First W/C attempt

[Eclectic]

Fist off, hey all, been reading reviews here for some time

Ok, I've spent the past couple of weeks trying to decide where to go with my watercooling set up.

I was originally gonna buy the Zalman, then learnt that it isnt worth a penny, though it does look pretty.
I then decided to buy the Swiftech Ultra+ after reading good reviews.

The more I ggot involved in it, I soon learnt that its still better to go custom. Now its all gotten rather complex, and Im a sucker for bang for buck.
So I finally picked a pump, and went for the Swiftech MCP655 12 VDC Pump (delivered on Tuesday). Which I read its worth sticking with the maximum setting, but after getting confused and some what enlightened reading Cathars The impact of tubing sizes thread, I guess I can actually turn the flow rate down.

Also I have now decided to go with 7/8" tubing. I cant be arsed with playing with a heater core just yet (maybe when Im more confident having water in my beloved box), so I figure Black ICE GT Stealth III will do, as its looks pretty. I have also decided to go for a passive cooling resorvoir, just to help with the heat dissipitation.

Now, for now Im just going to run the CPU block. This is where im getting frustrated. I originally settled for the DD RBX. Then read its a ***** to get a good seating on the core with, so decided against that.
So up stepped the Swiftech Storm, guess what? cant find anywhere to buy it in the UK

So thought about the Apogee for a while, then read a decent review on the DD TDX. So I guess thats the winner, unless you good chaps can enlighten me on something sweet?

I was also thinking of shelling the extra cash out on Fluid XP+, just to be on the safe side. Though I want to know how detremental it really is in terms of carrying heat. Of course Ive read it actually addfs about a degree, though in practical use, im not so sure how true that statement is.

My specs are:
C2D E6600 (I am currently OC'd, and will continue to do so with the watercooling)
Asus P5B Deluxe
BFG 7950 GT
4x1 GB OCZ XTC platinum revision 2
5 HDD's

Its all tucked away in a rather brimming Antec P180. So space is pretty tight, though Im really only going to attempt to mount the pump in the case.
The res and rad im planning on attaching under the desk on the 11" deep board that runs the length of the desk.

Im pretty confident with my Dremel, so modding isnt much of a worry, though I dont want to make my pretty case look bodged.

Please advise where you can, Im budgeting about £160 (the pump was £62 delivered, so about £100 left) out on the kit.

Not worried about GPU cooling just yet, thats another adventure.

So the real question is, what really is the best CPU block to get my filthy hands on?

Also what other advice can I steal from your experienced minds?

Thanks
Eclectic

 

[JamesXP]

The resivour won't help your temps, after awhile your temps will reach some funky word like equalbrium

 

[WonderingSoul]

The Apogee in any flavor (GT or GTX) is better than the TDX.

The BEST blocks out there right now is the Apogee GTX and the D-TEK FuZion

 

[Eclectic]

@JamesXP

hmm, really? Whilst I 100% believe you. I struggle to understand that. Surely the alluminium res would shell out some heat?

Anyhoo, there was a plexi one I really liked the look of, thanks for the info.

@ WonderingSoul

Okies, will look them up, seen them for sale somewhere (theres really not much choice in the UK for WC shopping)

Edit: Found them both, the Fuzion sounds a little funky to mount. Where as the Apogee GT Extreme seems to have a proper mounting kit.

Sounds like the Apogee is the winner.

 

[Fushyuguru]

On the topic of a Res: Assuming youre talking about one of the passively cooled res' I've seen before, it's more of a gimmick than a sound way to increase your cooling efficiency. With just the heat output of your CPU being dumped into your setup, I would guess that any results would be negligible.

To be effective you would need a much higher heat transfer from the liquid in the res to the fins than you achieve from the basic column of water in a tube with fins. Theres just not enough effective surface area to make it a worthwhile option. Maybe if you get good air circulation across it, but that isn't quite passive. It's a case of "It Sounds Good on Paper." If its cheap and you have your heart set, cool. Though if it was as effective as what they try to tout, you would see some of us using them.

To go a step further, many of us (including myself) forgo the res altogether and just use a T-Line for filling and bleeding and a drain line for easy fluid change. I've used res' in the past and just found it unecissary in most situations and a T-line does just fine for a cost of 1ft of tubing.

Leaking (need for FluidXP): If you properly clamp all fittings and leak test a new setup, you should have nothing to worry about. I use 2x zip ties after (or between) the barbs on all fittings and leak test for 24 hr. Also gives plenty of time for the air to bleed.

Many (or most) of us use plain old distilled water with some sort of additive (as a wetting agent, anti corrosive, anti-algea). I use a capfull of Water Wetter and flush the system every 4-6 months, though I could probably go up to 8-10. The distilation makes the water relatively dielectric for a while (it will lose its distilitive/dielectric qualities over time) but is a good safety buffer just when you need it --> When you first put the system together.

