defeat: Source
Trackmania United
Portal 2
Half-Life 2 (still waiting on Ep3 )
Eve Online

And other various titles.

Non gaming will be Audio & Video editing but this wont be an every day thing, Along with other various non system taxing tasked.. Web browsing (facebook, youtube, ect) and random usage i cant account for right now . (likely wont happen for months at a time). I want the 3 display setup in games Primarily for MMO UI's, Vent monitoring, Webpage display (while playing) and various other details when games are not ideal to play with 3 displays.

Third:
Im not an amateur builder. But it has been a while since i have put together my own system. But every tower computer ive owned since my first 486 i have put together myself. The problem is tech chances so quickly, and since im not one to stay on the bleeding edge of tech, i dont keep up with every shift of it.

I have no experience with over clocking, but im not opposed to doing *some* as long as there is no risk to damaging the hardware and i see some tangible benefits from it.

Forth: Above all else, i want whatever i end up building to last as long as i can make it last. That means, in short, a motherboard that wont drop off the compatibility list within a year. PCI Express 3.0 is coming and i dont want to be stuck with a board that a 3.0 card wont work in. (i still have a bitter taste in my brain from when they ditched AGP) So upgrade room is Key! In my mind, motherboards are the worst thing to upgrade because of how many comparability changes come with it.

Im having to build an entirely new system because of this. My current desktop is Single core CPU, (capped at 2.0 gig) Caped at 2 gig of system memory, AGP 7800 GS video card (which is about the fastest you can get in AGP form), IDE 160 gig HDD, and SB Audigy sound card. This is all sitting in an old ATX case that does not have good enough airflow to keep the newer dual/quad cores cool. And is powered by a 650Watt PSU which i bought Specifically to power the out of date 7800GS, and is now not powerful enough to run a z68 system the way i want.

So there you have it.. I think ive touched all the bases. If i could get some advice on the hardware i have listed, maybe better suggested hardware to fill the roles, ect.. anything would be helpful.

Budget: Looking at spending around $1500-$2000
I would prefer to stay with Newegg.com, as im going to try to get financing though them. If i absolutely have to i can use Amazon, but id rather not.

Thanks.

 

[Knufire]

Any specific budget?

This is how I view the G1.Sniper. You want it for the integrated sound card. Getting it separately as you posted, would cost you about $125. The question you need to ask yourself then, is whether the G1 would be worth $235 without the sound chip?

IMO, $235 would get you a KILLER good board. More then you need, most I'd spend for a Sandy Bridge motherboard is probably $180, so IMO, you'd be better off getting a different motherboard with the X-Fi separate.

Any specific budget for the build?

 

[Lyian]

Any specific budget?

This is how I view the G1.Sniper. You want it for the integrated sound card. Getting it separately as you posted, would cost you about $125. The question you need to ask yourself then, is whether the G1 would be worth $235 without the sound chip?

IMO, $235 would get you a KILLER good board. More then you need, most I'd spend for a Sandy Bridge motherboard is probably $180, so IMO, you'd be better off getting a different motherboard with the X-Fi separate.

Any specific budget for the build?

Budget added at bottom

 

[Knufire]

Operating system included in the budget? Mouse/keyboard/monitor?

Assuming quiet is much preferred since you're audio editing, right?

 

[Lyian]

Operating system included in the budget? Mouse/keyboard/monitor?

Assuming quiet is much preferred since you're audio editing, right?

All owned

OS: i have Windows 7-64 bit
Mouse: Currently G5 (second (or 3rd?) gen)
Keyboard: Logitech G110 (also use this for voice)
I have a Zboard Fang Game pad
Monitor is an HP A7217A. Which is just an HP branded Sony GDM-FW900. The other two Monitors i will get at a later time.

This budget is strictly for the tower. If i am well within the budget, I will also consider getting a NAS that ive been wanting with a 2 or 3 TB drive for network storage, but this isnt part of the build. Even the speakers wont be bought at the same time. I have a set of 4.1 low ends that will hold me over till i can get the others through.

 

[Knufire]

Got two builds together, which one do you want me to post?
They're basically the same, except two different versions of the video card. One has an aftermarket heatsink and a pretty decent OC. It's quiet and slightly faster. This build comes in at basically $2000 including shipping.

The second has two reference cards, these are a little hotter and louder and don't have a factory OC on them. This build comes in at $1900.

Another note, due to how combo deals work out, the $2000 has a 850HX while the $1900 has the 850AX. The AX is more efficient and fully modular, and the HX is partly modular. However, the hardwired cables on the HX are all cables you need, so there's isn't much of a difference.

