I am Extremely Confused about LCD monitors.

[Kunaak]

ok.
got the basics.

TN - bad.
S-PVA - not so bad.
M-PVA - not so bad.
S-ips - good.

however, 100 reviews later, I am beyond lost now.

2 months ago, I bought a Samsung 245BW.
to put it bluntly, it was beyond horrible.
unless your sitting straight up, looking directly at the center of the monitor, the screen randomly changes color depending on your angle of view, cause the shadows of the monitor change with just a small tilt of your head.
so unless I built a neckbrace, that strapped to a pole, that was lodged into my floor, and strapped myself into it, so I could never move, so I would always see only the center of the screen... then it would have been good.
but otherwise, I thought it was just horrible.
so I returned it 2 days later.

at that time, I just assumed, a LCD is a LCD.
they all should look the same.

not even close.
with 4 different competing technologies, each with some advantage and disadvantage, and worst of all, manufacturers almost hiding details like "does a monitor have a TN panel in it?"
who's to know what really makes a good monitor?

especially when reviews seem to only make things 100 times worse?

for instance, I read today, a review from OCUK about the 245BW... which I hated completly.
yet they had nothing but good things to say about it.
however, they did get the monitor for free, which like always leads me to believe the reviewer is bias, and wants to keep relations good, so he can get more free stuff in the future.

and then a monitor I seen 1,000 times over the last 2 months, the HP2408, which to me, looks absolutly beautiful.
Anandtech seemed to just completly hate it.
they way they talked about monitor, one would think they recieved a box full of used toilet paper.

then user reviews only make things worse, cause no one seems to have a consistent opinion on anything.
some love the dell 2407, some hate it.
some say thier $300 soyo 24 is amazing.
others say thiers doesnt even work.

and newegg reviews...
jesus.
does anyone ever get something they dont actually like?
I mean, every monitor cant be a 10 can it?
cause it seems like any monitor I read reviews on, everyone loves it to death....

even my loathed samsung 245bw, which I completly hated, gets rave reviews from owners at newegg.
on top of that, I found out theres 2 versions of the 245bw, one with a S on the model sticker, meaning it was made by samsung - and a higher quality 245bw, and one made by someone else, which is a junkier version of that same monitor.
which only drove me nuts, cause now I wonder, did I just get the crappy one, which is why I hated it so much, and if I did, is the one actually made by samsung really better?

which just lead me to a new thing about monitors .... revisions.
you can buy 1 monitor, and really, have no idea what your actually getting.
take the dell 2407.
today I hear theres actually 4 different versions of that monitor.
each with some different charactoristics, some better then others.
how in the world is anyone suppose to know something like that?

so now I am completly lost.

reviews seem hopeless since it really comes down to what that particular reviewer is willing to put up with.
to some a TN is perfectly acceptable.
to another, they are to be avoided like the plague.

model numbers seem pointless, cause theres no consistency in what your actually getting.
even worse, is if your basing your choice of monitor off a review from some trusted site you like, and buy that monitor, who knows if your revision will match that of the reviewer?



buying a monitor isnt at all like say, buying a videocard.
I can look at a videocards reviews, and go "ok, so a 9600GT, really isnt much different then say the 8800GT or the 3870, besides some minor difference in what game it does better in, but other then that, theres not much difference".



so now I am completly lost.
how in the world is anyone to know what actually is a good monitor?

cause 90% of the time, whatever monitor your interested in, you cant just go to some store and see it yourself....

 

[ThePlato]

What are you using this monitor for? Because for Hardcore gamers, usually your TN panels are better for overall better response time and low input lag.

 

[cliffboss]

ok.


2 months ago, I bought a Samsung 245BW.
to put it bluntly, it was beyond horrible.
unless your sitting straight up, looking directly at the center of the monitor, the screen randomly changes color depending on your angle of view, cause the shadows of the monitor change with just a small tilt of your head.
so unless I built a neckbrace, that strapped to a pole, that was lodged into my floor, and strapped myself into it, so I could never move, so I would always see only the center of the screen... then it would have been good.
but otherwise, I thought it was just horrible.
so I returned it 2 days later.