Personally I find specialty fluids in this application to be a waste of money if you properly setup and leak test your loop.

 

[Eclectic]

Fushyuguru, sorry for the late reply, been a busy day. Thanks for the input!

The only reason I was planning on the passive cooled res, was that thats basically the principle behind the Zalman reserator 1/1+.
Though it doesnt get great reviews, it is still touted by many as a good system for HTPC and people wanting to cool there CPU at stock usage.

But I no doubt believe JamesXP and yourself is spot on. So, begins the T-loop. I wonder if you could advise on how this works, with maybe some screenies so I can truly appreciate it?

Ive ditched the res now, the pump got delivered today. I have now ordered the Apogee GTextreme, with 3 meteres of Tygon 11.2mm. Whilst Im sure this is an overkill amount, I like feeling like I have enough.

I have a PC to build in the meantime for my brother (he's a steel fabricator, so gonna build me a decent custom shroud for my rad in exchange for his new build - so a sweet deal)so wont really get around to the cooling till atleast the weekend.

Which brings me to another question. Im planning on having the pump in the case. The rad will be outside bolted to the desk, with a 2" clearance behind, with the custom shroud supporting three 120mm low rpm fans. So, as the pipes will be routed through the back of my case. I wonder if there is a quick release plug that also contains a diaphragm or similiar to stop the flow of water, so that I can disconnect, and slide the box out, with only a few mm of liquid spillage?

Thanks again for the info so far!!

 

[ancalime]

First of all, I am pretty sure the MCR320 outperforms the GTS series.

Secondly a T-Line is this: http://www.jab-tech.com/1-2T-Line-for-1-2-ID-Tubing-Clear-pr-3517.html
It operates like a small resevoir per se; it is used to hold the excess water in the loop. Personally, I do not agree that a resevoir is useless. Although I speak with no experience, resevoirs are easier to bleed, and in my opinion, more pleasing to look at. The cost of a T Line and a proper fillport is almost equal to the cost of a resevoir, though a T Line does save space (that is its only + imho).

I believe the plexi glass resevoir you were referring to is the Swiftech MCRES, great choice.

 

[Fushyuguru]

Waterblock: Good choice on the waterblock. Even if it's overkill for now, you don't want to be buying a new block often. You should get a few upgrades out of it as you should have plenty of cooling potential there.

Res: I didn't call them useless. It's just after building enough loops, in many configs. Then trying a T-Line, you may find yourself asking why you need a Res in the first place. It's just another part to run tubing to. I'm of the KISS crowd (keep it simple stupid). However the MCRES is a great choice if you use one.

T-Line: A not so elegant example is here on Danger Den's site, Link , but you get the idea from it. Run a T-Splitter somewhere on the inlet side of your pump (so you won't starve the pump when priming dry) with a vertical piece of tubing comming off. Some people use premade fillports to cap the end (Danger Den has nice Delrin ones), or you can just use a plug or make one yourself. I made my own from a plastic NPT threaded and barbed fitting and a NPT screw cap for about $1.50.

You can also run a drain port in a similar fashion, which I highly recomend. Just think about your tubing bends, where your components are and try to minimize lengths. Then place your T-Line (or Res) where you can prime your pump, and drain where you wont have to disconnect parts, turn your case upside down and do the shake's to get all the liquid out. You want to set it up right the first time so it's easy to maintain later.

 

[ancalime]

^Well I didn't directly quote you or anything but I am sorry if you thought that comment was aimed at you. You have experience while I do not, but when it comes down to it, resevoir vs tline is really personal preference at the end.

To OP: Many water coolers have tried both and some prefer res while others prefer to keep it simple with a T Line. I suggest that you too should give a res a try, seeing as it is a small investment either way. Both methods yield practically the same end result in terms of performance but I guess I prefer resevoirs for the small bling factor more than anything.

 

[billb]

I wonder if there is a quick release plug that also contains a diaphragm or similiar to stop the flow of water,

Colder Products Co.
http://www.colder.com/Products/Plastic/tabid/693/Default.aspx?ProductId=14
Click specifications to see the whole line.

I use their 3/4" no-leak quik connects. (3/4" for the lower flow restriction of the no-leak assenbly.) They're a real time saver.

 

[alinosa]

+1 for having a res... bleed times down to an hour. i ran just a t-line and was perfectly ok too. i'm just impatient. actually, i have a filler tube coming off the second inlet to my res so i don't have to move it to fill it. i just tuck the extra tubing behind the drive bays until i need it. just be sure to follow fushyuguru's advice for placement to prevent any potential pump damage. happy cooling.