 

[grumperfish]

I suggested this in the other thread, but grab a different board (IE something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131729 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128506) with the soundcard of your choice, and save the money for a better GPU or a 120GB SSD (pref. Crucial or Intel - avoid sandforce drives).

For the PSU, the Corsair would be a better choice as OCZ's quality control is suspect at the best of times.


Edit: Either of these PSU's would also work fine for a bit less (with the same 70A 12V rating as the one you linked) :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011 or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256067

 

[Knufire]

He'd need a board that fully supports PCIe 3.0. ASUS, no idea if it can. Gigabyte will with a BIOS update, but you lose CFX/SLI support (they basically dump 32 PCIe 2.0 lanes to get the bandwidth up to 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes. You need to go with an ASRock or MSI or another manufacture who has actual PCIe 3.0 switches on their boards.

 

[Lyian]

Got two builds together, which one do you want me to post?
They're basically the same, except two different versions of the video card. One has an aftermarket heatsink and a pretty decent OC. It's quiet and slightly faster. This build comes in at basically $2000 including shipping.

The second has two reference cards, these are a little hotter and louder and don't have a factory OC on them. This build comes in at $1900.

Another note, due to how combo deals work out, the $2000 has a 850HX while the $1900 has the 850AX. The AX is more efficient and fully modular, and the HX is partly modular. However, the hardwired cables on the HX are all cables you need, so there's isn't much of a difference.

Partly modular is fine, as those are usually hardwired motherboard cables. I just dont want 4 cables of Molex power and 3 SATA power cables floating around when im only using one cable (to power two drives) or whatever.

Where are you building this? I forgot to mention and ill edit the main post to reflect my store preference.

 

[Knufire]

Both are on Newegg.
Cheap, loud:



Quiet, expensive:

 

[Lyian]

you realize the price difference between those two is like 7 bucks? Not exactly 'Cheap vs Expensive' lol

Cheap in my price range is 1500-1600 bucks

Also im still not on the pleasant side of ATi cards. I guess ive never trusted them because they always seem to have stability issues crop up. Some of the reviews im reading on the cards you posted have bad reviews on stability :|

I also need to get some research about the SSD's and ISR. Im hearing conflicting info on what ISR does to SSD's

And wow.. none of you like the CM Storm case i picked do you

 

[grumperfish]

^^^
Not sure I'd go with Corsair Vengeance sticks due to the tall heatspreaders (can block memory slots), although it's not bad with the combo price. Could be an issue if you wanted to go with 16GB RAM later on, but it's probably fine.

Both of the lists above include 2x 6970's. You (OP) could go with a single card and be fine. As mentioned in the other thread by another poster, you're probably not going to need dual cards for TOR, and at most you should probably go with a single GTX 560ti (with the option for a second when prices drop with the new generation cards). Personally I like my unlocked 6950, but a GTX560ti would be comparable and will be a major upgrade to your 7800. I wouldn't suggest buying a non-reference XFX card anyways, as the newer revisions have removed components without listing any changes to their product line.
Dual 6970's would be kinda wasteful regardless as you could get nearly the same performance with 2x 6950's with less power draw:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/299?vs=298

The case is fine. If you like it and the features work, then go with it. Just make sure it can support long videocards without interfering with HDD placement.

Also, while PCI-E 3.0 might be important, it doesn't mean you need a board with 4x PCI-E 16x ports (unless you're actually planning to use 4 videocards).

 

[Lyian]

^^^
Not sure I'd go with Corsair Vengeance sticks due to the tall heatspreaders (can block memory slots), although it's not bad with the combo price. Could be an issue if you wanted to go with 16GB RAM later on, but it's probably fine.

Both of the lists above include 2x 6970's. You (OP) could go with a single card and be fine. As mentioned in the other thread by another poster, you're probably not going to need dual cards for TOR, and at most you should probably go with a single GTX 560ti (with the option for a second when prices drop with the new generation cards). Dual 6970's would be kinda wasteful regardless as you could get nearly the same performance with 2x 6950's with less power draw:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/299?vs=298

Haha yea, that was a bit more video power than i think i was looking for. From what ive heard, the PCIe 3.0 tech seems to be coming with the IB chips. So i wouldn't need a ridiculous 2.0 card right now, just one that would say.. hold up for 2 years.. Long enough for all the new stuff to come out and come down in price.. tho im still wanting the 3-display setup :| errrg.. so hard!

Also, while PCI-E 3.0 might be important, it doesn't mean you need a board with 4x PCI-E 16x ports (unless you're actually planning to use 4 videocards).

