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Current Race Issues
- Thread starter AQUAJOE
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
good idea, I'll summarize things
1. As has been noted by many people there are problems right now with the credit being reported in the XML file Berkely puts out. I've been comparing the statistics on our team site and SetiSynergy to the stats on SETI@work(which uses the users pages as it's source, not the XML). It seems all the teams are missing 1000s of CS.
2. Right now it looks like Team D has a significant advantage over the other three teams. With the stats being the way they are there's no way to tell if that's actually the case or if they're just lucky and have a greater portion of their credit being reported.
3. There are three people who have shown interest in being in the race since it started; The Wizard, Katelin, and Cy.
4. The possibility of restarting the race has been brought up. If we did we could include the three people mentioned above. Also we might be able to change the source of our data to being SETI@work or the user pages on the Boinc site. This would give us more reliable, hourly updated stats. However our current solution will work once the XML is reporting properly and rewritting the stats page could take quite a while, so this might be more effort than it's worth.
I'm looking into changing the data source, if anyone knows any programming and has an idea of how to accomplish this I would very much appreciate any tips. (heezer knows ASP and I know Perl, so how to accomplish this in one of those languages would be ideal).
So what are everyone's thoughts on this?
1. As has been noted by many people there are problems right now with the credit being reported in the XML file Berkely puts out. I've been comparing the statistics on our team site and SetiSynergy to the stats on SETI@work(which uses the users pages as it's source, not the XML). It seems all the teams are missing 1000s of CS.
2. Right now it looks like Team D has a significant advantage over the other three teams. With the stats being the way they are there's no way to tell if that's actually the case or if they're just lucky and have a greater portion of their credit being reported.
3. There are three people who have shown interest in being in the race since it started; The Wizard, Katelin, and Cy.
4. The possibility of restarting the race has been brought up. If we did we could include the three people mentioned above. Also we might be able to change the source of our data to being SETI@work or the user pages on the Boinc site. This would give us more reliable, hourly updated stats. However our current solution will work once the XML is reporting properly and rewritting the stats page could take quite a while, so this might be more effort than it's worth.
I'm looking into changing the data source, if anyone knows any programming and has an idea of how to accomplish this I would very much appreciate any tips. (heezer knows ASP and I know Perl, so how to accomplish this in one of those languages would be ideal).
So what are everyone's thoughts on this?
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- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
With advance apologies to those who found the race thread after the teams had been laid out; I think the teams should be left as is, and somehow (even if manually) we should pull our statistics from a more reliable (more timely updated) source.
I assume someone pulled and saved the total cobblestone counts for each member of each team as of the start of the race from whatever source was being used. Let's compare that data to a source of total cobblestones such as http://boinc.setiatwork.com/team/stats.cgi?teamid=30199
Then do the math to calculate the gain in work units.
Yes manual would be a hassle, but there are not that many members participating in the race. We could do the updates once per day (I say we because I am willing to help do the math/graphs/calculations in excel and upload them to a web site)
Perhaps the operator of the linked site would even offer to help us put together a webpage since he already has it figured out. I've emailed with him in the past with good results. (he has a "contact me" webform on the site so it is quite easy to reach him.)
Finally: If we start over, or not, if we reorganize the teams, or not, this is all about fun and pumping up production for a program we believe in. (At least I have not seen anything about cash or prizes yet!)
I assume someone pulled and saved the total cobblestone counts for each member of each team as of the start of the race from whatever source was being used. Let's compare that data to a source of total cobblestones such as http://boinc.setiatwork.com/team/stats.cgi?teamid=30199
Then do the math to calculate the gain in work units.
Yes manual would be a hassle, but there are not that many members participating in the race. We could do the updates once per day (I say we because I am willing to help do the math/graphs/calculations in excel and upload them to a web site)
Perhaps the operator of the linked site would even offer to help us put together a webpage since he already has it figured out. I've emailed with him in the past with good results. (he has a "contact me" webform on the site so it is quite easy to reach him.)
Finally: If we start over, or not, if we reorganize the teams, or not, this is all about fun and pumping up production for a program we believe in. (At least I have not seen anything about cash or prizes yet!)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2003
- Location
- Boulder, Colorado
*** I think most of this is covered above - but I typed this monster before noticing the thread move and figured I might as well get it up here ***
Just To clarify: the issue is *not* that heezer's race page screwed up and we could go back to look at the xml to solve the problem - he did a great job and implemented the xml solution very well. The issue is that the xml produced by berkeley is currently having issues. To take a personal example - I have in actuality well over 10,000 more CS than the xml has been showing for the last few days - and many others are experiencing similar problems.
The proposed solution was to hit the actual berkeley "real-time" stats (by proxy, through seti@work) - which are highly accurate and essentially immune from xml generation issues provided data-services stay online (and if data services are down, no manner of statistics tracking is going to work).
