Corsair Obsidian 800D water cooling build questions.

[Lenkas]

Hey

I know this has been asked a guzilion times but here I am asking it again.
All my previous rigs were air cooled and in 2010 I wanted to make my first water cooled PC but didn't have the cash so I dumped the project. A week ago I bought a used 800D, that is pretty much brand new and now I want to put water cooling in it.

I've done a bit of research about it and came up with a setup that I'd like to show below and ask a few questions about it.

My spec atm are:

CPU: I7-2600k
MOBO: GA-P67A-UD5-B3
RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance
GPU: Sapphire HD6950 2GB
SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 120GB
PSU: 850W Antec Quattro

The 2600k has been OCed but put to stock 'cause I preffered lower rpm and less noise.
With WC the 2600k will get a decent OC.
The 6950 has been successfully flashed to 6970.
I will be buying another 6950 so I will be running CFX 6950's flashed to 6970.
The Vengeance is cooled by Corsair Airflow.

The 2600k OC is about 150W?
The 6950 is about 250W (500W)
Mobo is ?? watts.

Lets say max 700W needs to be cooled.
360mm rad at medium fan speed dumps like 500-600W
120mm rad at medium fan speed dumps like 150-200W
140mm rad at medium fan speed dumps like 150-200W
Total: 800-1000W cooling power?

I'm leaning toward the single loop more than the dual loop.
Here is the picture of first version:

The loop goes:
Hottest water goes from 2nd gpu -> 140 rad -> res -> 360 rad -> 140 rad (at this point water would be coolest) -> mobo -> cpu -> 1st gpu -> 2nd gpu -> repeat...

I realized that hottest water from gpu going to 140mm rad on bottom, will dump the heat in air, so the warm air will go over the RAM's and through the 360mm so that is a no go.
After more research I realized that I can't fit a 140mm rad on the back, since the 140mm fan is snug so I switched to 120mm rad in the rear (still debating over push/pull slimmer rad or just pull and thicker rad).
And after some more thinking I noticed that the bottom 140mm setup won't work either. There is 130mm room but the rail that PSU sits on blocks it a little so 25+80+25 wont work. Switched that rad to 140mm 60mm thickness in push/pull.

So here is the new version:

The loop goes (i drew it here):
Hottest water from 2nd gpu ->360 rad (to dump the heat asap) -> res -> 140 bottom rad -> 120 rear rad -> NB/SB -> mosfets -> cpu -> gpu 1 -> gpu 2 -> 360 rad -> repeat...

It's a bit complicated but looks good.
There is a drain port at the back of the bottom 140 rad, and the fillport is at the res.

Parts list:

1x Sapphire HD6950

1x 360mm radiator (debating here over 80mm Monsta in pull configuration (i've read that pull is better than push) or a 64mm EK XTX in push/pull configuration) but I am leaning more towards EKWB since I'm from Slovenia and so are they and they are basicly across the street.

1x 120mm radiator EK XTX 64mm
1x 140mm radiator (one that has a drain port (the XTX 120mm has it but XTC 140mm doesnt ) so UT60 60mm)
1x CPU block (prolly EK (I have no idea about the diffrence in supreme ltx and supremacy))
1x MOBO block EK-FB Kit GA P67A-UD7 (compatible with my UD5).
2x GPU block full cover EK-FC6970 (compatible with my HD6950).
2x D5 pumps that fit koolance res pump combo (this depends if I need two pumps for my loop)
1x Koolance reservoir dual loop pump combo (this depends if I need two pumps for my loop)
1x Flow meter
1x Water temp meter with LCD's
1x Drain valve
1x 140mm fan

All the tubing I'd like blue transparent (1/2''?)
All the fittings I'd like compression ones, will need a few angled ones thinking of Bitspower.
Liquid, either I'll get EK-Ekoolant or Deionized water at work and add stuff like biocides to it.
The only thing I'm scared about is the corrosion of the nickel, brass, cooper and aluminium.
Kill coil (silver coil) and PT nuke (cu biocide) will be included.

Stuff that I have:
Corsair Airflow for RAM's
A bunch (8) of Xigmatek XLF-F1256 from EKWB.


I hope I covered everything and if I missed anything or something should be changed or is wrong please tell me.
Any additional info I get from you guys and girls would be very usefull.

 

[txus.palacios]

I have only read for the gist so these are just some tips.

- Forget everything they told you about watercooling loop order. It does not matter. There will be no (noticeable) temperature difference. Just set it up so that you use as little tubing as possible.

- Watercooling the mobo is one of the most useless things you can do. Don't do it unless you go for the looks / are sponsored.

- If you don't mind removing the lower HDD cage, you can get a 240mm radiator there with a bit of dremeling. Google "800D "lower HDD cage" 240mm" and you should find some threads showing how this is done.

 

[Lenkas]

Alright. So doesn't matter how I loop it, it will be almost same temp? Sweet.
Heard that, really like the look of it, but 120$ for the look, its allot, so will ditch that.
I've seen that mod and few others but I don't want to mod my case as I want it stock.