I bought one of those and i love it

 

[DNA_Dan]

Kunaak, I feel your pain. I am going through the same process looking for a good 19" monitor. I tried the highly touted samsung line 226BW and its little brother the 206BW and both were horrible. I had actually purchased the 20" and ended up returning it. Samsung used to have really good monitors but the quality has really gone downhill. Plus it just depends which LCD supplier you get in the LCD lottery. I am sure a lot of companies are getting like this so some monitors of the same model are great, while others are too red, too blue, have backlight issues. I suppose it's all part of mass producing these things. What I hate is the fact that consumers just eat this stuff up. BIGGER BIGGER BIGGER! That's driving these companies to make huge monitors on the cheap that look like crap. Hell you can't even find a high quality 19" in 4:3 ratio under 1000 now. Everyone is on the widescreen bandwagon and I personally don't care for that format. I do a lot of internet surfing and text reading in word, publisher, etc, and 4:3 is still the ideal ratio for viewing this type of material. I could see getting a widescreen for gaming or movies, but other than that, I'd be happy with the 4:3.

The same thing happened to digital cameras. All the manufacturers are pushing megapixel MORE MORE MORE because consumers think more MP is better. That just isn't true for the average casual photographer that takes a fair amount of pictures indoors in low light situations. Sensor size plays a much larger role in the quality of the photo than cramming more MP in there. But consumers are uneducated, and many just buy buy buy and when it doesn't suit their needs they just throw it away. That's the disposable reality we have created for ourselves. It's very unfortunate.

I just want to be able to go buy a very nice monitor off the shelf at a brick and mortar store without having to be a damn expert on LCD technology. Even when you go look at these things in the store, they have them all tweaked out in contrast and brightness to make them look better than they really are.

 

[spec]

Welcome to the ultimate confusing world of LCD/TFT monitors... Size, Panel type, revision, connectors....
Few months back I was in a similar state, very confused...
I was about to buy a Samsung 245B after reading reviews on retailer sites, then thought I'd google it's performance on gaming, I'm glad I did...
People have many different requirements from monitors, many just game and watch movies up close from the desk, while others mainly watch movies and some want both...

Don't trust retail reviews unless someone has actually put what type of panel and what it was used for....
After doing tons of reading, I decided on a Samsung 244T.
I do a lot of gaming - Crysis, Rally, it works great, no ghosting, lags etc etc
I've also used the panel for watching movies, which I see from about 6-8ft away, and it looks really good.

As for the specs, it's an S-PVA with 6ms G2G, 8 bit.
but numbers don't tell you everything... make sure that you've read some review describing what the monitor was used for. This is a good monitor for the tasks I'm putting it to...

 

[dogbert_2001]

Look at the monitors in the store before you buy

 

[Kunaak]

Look at the monitors in the store before you buy

thats not really an option here in alaska.

hell, that wasnt even really a option down in seattle, and I lived there for 5 years, began my entire PC madness there.
for the 2 million computer stores there, monitors are the one thing you will hardly see anywhere.

now down in portland, I saw a Frys for 1 afternoon...
oooooh, I loved Frys.
every PC part I could name was there, and more.
its like twice as big as most costcos.... and all electronics.
I remember tons of monitors there.

but aside from day dreaming about angelina jolie and frys, I wont be seeing any monitors anytime soo, not here in alaska.

 

[vixro]

Unlike video cards or other hardware where it's easy to choose as specific piece and know exactly what you're getting and how good it will be, monitors are less certain.


There's also the fact that there is not one perfect monitor! Each person has different needs and beliefs and is willing to live with certain minor problems to get the good out of the monitor.

