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Intel VS AMD in the workplace

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barton2500 said:
Where can I get a 1700 for $ 40 Cdn? The Duron 1.0 is $45 Cdn.

Personally, I wouldn't buy from this vendor, they don't sell AMD retail processor. The stock heat sink and fan might not be top of the line, but the processor does have 3 year warranty.
Click to expand...


Hello Barton:) ,
Have you tried www.newegg.com? Iam not quite sure that it ships to Canada though :(. They tech support is wonderful and I recomend you send an email to them asking for an "special order" to Canada. One of the newegg representatives gave me free shipping on a Tower case(but later said he could not) but I canceled the order. Pretty sure you can work something out. Also try www.zipzoomfly.com, it isnt bad either.
Hope my post helped you. :)
~Virgin Atlantic~:cool:
 
deathman20 said:
Well if money really isn't an issue for the depatment, go the intel way. The students will see a nice preformance if they use multiple apps at the same time. If not go AMD.

I took for the setups (just a guess)
AMD
A7N8x-VM $141
XP2400 $122
DDR400 256M $60
Total $323

Intel
ASUS P4P800-VM $151
P4 2.6C $263 (normally can get this for 170 bucks!!)
DDR400 256M $60
Total $474

Dang now thats that I call a price jack on the intel parts. Someones making money off that deal.
Click to expand...

Wow... 256mb ram and a 2400+ a performance difference? maybe if you are fully utilizing the capabilitys, but if you have IE, itunes, word, and maybe WMP or something open, I doubt you could tell much of a difference.
 
I see a XP1800 for $49...but it is US pricing.

Most likely the parts are have to be purchased from the one UW usually buys from...so the parts are chosen from what is available and the prices are also from them.

Here are my choices for now:

Common hardware:
(remember the prices are in Cdn dollars!)

Inwin H500 Desktop Case $63
Western Digital 400JB ATA 100 IDE Hard Drive (40G, 8M Cache,8.9ms,7200 rpm) $93
DDR400 256Mb $60
Floppy Drive: $10
3 inch Ball Bearing Chassis Internal Fan $8
Total for common components: $234

AMD:
Duron 1.0 Ghz $45
Cooler Master CP5-8J71F Aero 7 Lite $25
A7V8X-MX $89
Total including common components: $393

XP2000 $102
Cooler Master CP5-8J71F Aero 7 Lite $25
A7V8X-MX $89
Total including common components: $450

XP2400 $122
Cooler Master CP5-8J71F Aero 7 Lite $25
A7N8x-VM $141
Total including common components: $522

Intel:
Celeron 1.7 $89
ASUS P4BGL-MX $86
Total including common components: $409

P4 1.6 256K 400 FSB $185
ASUS P4BGL-MX $86
Total including common components: $505

P4 2.66 $246
ASUS P4BGL-MX $86
Total including common components: $566

P4 2.6C $263
ASUS P4P800-VM $151
Total including common components: $648

These computers don't require a CD drive, all installs are done through network.

Which one makes the most sense?
 
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Chances are, there's going to be little difference between an XP2000 and XP2500 for the type of use in the lab. HT performance gain won't show up for the same reason, although 800 FSB is nice. 256 Mb is enough, otherwise, I would have chosen 2x256 Mb for dual channel.

Which is better, a 1.6 Willamette or a 1.7 Celeron?
 
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honestly, answer his question guys, those type of comments dont really help him. a 1.6 willamette would eat almost any celly, so definately go willamette if its within the same price range. IMO If I were building it I'd consider a pentium3 1.3 ghz and OC it, before id consider any speed celeron, but I play games and have never been impressed with socket 423/478 cellys. Nonetheless if all these are going to be used for is email/web/word, you probably wouldnt notice much difference, other than loading times into windows, even a slower celly such as a 1.7 should do the trick. I however would not recommend going with willamette cores, as you'll find it harder to get upgrades, it being a core that is no longer in production...
I didnt look for too long, but I couldnt find many 423 p4s(willys) in stock, and what i could find was more expensive than the 478s, which as i said, would be a better choice anyway.