 

[txus.palacios]

Well, so far then it looks good. Keep that RAM cooler, but not for the RAMs (they could care less!), but for the motherboard / surrounding components. Even though they won't get hot, a little bit of air won't hurt them as you no longer have a HSF to cool them.

So far your BOM looks good. Something I would remark:

- I don't know if so many push/pull fans are worth it, specially with such low FPI rads as the XTX are (11 fins per inch). Being honest I think you could go with just a Black Ice GTX 360 on top with 3x AP-15, or if you're good with a soldering iron, a PWM-controlled AP-30.
- Drop one of the D5s. Seriously. That thing is not that restrictive to need a dual D5. A D5 is plenty of power for a watercooling system. Also the Koolance reservoir is outrageously expensive, get one of the new XSPC ones. Not the clear acrylic one, as those suck (I have one and its mounting system is the worst yet), but the new black acetal ones.
- Do you really need a flow meter or a water temp meter? Again, I think this is OK for the "cool factor", but for an actually useful system you don't need that. You just want to know the temps of the things you are cooling, and those things have integrated thermal probes.
- Prebuilt liquid is not a good idea, unless you can't get your hands on a proper biocide or want to give money to the companies. Just get distilled water, it's dirt cheap (I am not American, but I think Walmart sells a gallon for a dollar or so?) and is as good as it gets without entering the realm of the "emits toxic fumes that could kill you". Drop a biocide, whether it is a silver coil or a copper sulfate is your choice. They both kill the bad things.

 

[Lenkas]

Alright.
HSF? BOM?

Well like I posted in first post I have allot of 120mm fans so I can use them with the 360 rad.
I can change to Black Ice in push/pull. But I'm not planing on buying any more 120mm fans.
I'll drop one of the D5 and put a smaller rad. Thanks.
No to both, didn't really think about the temps and I guess I could see if its flowing in rad.
OK, but they supposed to be better since they have more "chemicals" in it.
I've got Deionized water at work, and I could get silver coil or PT nuke (cooper sulfate).
Mostly what I read was to use distilled water or deionized water to clean loop and then use coolants for actual cooling.
I'm not from usa either so I have no idea about walmart.

What res/pump combo is best?
(idk if i can link to shops, just delete it if im not allowed)
XSPC x20 750
XSPC D5 vario
XSPC D5 variant
man these are like 150$ while my other setup would be like 350$.

Thanks again

 

[txus.palacios]

HSF = HeatSink + Fan
BOM = Bill of Materials

More chemicals?
The only chemical that has a better thermal conductivity than pure water (that is liquid at an ambient temperature) is ammonia. That thing is toxic. You don't want that.

If pure water has the best conductivity of non-lethal liquids, any other liquid is worse than water. Thus, any mix of water with another liquid will give subpar results. The only reason why those chemicals might be any better is that they might be anti-corrosion / biocides. Nothing you should care for if you build a system with only copper parts and add your own biocide.

What 120mm fans have you got? You should not mix and match fans for a radiator, specially if it is a push-pull setup.

 

[Lenkas]

Oh.

Well it wont be only cooper, it will be nickel and brass too. But that doesn't matter?
Like I said in first post I have 8 Xigmatek XLF-F1256 from EKWB.

 

[txus.palacios]

Nickel and brass is good.

Sorry, I must have missed that. Well, those Xigmateks aren't the best fans ever for static I think but I read they're good. Maybe a push pull could handle the 20fpi of a GTX.

 

[Lenkas]

Alright...

With the help of this forum and others, we got up to this:

-Motherboard water cooling is near to useless, so ditched that to save money.
-Ditch one of the D5 pumps as one is enough for my loop.
-Cheaper reservior that is pump ready.
-Ditch flow meter and temperature meter with LCD's.
-Loop order doesn't matter, keep it as simple as possible.

Still debating over thick radiator with pull or normal radiator with push/pull. I'm leaning towards push/pull.
Still worried about the corrosion. I'll get to that later.

There are more than 3 options to be considered now, but I'll do 3 diffrent ones with push/pull.
1st:

2nd:

3rd:

About corosion:
I've been reading these few threads and there is allot of diffrent opinions, what do you guys think?
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=900452
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717317
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?245952-Nickel-Plated-or-Plain-Copper-Waterblocks
http://www.overclock.net/t/1259719/noob-at-water-cooling-electroless-nickel-plated-vs-copper
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199118/ek-copper-vs-nickel-what-are-advantages-disadvantages
http://www.overclock.net/t/851501/copper-or-nickel-water-blocks-new-questions-edit
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=44642

 

[Conumdrum]

Distilled and a biocide, all you need.

Have a read.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734842

 

[Lenkas]

What about this:

Most everyone knows tap water causes algae buildup as well as corrosion caused by the dissolved minerals within. Distilled and de-ionized water don't contain any of these dissolved minerals, which causes them to be somewhat corrosive.