The other issue was a few heavy hitters missing the deadline and wanting to get in on the race (rather than having to wait until the end of this one which could potentially be 30-45 days out). Since we *just* started the race, and are having stats problems anyway - there wouldn't be much lost.
I think that addresses your "why" quesiton Aqua, at least it is my take on it. As for how we'd redo the teams - personally I'd like to see it use current rac - I want the race to be fun for all participants - and imho its only fun if its a close, nail-biting, white-knuckled sprint to the finish line
I don't think we necessarily need to do major reorganization, just enough to get the new participants in and maintain fairness. That said - I'm not attached at all to this position - if people want the exact same teams we have now just with the new additions dumped randomly (coin flip?) I'm fine with that.
Ultimately - I only brought it up as a possibility we could consider since people were getting frustrated and we had a few people who missed the deadline to get in on the fun. Since we were having stats trouble anyway it seemed like a good opportunity to, as someone else put it, treat these last few days as a "dry run."
Hope that clarifies my initial posting. I'm having fun with the race (despite stats problems) - I think it is a great idea and once we get the system figured out I'd love to see this become a regular activity for the OC team.
Just To clarify: the issue is *not* that heezer's race page screwed up and we could go back to look at the xml to solve the problem - he did a great job and implemented the xml solution very well. The issue is that the xml produced by berkeley is currently having issues. To take a personal example - I have in actuality well over 10,000 more CS than the xml has been showing for the last few days - and many others are experiencing similar problems.
The proposed solution was to hit the actual berkeley "real-time" stats (by proxy, through seti@work) - which are highly accurate and essentially immune from xml generation issues provided data-services stay online (and if data services are down, no manner of statistics tracking is going to work).
The other issue was a few heavy hitters missing the deadline and wanting to get in on the race (rather than having to wait until the end of this one which could potentially be 30-45 days out). Since we *just* started the race, and are having stats problems anyway - there wouldn't be much lost.
I think that addresses your "why" quesiton Aqua, at least it is my take on it. As for how we'd redo the teams - personally I'd like to see it use current rac - I want the race to be fun for all participants - and imho its only fun if its a close, nail-biting, white-knuckled sprint to the finish line
I don't think we necessarily need to do major reorganization, just enough to get the new participants in and maintain fairness. That said - I'm not attached at all to this position - if people want the exact same teams we have now just with the new additions dumped randomly (coin flip?) I'm fine with that.Ultimately - I only brought it up as a possibility we could consider since people were getting frustrated and we had a few people who missed the deadline to get in on the fun. Since we were having stats trouble anyway it seemed like a good opportunity to, as someone else put it, treat these last few days as a "dry run."
Hope that clarifies my initial posting. I'm having fun with the race (despite stats problems) - I think it is a great idea and once we get the system figured out I'd love to see this become a regular activity for the OC team.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
If we stick with the current teams/stats and don't restart the race we might be able to find another way to include the late comers. We could put them on their own "team" and use them to keep the race close. It could be setup so everyday the team in last place gets 40% of the late comer's credit for the day, third get's 30%, second gets 20%, and first gets 10%. This would help keep the race tight. However I'm not sure how much fun it would be for the late comers since they have no team to cheer for.
Does anyone have any other idea for including the late comers that doesn't involve restarting the race?
Does anyone have any other idea for including the late comers that doesn't involve restarting the race?
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Location
- Prattsville, NY
There are only 11 pages so far to the official BOINC team page.
If we capture them just like Skyhooks daily pages we could get up to date race results for the 20 or so participants in the race and also get daily stats for everyone.
Here are the parameters
?teamid=30199
&sort_by=expavg_credit
&offset=220
If there is another like "&numlines=" we might be able to capture it in one shot.
I'm off to Google to see if I can research some documentation. Anyone with a good connection to Berkeley tech support could do it faster.
Berkeley tech support. Is that an anomaly?
If we capture them just like Skyhooks daily pages we could get up to date race results for the 20 or so participants in the race and also get daily stats for everyone.
Here are the parameters
?teamid=30199
&sort_by=expavg_credit
&offset=220
If there is another like "&numlines=" we might be able to capture it in one shot.
I'm off to Google to see if I can research some documentation. Anyone with a good connection to Berkeley tech support could do it faster.
Berkeley tech support. Is that an anomaly?