I found 1.8ghz s478 p4s for $124 here (better deal than the 1.7)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80629-478
and 1.8ghz s478 cellys here for $56
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?DEPA=&sumit=Go&description=19-112-172&searchdepa=0
theres a good price difference between them...I dont know if you'd really need the extra performance of the p4 now...and perhaps if you do need to upgrade them later, pending you went with a socket 478, you might find p4s for really cheap down the road. How long do you plan on keeping these machines?
 
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In a classroom environment its intel and its a freakin no brainer. Intel + Dell gives HUGE discounts to schools when they sell their comps to them. It's substantial enough that even when our school's budget was tight, we bought a crapload of comps, all intel, all dell, for the lab + library + etc. You throw out numbers, but they mean nothing, because in a school environment, each comp costs much less than a comp WE would build. Schools buy in bulk, get a discount for that... schools buy as... umm schools and as educational organizations.. even more discounts... and the cheap computers @ dell are EXTREMELY cheap. and thats ALL they are looking for. I am 100% sure that schools are getting p4 1.8As in some CRAP computer for under 300, possibly even under 300 dollars per comp. Does AMD do this for schools? No, at least not as far as I know.

For enthusiasts, who want a cheap and effective system, AMD offers, whereas Intel turns out to be the more expensive option that performs slightly better, but isn't the bang for the back, but for large organizations, Intel > AMD, because its just that much more cost effective (based on discounts provided by companies, and special deals). And on the topic of heat output, running @ stock speeds, I have NEVER heard anyone having temp problems with the intel retail heatsink/fan, though I HAVE heard problems about people using the AMD retail heatsink/fan @ stock speeds. Don't come in here arguing that YOU haven't had problems with the stock heatsink/fan cuz thats not what I just said, but I'm sure you've read about the inadequacy of the AMD retail heatsink fans, so definitely a school would rather deal with the more trusty intel hs/f than the AMD one?
 
Note: this is for UW, so no overclocking, and we always buy from the same vendor

The Willamette 1.6 was for socket 478, but I overlooked the Northwood 1.8 that is $199 Cdn..only $14 more. Going for the 1.8 makes sense, but would it be worth getting a P4 2.6c for HT, which costs $263 Cdn?

Probably won't be upgraded, this machines should last as long as the Pentium IIs being replaced.
 
In a classroom environment its intel and its a freakin no brainer. Intel + Dell gives HUGE discounts to schools when they sell their comps to them.
Click to expand...
Exactly, I work @ a University & this is why we buy Dells. They may not be the best product on the market but they have two HUGE advantages.

1. The offer steep discounts to all educational institutions
2. They stand behind their products. If it breaks you'll have a replacement part in short order.

The number of machines doesn't matter - it's an educational discount - 1 or 1,000

For 24/7 machines where reliability is the key I see no reason to O/C the machine. You should be able to get a mid 2's P4 from Dell in the $400 range (box only?) - might even be lower. No reason to get a cel-a-crap (hell, why not buy a comodore 64 - lol)

As for reliability my experience has been that the CPU will most likely outlast all the other parts of the system. I've had both AMD & Intel boxes run for years w/o a problem. In fact I often open up old machines (as in a dual PPro 200 PRODUCTION server - lol) & wonder how the heck they are still functioning w/ all the dust inside.

In all the years I've been working w/ servers & workstations I've had exactly one chip fail - a PIII where the fan on the HS stopped - this wasn't even the chips fault.

I'm neither an AMD nor Intel fan, but you'd be hard pressed to beat the deals Dell/Intel offer for educational institutions.
 
I don't know much about the large discount purchases from Dell. But if thats true, you're probably better off going that route. Dells are a pain to upgrade and repair, but large setups that probably isn't of main concern. I love AMD, but if you can get Intel Boxes with warrenties for cheap, go that route. Intel makes good office chips. I think unless this lab is for like video editing or graphics stuff, pretty much any of these setups will be enough. (If they are for graphics stuff, I'd recommend you concern yourself with RAM more than CPU speed)

Have you considered the duron? We run a lot of them here. They get the job done nicely and are cheap. The new applebred ones sound interesting too.
 