The main difference that we see is that distilled water will leach minerals from the parts in the loop, and since the parts are (hopefully) of the same metal, the water will only contain the dissolved metal in the loop. Galvanic corrosion (what you get when you mix copper and aluminum in a loop) can't occur unless there's two dissimilar metals in contact with the water. However, frequently changing the water will result in noticeable corrosion since the nickel coating will be leached each time the water is changed. I believe EK is still electroplating their blocks which means their plating is extremely thin, so it doesn't take a whole lot of time to notice the effects.

or this:

 

[Conumdrum]

Well you can read all you want. I been at this for years as many others. We use distilled and a biocide.

Mixing copper, brass, nickel, silver, chrome is all okay.

And I have used Koolance stuff for years too, no issues.

Have a full read....
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=734842

Most everyone knows tap water causes algae buildup as well as corrosion caused by the dissolved minerals within. Distilled and de-ionized water don't contain any of these dissolved minerals, which causes them to be somewhat corrosive. Wrong.. It's biological growth that cause algae. Tap water has hard minerals in it that can build up on the parts.

The corrisive effect is gone in days due to the release of ions off the metal.

Guess you didn't read this yet either:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651859

 

[Knufire]

Don't use mixed metals in the first place (basically stick to copper) Following that rule, the EK nickel plating has been the only issue with corrosion in recent years with distilled water.

Anti corrosive additives (and in general, all additives) are going to reduce performance of the loop. If you're worried about corrosion, you can do a mix of distilled water and antifreeze.

 

[Meathead]

I did a ton of research on nickel plating and WC loops. Do not get nickel plating unless it is added to the block by electroless plating method. This method greatly increases the corrosion inhibition characteristics of the nickel plating. It will still corrode but at a very slow rate compared to electrolytic plating and I doubt you will have any problems throughout the life of your loop.

Only use distilled and a kill coil if you want to have nickel blocks. Definitely do not use PT nuke as it will greatly speed up the breakdown of the nickel into your loop and other additives have the same potential but I do not have any reliable data outside of PT-Nuke so I cannot draw the same conclusions. It is not needed and I'm not sure why it is ever recommended anyways when a kill coil does the job just fine. I've explained it a few times in various posts so if you'd like a full-on explanation as to why, use the search function.

The fluid's are useless imho. They are a ton more expensive, need to be changed on a more regular basis and cause the system to gunk up faster anyways. Things have always broken down over time and will continue to do so. Stick with as little added chemicals for best results. There is no magic fluid to replace water. Only go synthetic fluids if you want UV color to win some computer mod competition.

I'd avoid anything aluminum as it's never worth it and even if it's coated, one chip or scratch and you're SOL.

*EDIT* I cannot stress enough that it is not distilled water corroding nickel blocks. It plays a small role but after a short time the coolants most companies offer will exhibit the same characteristics that caused corrosion. It has been proven that the inferior and cheaper plating method was used (called electrolytic) to rake in gigantic profits by greedy companies and mixing phosphate based additives into the loop is the sole cause of the nickel corrosion fiasco. I say the companies were greedy and shady because the electrolytic method costs a 1/4 of the electroless plating method cost and they were still charging the same amount for the blocks.

 

[Conumdrum]

Meathead, I used PHN-Nuke, a completely different chemical. Petra (Alex) made both types, PHN was formulated it for use for distilled water loops 4 years after PT was invented..

 

[Meathead]

Meathead, I used PHN-Nuke, a completely different chemical. Petra (Alex) made both types, PHN was formulated it for use for distilled water loops 4 years after PT was invented..

Ah I didn't realize the difference. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll correct my post. PT-Nuke is tested to be bad when used in a distilled+nickel loop. PHN-Nuke has no data that I'm aware of so use are your own risk. I'm not sure how the chloride will react in that environment. You will probably be fine with the electroless plating and PHN-Nuke but I will recommend on the side of caution as always.

Regardless of my mistake about PT/PHN, my point still stands that distilled with a kill-coil is a safe bet.

 

[Conumdrum]

And I agree. Many have used Silver with no issues. Haven't seen any 2 year rigs like mine with just silver. And some block makers even don't want that. Heck I had two silvers in my loop and PHN. Why 2? I had 2.

 

[Meathead]

And I agree. Many have used Silver with no issues. Haven't seen any 2 year rigs like mine with just silver. And some block makers even don't want that. Heck I had two silvers in my loop and PHN. Why 2? I had 2.

Mine was a bit over 2 years as well with just 1 kill coil and distilled. Posted about it a week or two ago with similar results to your own.

I e-mailed koolance about their stance against silver and asked it to be forwarded to their product engineers so hopefully I get the geeky answer I'm looking for and asked them to spare me a sales pitch answer. I'll post when/if I get it so the OP and whoever else cares can be more informed.

 

[Conumdrum]

Over at XS the have a forum just for Koolance. You can ask there. Tim seems to be straightforward in older posts.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

There are many cases out there that are better engineered for watercooling nowadays. 800D is a great case but I wouldn't go beyond CPU + 1 GPU for H20. You can mod it but what happens is you end up paying up more money for the little things that add up which in the end could've possibly gotten a used 900D on ebay.

Nonetheless, looking at your most recent diagrams I see the changes that should make everything fit. Hope to see more pictures of your project when all is set and done.