 

[Eclectic]

Thanks for all the advice gents. I think I will go back to using a res.

The MCR320 seems to be very hard to come by in the UK. I found it on overclockers.co.uk, but of course, its out of stock. I emailed them, and theY could not confirm when, or even if it will be restocked.

Those couplings billb look excellent. Problem is they are really expensive. I emailed the company this afternoon asking for a webstore in the uk, they replied with www.tom-parker.co.uk but for a set of two delivered was £57!! Thats pretty huge, so gonna check out a few local aquariam and plumbing shops.

Now, I have come to my first hurdle, I was looking for a place to fit the pump (MCP655) in case, and theres only really one place it would fit. That would be right at the bottom, but its right next to the PSU, so I reckon thats a real dangerous place for a leak to occur!

Pics of the inside of my case:


I know its not the tidiest, but thats a failry old pic, all thats changed in that area is changing those IDE's for rounded ones. The problem is this board has only one single IDE connection. The rest are SATA, couldnt leave those huge IDE's I have had for a while now

Anyways, back on topic. There is a fan sitting in the middle there. I dont really need it there as my Hiper Type-R PSU has a 120mm fan and a 80mm exhaust. Im sure that pulls plenty of air through there to keep that lower compartment cool enough.

So I figured I would drill out the rivetts and remove that fan and bracket completely. But I still have the problem with the inlet on the pump.Its doable I think, if I was to Pump > Rad > CPU > Res > Pump. Im just wondering if it would be better just to build a small box and mount it to the wall under the desk, and mount res and pump (possibly build the GT III rad so its the roof of the unit.

Its all gone a bit pete tong. Guess I should have though about pump placement earlier :/

 

[Sam__]

First of all.....Hiper typ-r FTW lol

i think it should be ok to get rid of the fan but the hdd temps might suffer...should be much of a problem tho.

If its easier to put the pmp outside then put it outside lol...unless ur a lanparty kinda person in which you want to keep it all in lol.

gd luck with the whole thing dude....im just about to start my first watercooling venture too.

 

[Eclectic]

Sorry bout the late reply. Its all built though the rad barb leaks. 2 new Alphacool barbs should have been delivered today, but didnt arrive grrr.

Hopefully here tommorow. Though whilst its a very small leak, I did run it for a couple of hours, sat at about 30c idle. The pump is at half speed, so better performance could yet be yielded.
Sitting on my old athlon 3200+ machine right now :/

Anyhow, thanks for all your help, I will still participate when I am back on my main rig.
But for now, heres a pic of the build thus far. The SATA cables just need tidying, and that long inlet hose to the apogee will be shortened when I add the new barbs.

Plus 3 new xilence 120mm fans on order and still waiting on the shroud to be built.



Thanks again people

<3

 

[JamesXP]

You should of got a Thermochill rad we get em cheap than the US

 

[Eclectic]

Ya, the plan was to get the PA120.3. It was there when I checked in the morning, went to work as I didnt have time to order it. When I got home Specialtech.co.uk had sold out. So went back to the GTIII.

 

[Sam__]

looking gd there dude....personaly i would let the system anywhere near my pc if it had any kind of a leak lol...i will be testing my new system for 24hours b4 it gets close to my box....but that all a bit in the future cos i only have a nb water block and a rad so far lol.

would getting more rads down the temps considerably?

 

[Eclectic]

Considerably, no. Maybe a little depending on the ambient temps.

As for the leak test, yeah I know, Thing is, theres pipes running through holes that I cut specifically to fit them. Whilst I wouldnt recommend it, I kind of had no choice.

See if I had leak tested outside the case, I would have had to disconnect everything again, put it in, and re-connect the barbs/hose. Thus possible leaks could occur again. Though I did test that the pump didnt leak in the kitchen sink with a jumpered PSU.

So I bit the bullet, plumbed it in, got a powerful torch and powered it all up. The rad barb was overtightened, as I got the new ones today, so changed them over. Otherwise, still no leaks, though I am about to go out for the day (week off work the kids and missus). So will power down, then watch it later. I bottled it and went for the proven to be non-conductive Fluid XP extreme. So I have a bit of a fall back if it does go wrong, but im pretty confident.

Again, thanks for all the help!

Edit: Think I am gonna have to try re-seating the CPU block, temps are about 32 - 33c idle. I expected them to be 28 or something, as the temp inside my case is 24.6c

 

[Sam__]

yeah i would expect lower temps idle....i second the re-seatt plan

 

[Eclectic]

Will do it later. But heres orthos running for 30 minutes.



Nay bad temp I say. OPlus this is the burn in on the AS5, so Id expect it to get a wee bit cooler yet.

All the same, gonna get some isopropyl (spelling?) when I go out. Then go for the reseat.