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Location
- Out looking for ET... in IL, USA
Graphs auto make now. Sorry it is so small, I can't get my code to auto scale it right yet. It will be easier to see once the lines get spread out a bit. I say we put the newcommers on a new team and stick with this race. If there are one or two more they would make a pretty decent team.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
The problem is that The Wizard puts out 2100cs/day which would totally unbalance any team he's put on. Also, we don't know that the fourth place team is really in fourth place. It could just be that more of their credit isn't showing up than the other team's. (I was checking out Team B's members on SETI@work and we're missing at least 5000cs). So if we just add the new comers to existing teams it will have to wait until after berkeley fixes the XML and we know the real standings.AQUAJOE said:
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2004
- Location
- Dickinson ,TX
I am going to stay out of this one ; it looks like you guys have things in hand I for one will go with what ever you guys decide on . The stats problem has taken some of the fun out of it all . If you decide to start new race ; im for it 
The server is down again so ; Other than that !!!!! Crunch On Everyone 
I for one will go with what ever you guys decide on . The stats problem has taken some of the fun out of it all . If you decide to start new race ; im for it The server is down again so ; Other than that !!!!! Crunch On Everyone
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Location
- Prattsville, NY
hallen said:
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2003
- Location
- Yakima, WA - USA
I'm all for the newcomers to become 'E-Team', but that's just me.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Location
- Out looking for ET... in IL, USA
From the other thread if you missed it since I posted it at the same time this thread started.
That was my biggest thought and why I have not really said what I think. I know I have been working to up my productions and so have others. If we reset it it will be no more machines to push lol. as soon as the xml updates get fixed all the "missing" credit will be applied. Its not like it is gone. I have the total credit for each member on the day the race started ( and every day since then and for 75 days back, hehe) I said before and say again I am VERY AGAINST use the seti web page to parse out stats. I said that when i started the users page 2 months ago. Berkeley releases xml to lower the laod they have on their already struggling servers and I respect their wishes from everyone to use it. I will not even visit setiatwork because i am against their ways. IF there is a really big uproar I will figure out how to parse setiatwork's page for the newest numbers and work off that. I don't feel as hitting the server that is hitting berkeley up but I still don't really want to do it. It would end up being a hack into what i already have, but I will do it if every one really wants it, but it would takes days to write it all and test it to make sure it is producing good results (school is being a pain).
In conclusion, hehe, I say we stick it out a few days and let berkeley get their xml exports back in order. your credit is not lost... just waiting to appear
AQUAJOE said:
That was my biggest thought and why I have not really said what I think. I know I have been working to up my productions and so have others. If we reset it it will be no more machines to push lol. as soon as the xml updates get fixed all the "missing" credit will be applied. Its not like it is gone. I have the total credit for each member on the day the race started ( and every day since then and for 75 days back, hehe) I said before and say again I am VERY AGAINST use the seti web page to parse out stats. I said that when i started the users page 2 months ago. Berkeley releases xml to lower the laod they have on their already struggling servers and I respect their wishes from everyone to use it. I will not even visit setiatwork because i am against their ways. IF there is a really big uproar I will figure out how to parse setiatwork's page for the newest numbers and work off that. I don't feel as hitting the server that is hitting berkeley up but I still don't really want to do it. It would end up being a hack into what i already have, but I will do it if every one really wants it, but it would takes days to write it all and test it to make sure it is producing good results (school is being a pain).
In conclusion, hehe, I say we stick it out a few days and let berkeley get their xml exports back in order. your credit is not lost... just waiting to appear
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
I've got a little pit of Perl under my belt as well, and would be willing to help in any way I could. I also know some C++ and Java, but I don't think either would be of much help for capturing the stats.Stryfe said:
I'm fine with whatever solution is gone with. As it's been said, the XML problems should work themselves out before the race ends, but I'm not against restarting either.
JigPu
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Location
- Out looking for ET... in IL, USA
JigPu said:
Well, Stryfe and I just talked things over and we both agree to keep using the xml only and that will be our official source for added credit.
Also, the late commers will be added to a new team. They might be the under dogs but if you can get more people to join we will add them too. I have everyones credit from that day so you will not have missed out there at all.
I hope everyone can accept this and get back to pushing those machines. Let team D think they are doing good then show them up the moment the xml gets back in order. Think of this as a secret time to get ahead. hehe
Jon
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
Smarty pants.heezer7 said:
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
As heezer said we won't be changing the source for the stats. I'm going to play around with different methods of capturing stats and maybe next race we'll make some changes. So I may be PMing you to pick your brain. Or if you've been pondering it and have an amazing idea you just can't wait to share then you PM meJigPu said:
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Location
- Out looking for ET... in IL, USA
SCREAMING EAGLE said:Smarty pants.
hehe, trying to put a good twist on it... haha... you guys are doing pretty good though! if you want your name changed just let me know.
Edit: Team name changed that is
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- Joined
- Mar 9, 2003
- Location
- Montevideo, Minnesota
I seem to be comming up short a couple thousand 
credits myself so team D might not be so far behind when it all shakes out.
Been trying to figure out what's going on for a while now, my daily production has been dropping even though I have'nt changed anything.
credits myself so team D might not be so far behind when it all shakes out. Been trying to figure out what's going on for a while now, my daily production has been dropping even though I have'nt changed anything.
![[H]pututu](/forums/data/avatars/s/241/241673.jpg?1704411343){kind=avatar}
