• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Important Info About Sudden Northwood Death

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

dismal

Registered
Joined
Feb 27, 2004
Location
Miami
Hello Friends,

I have some very important information for you all today. My own personal theory stated on the bottom of Page 6 on the Official SNDS thread has been quite confirmed. Intel even says the Heatsink is an antenna that can greatly effect the CPU.

We know why SNDS occurs, but their are so many variables that it is hard to debug the true reason. Why do some die even when their temp is low, some die when the temp is low and voltage is stock, some die when both are high. One thing in common with all 3 is much higher frequencies and EMI increases. We know voltage can kill a processor, we know heat kills, we know over frequencies cause Electro migration, we can also assume that the processor was not made as good as the ones in last months batch, and so on and so on.

The one thing we have very little control over is the EMI's, radiation and frequencies. So today with a little help from a search engine I was able to find some very interesting documentation provided by a data sheet. Section 2.3 Heatsink Effects: http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumii/applnots/24333402.PDF

"As the processor’s core frequency increases, so does the opportunity for its heatsink to act as a radiating antenna. Studies have shown that its size, geometry, and orientation have an effect on the amount of emissions generated. While Intel cannot recommend which heatsink to use and what orientation is best, as it is system dependent, the designer should consider heatsink effects and determine the best solution for their particular system.

Experiments have also suggested that grounding the processor’s heatsink may reduce emissions. Creating a ground path from the heatsink to either the motherboard or chassis ground will return
some stray current to its source and reduce EMI. While this may have both positive and negative effects on various frequencies, the decision is again left to the system designer on the implementation and whether it has a positive effect on passing regulations.

Other items of note are the thermal interface material (between the processor and heatsink) and the distance of the heatsink to the processor core. Experiments have shown that the distance of the processor heatsink to its core can greatly have an effect on emissions. Since the heatsink acts as an antenna, the amount of processor noise coupled to the heatsink is relative to the distance between the two. A thermal interface material can reduce EMI by helping to prevent the heatsink from getting too close to the processor."


My thinking is... YOU MAY WANT TO HIGHLY CONSIDER USING 'STANDARD WHITE LONG LASTING NONCONDUCTIVE THERMAL PASTE'. YOU MAY ALSO WANT TO GROUND YOUR HEATSINKS TO YOUR CASE.

Take care, Brian
 
THat's talking about EMI coming from the CPU/HSF assembly. I don't see any mention of cpu damage. To permanently kill a cpu, you would probably need a good deal of EMI, like the kind you get from detonating a nuclear weapon...
 
I know nothing about the technical aspects of EMI. However, I have noticed that those suffering from SNDS don't seem to have much in common.

Would this mean that watercoolers wouldn't be affected? I don't think anyone reported SNDS on water, but I can't be sure with that many posts.
 
EMI is being radiated from the proccessor into the air and heatsink does act as an antenna but for emittion of EMI and not the other way around. Granted, it could kill the proccessor if its are near a high EMI Emittion area, grounding heatsink would not help you...
 
It's hard to tell, with the people posting on the SNDS forum if it's their handling care of the processor that ruined it or if it's something else. My point in my thread is basically that Frequencies alone can kill a cpu. Therefore running my 2.6c at 3.2ghz even at an undervolted 1.488Vcore(yes this vcore is correct and on purpose), I still do worry. CPUs arent just rated for voltage, but frequencies as well.
 
Sorry,

But I've got to respectfully disagree with your conclusions based on the document you've referenced.

The reference document is applicable to EMI emissions as relating to FCC/EIA regulations. I see absolutely no nexus between meeting emission regulations & SNDS, nor do I see any support for your theory within the document.

I cannot comment as to the validity of your theory, but I can state, w/o hesitation, there is no support for it to be found w/i your reference doc.

Regards,

Strat
 
It's just like I said on Page 6 of SNDS, only difference is that I am thinking 'absorbing' and they are saying 'radiating'. I still do believe it can not only radiate but also absorb. It's common sence for it to do both.

-

So what do people think of grounding the heatsink?

Some info I have found on the 478pin Intel chips is that two of the CPU pins are for grounding via the motherboards socket. Therefore it is not nessacary to ground the heatsink as long as the motherboard manufacture decided to utilize the cpu grounding pins. In the case that they had grounded it via the pins, would it be unwise to ground the heatsink to the case?
 
Last edited:
I was trying to read that data sheet, and i just blacked out. next thing i know i ****ed my pants, and cant remember who i am. Why would a Mobo manufacturer not utilize the ground pins? thats absolutely ludicrous. Its against regulation of any standard out there. If electricity is involved, there needs to be a ground.
 
so if this "high frequency" theory is correct, then my 1.8 processor running at a pretty fast 3.06ghz is at higher risk than, say a 2.4 running at 3.06.

as far as the EMI theory goes.. i have to say i dont believe it. as Stratcat said, Intel doesn't even state that it deteriorates the cpu.. they just say if you want to minimize it, do such and such.
 
Flakk said:
so if this "high frequency" theory is correct, then my 1.8 processor running at a pretty fast 3.06ghz is at higher risk than, say a 2.4 running at 3.06.

That's what I was thinking....If a 3.2c is safe, how come my 2.4c o/c'ed to 3.122 is at risk? It's basically the same CPU. Makes no sense to me.
 
Gnufsh said:
THat's talking about EMI coming from the CPU/HSF assembly. I don't see any mention of cpu damage. To permanently kill a cpu, you would probably need a good deal of EMI, like the kind you get from detonating a nuclear weapon...


i concur.

Mfrs must comply with emi radiation specs so as not to upset the FCC and office environs.
 
Exactly. And this is monitored extremely closely due to a great deal of risk to variable equipment in the event that this were true. Not to mention the health risks.

Kinda on/off topic - but I had an old Ricoh 4x burner that would crap out whenever the microwave was fired up a floor below. Blew my mind.
 
RubiX³ said:
Kinda on/off topic - but I had an old Ricoh 4x burner that would crap out whenever the microwave was fired up a floor below. Blew my mind.

Thats the craziest story round the campfire I ever heard. Im crying here, thats good stuff.
 
Back