I bought a 19" benQ fp93GX as my first LCD and I thought it was total garbage. Every review I read said it was great for gaming, great for this and that, but it sucked. The colors weren't perfect, there was ghosting in the games, and it was just all around bad monitor (and now no longer works after only a year of use, while it slowly died 6 months in).

My second LCD was a Chimei 22" cmv 221D to which I still use to this day. I thought it was nice and clear when I first got it, the colors were good, and as far as I could tell it didn't ghost in games though it was less certain on the desktop. I always figured the brightness was ok and the monitor was good. I got it cheap and I was somewhat happy with it for the price.

Then I got an LG Flatron 226WTY and WOW (22" again)! I now see what a good LCD really is. The backlight bleed is MINOR at worst. The horizontal viewing angle is huge (though the vertical isn't perfect, but my head is generally at the same level even if I go side to side a lot). The colors are nice, it's very bright and vivid. Gaming, no ghosting at all. No bluriness at all. Moving windows around in windows, no ghosting (which the 5ms chimei couldn't do). The worse part is that it sits right next to the chimei now and I can really see all the imperfections in the chimei.


It really does make a difference to buy quality and I got this monitor after reading a few newegg reviews and comparing it to the others of it's class with newegg reviews. Everyone was very adamant about the LG being good in every situation and I didn't see any negative reviewers. I am glad with my choice and I hope you can be so lucky.

Just stop trying to get so involved with the specs and only look at the important ones. Response time, grey to grey response time (though meant for gaming, is more of a gimmick to show a lower unrealistic response time. If it says 2ms GRAY TO GRAY don't believe its actually useful cause it probably has a 8ms+ on everything else.) Size, make sure you get the size you want with the resolution you're going to be using. Get widescreen, they really are better; less head moving for a larger amount of space. Brightness, look for at least 300. Contrast ratio, 1000 and above is generally a good mark. My chimei was listed as 800 and you can really see the difference. DVI or HDMI, you don't want to use the analog port if you don't have to. It just degrades the quality and adds bluriness and possible ghosting.



When you start trying to get way too technical with the model numbers and every damn spec that is in existence, you only need to read the reviews. Don't read the ones where all they say is positive ****, just read the cons in the posts. When you see a trend, thats how you know what is a real con. Like when everyone says the backlight bleed kinda sucks on a black background, then the backlight bleed might suck a little on a black background. Then you see all the positives and thats the only negative you realize.... all I have to suffer is some backlight bleed? That's the only negative out of hundreds of positives? Then you can make the right decision.

 

[spec]

thats not really an option here in alaska.

hell, that wasnt even really a option down in seattle, and I lived there for 5 years, began my entire PC madness there.
for the 2 million computer stores there, monitors are the one thing you will hardly see anywhere.

now down in portland, I saw a Frys for 1 afternoon...
oooooh, I loved Frys.
every PC part I could name was there, and more.
its like twice as big as most costcos.... and all electronics.
I remember tons of monitors there.

but aside from day dreaming about angelina jolie and frys, I wont be seeing any monitors anytime soo, not here in alaska.

Whoa Alaska... well things are probably similar to that in UK (at least in Bristol) and even Melbourne to an extent.
Most of the stores just display the most common LCD monitors like Viewsonic and some Samsung TN panels... they all look good in store, till you play a movie on them and watch from 6 ft - all TN panels.
I'm yet to see a Dell 24 in-store, though I've seen it at a friends...
Really good monitor - Dell 2407WFP, if you get the correct revision - I think R4.... before that they had issues with ghosting and input lag and I believe some of the reviews stated that the earlier versions had only 6bit processing.

 

[DNA_Dan]

Really good monitor - Dell 2407WFP, if you get the correct revision - I think R4.... before that they had issues with ghosting and input lag and I believe some of the reviews stated that the earlier versions had only 6bit processing.