Never said i wanted 4 (dont think i said that?) All id need is 2. But all the PCIe 3.0 boards ive seen split the channels. If you use both slots, they run at 8x and not 16x.

 

[grumperfish]

^^^
I was responding to the ASROCK board posted, which has 4x 16x slots.

8x vs. 16x isn't relevant (yet) with modern boards. Can't find the review off-hand but some site tested SLI'd GTX480 cards and there wasn't any performance difference between 8x vs. 16x. It could be important with the next generation of cards (unknown at this time), which is why Knufire's advice of looking at an MSI or ASROCK board with PCI-E 3.0 compatibility is a good idea.

Haha yea, that was a bit more video power than i think i was looking for. From what ive heard, the PCIe 3.0 tech seems to be coming with the IB chips. So i wouldn't need a ridiculous 2.0 card right now, just one that would say.. hold up for 2 years.. Long enough for all the new stuff to come out and come down in price.. tho im still wanting the 3-display setup :| errrg.. so hard!

If you want 3 displays for multi-monitor gaming you'll need at least 2x 570's (I wouldn't buy 580's as the price/performance advantage over the 570's just isn't there) to support the resolution. I'm not sure how ATI stacks up with multi-monitor gaming, so I'd go with NVidia here.

If you want 3x monitors with gaming on only ONE monitor, you'd need only a single modern ATI card (I suggest the 6950 1GB model - 2GB is overkill for 1080p or lower [unless it's an unlocked 2GB, which is the only reason I bought the 2GB model in my sig]). ATI is pretty good these days. I'd argue that they've always been good-to-fantastic, but if you're used to one GPU manufacturer opinions can be hard to change.

NVidia cards can only support 2 monitors with a single card, so if you want 3 monitors (again, gaming on just the primary), you'd need to go with a single ATI card as they support it with Eyefinity.



As for dual or single, the smart money is on ONE "mid-range" card, either the 560ti or 6950, and then either get a second of the same (on the used market) a year or so down the line when prices drop, or just get a new mid-range card in 2 years or so..

What I've done is tried to go for ~2x performance gain between upgrades, spending around the same amount of cash (give or take ~$80) for each card, and I've enjoyed pretty decent performance for the price with each revision:
850pro-> 1950pro-> 3870-> 4870-> 69*0.

 

[Knufire]

He's said he wants to game on all three, and at that, AMD clearly beats NVIDIA. One is that their cards scale better. Two 6970s is equal or better then two 580s even though the 580 is better as a single card. With the MSI Lightening versions, it's very easy to beat dual stock 580s completely. Also, AMD has had the triple screen support out for better, and they're a better performer at high resolutions due to more VRAM.

About the stability, every card will have some DOA. Almost every person who has a bad card will complain about it online. The fact is that the majority of people who have a good experience don't post reviews, and therefore, for every product, the number of bad reviews is disproportional to how many bad cards there actually is. That's why a lot of the members here don't particularly trust Newegg reviews. Quote from 20 minutes ago elsewhere on the fourm: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6990061&postcount=7

Sorry about the builds. When I looked at the price of the cheap one, I read it as 1902 xD. In that case, just go with the MSI Lightening's. They're by FAR better then dual 570s.

If you want to save money, go with dual 6950 2GBs (MSI Twin Frozr IIs), that'll knock of $200.

 

[Lyian]

^^^
I was responding to the ASROCK board posted, which has 4x 16x slots.

8x vs. 16x isn't relevant (yet) with modern boards. Can't find the review off-hand but some site tested SLI'd GTX480 cards and there wasn't any performance difference between 8x vs. 16x. It could be important with the next generation of cards (unknown at this time), which is why Knufire's advice of looking at an MSI or ASROCK board with PCI-E 3.0 compatibility is a good idea.


If you want 3 displays for multi-monitor gaming you'll need at least 2x 570's (I wouldn't buy 580's as the price/performance advantage over the 570's just isn't there) to support the resolution. I'm not sure how ATI stacks up with multi-monitor gaming, so I'd go with NVidia here.

If you want 3x monitors with gaming on only ONE monitor, you'd need only a single modern ATI card (I suggest the 6950 1GB model - 2GB is overkill for 1080p or lower [unless it's an unlocked 2GB, which is the only reason I bought the 2GB model in my sig]). ATI is pretty good these days. I'd argue that they've always been good-to-fantastic, but if you're used to one GPU manufacturer opinions can be hard to change.

NVidia cards can only support 2 monitors with a single card, so if you want 3 monitors (again, gaming on just the primary), you'd need to go with a single ATI card as they support it with Eyefinity.