See that's the thing! manufacturers are using multiple suppliers for their sources and they're just completely inconsistent across the board. That's why I think shopping for monitors is sooooo confusing

A Samsung 226BW is only good if you get "a good one" I bought a 206BW and despite all the great reviews, it was a lemon. So I took it back and paid my damn 15% restocking fee. I just wish manufacturers were forced to use revisions for different suppliers rather than making this huge LCD panel lottery. Because that's what it is right now. I have seen far too many panels, same model, same everything on the surface, but perform completely different because the parts came from a different source.

 

[spec]

See that's the thing! manufacturers are using multiple suppliers for their sources and they're just completely inconsistent across the board. That's why I think shopping for monitors is sooooo confusing

A Samsung 226BW is only good if you get "a good one" I bought a 206BW and despite all the great reviews, it was a lemon. So I took it back and paid my damn 15% restocking fee. I just wish manufacturers were forced to use revisions for different suppliers rather than making this huge LCD panel lottery. Because that's what it is right now. I have seen far too many panels, same model, same everything on the surface, but perform completely different because the parts came from a different source.

Yes, but unfortunately, this is the case, always has been. Even with CPU's retailers don't mention the stepping... So it really depends on what stock they have!
As for LCD's I still think that the best way to go is check for detailed reviews by people who have used it (esp negative ones, as suggested by above earlier), see if the usage in the review is useful to you and if it has relevant information about any version specific problems.
I didn't find any for the Samsung 244T, so I bought that, and it's great!
Though, when I ordered this from one site, it was out of stock and the sales guy tried to sell me another panel from Samsung (245B I think, TN panel) which was half the price...
In the end I guess the revision of a panel has to be determined from reviews, and check when the best version was out, then buy.
As for which panel, I would say S-PVA, but then not everyone has $1000 to spare and wants an HD panel, which does great viewing angles at little higher response and maybe not perfect colour scheme (like IPS panels I think).....
If it's just going to be on price, TN is the only option, as they maybe just 60% of the cost of a good S-PVA....
I've seen many TN panels, by owning or in my office, I don't think it is a good idea to get anything bigger than 19". I've seen a 22" TN panel and the corners of the screen look faded as the viewing angle changes...

 

[videobruce]

and newegg reviews...
does anyone ever get something they dont actually like?
I mean, every monitor cant be a 10 can it?

If you sort the reviews from bad to good you will see that aren't all 5 egg'ers.

 

[mattspalace]

I've always found the reviews from cnet.com to be quite impartial - unlike the other sites where owner loyalty "fanboy" come into play.

I've purchased two HDTVs based at least partially from their reviews. Nothing gets a "10" and they're always pointing out flaws.

The 24" LCDs from Samsung and Dell are among the best according to them; did you try tweaking the settings?

http://reviews.cnet.com/4566-3174_7-0.html?tag=ont.mon.lcd

 

[Shiggity]

I was in the same boat for my LCD purchases, conflicting reviews and a multitude of specs to search through is very annoying.

In the end I just went with top brand names. My first LCD was a 17" sony which I really liked and still hasn't burned out on me after 5 years. My 2nd LCD is my 20" Samsung 204B which I really like.

Granted you will pay more for brands like sony, samsung, dell, HP though.

 

[rseven]

Then I got an LG Flatron 226WTY and WOW (22" again)! .

Recently, I viewed the LG Flatron 227 WTG (I believe it's the replacement for the 226WTY, but I'm not certain) and the picture was the best I have ever seen. I'm seriously considering buying one.

Cheers!

Correction: I just saw at the LG website that the model designation is 227WTQ.

 

[gvblake22]

After spending months and months looking for a good 21" - 24" LCD, I decided there was nothing good available and had to settle for something less than perfect. Good luck finding something you like, because it's about impossible.

 

[videobruce]

Consumer Electronics= something less than perfect.

I have the Dell 2408WFP, but I'm unsure about keeping it.
Screen uniformity issues on both sides and it's a power hog. Almost 3x what my Planar 19" draws.