As for dual or single, the smart money is on ONE "mid-range" card, either the 560ti or 6950, and then either get a second of the same (on the used market) a year or so down the line when prices drop, or just get a new mid-range card in 2 years or so..

What I've done is tried to go for ~2x performance gain between upgrades, spending around the same amount of cash (give or take ~$80) for each card, and I've enjoyed pretty decent performance for the price with each revision:
850pro-> 1950pro-> 3870-> 4870-> 69*0.

Realistically, even tho i could grab the dual displays i have on my other computer, i doubt ill be multi-monitor gaming when i first get this system going. Those other two displays are Hanns-g LCDs and they are really crappy displays, so wouldn't want to game on them anyway.

What i suppose i could do is get a single 570, just run dual displays (2nd for non-gaming) then pick up a 2nd, SLI them and setup the triple display gaming at that time.

As far as ATI.. i suppose i could give them another shot. But the biggest issue ive seen with them in the past was they didnt like older games. So i dono how they are now. My 2nd desktop does have an ATI card in it, but it has problems loading flash.. Tho that could be due to the slow 1.8 gig processor and 1 gig of ram on it lol

 

[Knufire]

They had driver issues in the past, they're much better now. I get ~2500 FPS on Halo 1 with my 4890 .

If you're going to go NVIDIA, then the 570 is by far the best card from them in terms of price/performance. You can't beat the 6950 in that department, however.

But yeah, if you're not gaming on all three, you don't need anywhere near that much GPU power.

 

[grumperfish]

Realistically, even tho i could grab the dual displays i have on my other computer, i doubt ill be multi-monitor gaming when i first get this system going. Those other two displays are Hanns-g LCDs and they are really crappy displays, so wouldn't want to game on them anyway.

What i suppose i could do is get a single 570, just run dual displays (2nd for non-gaming) then pick up a 2nd, SLI them and setup the triple display gaming at that time.

As far as ATI.. i suppose i could give them another shot. But the biggest issue ive seen with them in the past was they didnt like older games. So i dono how they are now. My 2nd desktop does have an ATI card in it, but it has problems loading flash.. Tho that could be due to the slow 1.8 gig processor and 1 gig of ram on it lol

If it's a pentium-4 CPU or an older sempron, that's probably the issue.


The only games I had issues with on my 4870 were X-Wing Alliance (note - FreeSpace Open is so much better than XWA anyways) & KOTOR (rendering issues). There's some known issues with these games. Everything else wasn't a problem.

The 6950's are pretty powerful cards. I just ran through Deus Ex 3 with everything maxed and MSAA (it's not a particularly-demanding game, but it still ran great on the card). Running 3DMark01 was pretty LOL with the 6950 at any rate.

ATI cards do scale very well in Crossfire. I wasn't sure how they did multi-monitor gaming, but Knufire answered that question.

 

[Lyian]

They had driver issues in the past, they're much better now. I get ~2500 FPS on Halo 1 with my 4890 .

If you're going to go NVIDIA, then the 570 is by far the best card from them in terms of price/performance. You can't beat the 6950 in that department, however.

But yeah, if you're not gaming on all three, you don't need anywhere near that much GPU power.

I wont be doing it right off the bat. Its weirdly getting more diffacult to find a display that doesnt cap out at 1080 because of that ridiculous TV standard. 1080 has been way over glorified imo.

The other issue is i have to figure out how to make it work with my current monitor. It displays in 16:10, which of course, isnt the standard.

suppose i could try this card (or this but it doesn't say the clock speed)to start off with then get a 2nd one later. But this card wouldn't like setting up 3 displays off itself hua? lol

 

[Lyian]

I tweaked my wishlist a bit. Here's the update..

Case - After looking over the sniper, i thought the HAF did have a better layout, and has room for a 120.2 radiator up top.
Powersupply - The modular connections arn't as clear as OCZ's (ie not labeled) but im hoping the book will clear it up and ill just label them myself.
Motherboard** Asus Link here - When it comes out. I cant bring my self to trust brands i dont know.
CPU - Unchanged
Memory - Unchanged
ATI Videocard vs Nvidia Videocard - Subject to change as price/product will likely upgrade by the time im ready to buy. Still poking around for a comparable nvidia card.
HDD - unchanged
SSD - Going to give this a shot with ISR running and the Win7 on it.
Soundcard - unchanged
CPU Cooler - Still debating this in my head.
Rom Drive - Not going to worry about Blu-ray just yet, as it takes good software to get it working from what ive read.

So there it is. Updated list. Bit more than i originally had planned, but still doable i think.