You should be able to get a mid 2's P4 from Dell in the $400 range (box only?) - might even be lower. No reason to get a cel-a-crap (hell, why not buy a comodore 64 - lol)
Click to expand...
Is that 400 US or Cdn? If it was US, I can get P4 2.66 Ghz for $566 that I listed in the previous post. I'd also like to know if you are paying Win XP on the Dells. We don't need to pay for it...computer labs can use MSDN-AA license, which is free.

I've checked into Dell's website and they offer discount for K12..not for University.

I'm considering the Duron 1.0..$393 for that system vs $450 for AthlonXP 2000. I think I'll go with Athlon if I decide to go with AMD.
 
Is that 400 US or Cdn?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I should have noted it was USD.
computer labs can use MSDN-AA license, which is free
Click to expand...
Same here, we have a site license.
I've checked into Dell's website and they offer discount for K12..not for University
Click to expand...
http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=ca&cs=CAHIED1&l=en&s=hied

I can't give you specific purchasing dollars due to the crazy way we purchase comps. We buy in bulk lots & then store them in a wharehouse until they're needed - lol - dumb, dumb, dumb! If you use this article as a reference - http://www.overclockers.com/tips00497/ Dell is selling a mid range P4 to the public for $349USD ($456CDN) - I've got to believe that they'll sell the same item to a school for less.

Specs -

$50 less, More RAM, and freebies this week.
Dimension 2400 Desktop P4-2.53Ghz 256MB/40GB HD, Free Printer, PDA, or camera, 48x CD Writer, Ethernet, Modem, Word Perfect/MS Money, XP Home $599 - $50 discount in cart - $200 rebate = $349 shipped free.

A nice lab machine, the "performance" version bumps the price up to $574CDN (remember that's to the public).

Pentium 4 with HT Technology, Intel 865 chipset with dual channel DDR memory, AGP 8x and more
Dimension 4600 Desktop P4-2.6Ghz/800Mhz bus 256MB/40GB HD, Free Printer, PDA, or camera, 48x CD, Ethernet, Modem, Word Perfect/MS Money, XP Home $439 after $200 instant discount in cart, shipped for free. 17" e171FP LCD +$350, save $100.

I'm no great "Dell Fan" but they are tough to beat on machine prices. Intel pays a HUGE portion of their advertising costs & gives Dell a very steep discount on CPU prices. This allows Dell to make machines very cheaply. Dell also provides good support, we rarely have to wait more than a couple days to get a part. I can't give you much detail on the gold/platnuim service levels we have a global contract for all our machine & don't pay on a per/machine basis.

I CAN give you an example of a recent server purchase (we do those one @ a time :D ) Website price was just over $4,000 & our cost was just UNDER $3,000.

Wish I could be of more help, but I don't get into the purchasing aspect all too often (I'm actually a web developer :D ).

It's atleast worth a toll free call.

Edit:

I just went through the Dell Canadian Edu & got $439 (CDN I believe, since I went through the Canada site) for a 2.4g P4 w/ a 40g HDD, 256mb RAM, cd & cdr drive w/ mouse & keyboard, onboard audio, onboard network & 56K modem. That's w/ XP home, probably even less if you called them to lose the OS & the modem. This is for 1 machine, 30 would most likely be less.
 
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The cheapest Dell on Canada->Higher Education website with a P4 2.53 I've been able to configure costs $608 before shipping and tax. That's more than the $566 P4 2.63 Ghz that I have listed. I'll go with the vendor that UW currently uses..and the $566 will go even lower..those prices are also a month old too.

Dell's configuration

They have a free(yeah, right) CD-RW but that is unnecessary. We do not want students to use the CD-RW to copy software from the lab machines. And that package included a Home version of Win XP..I can not choose no OS. And a floppy drive was not included..adding one costs $30, very unreasonable.
 
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The $608 is for 3 years warranty..if i drop it to 1 year, it's $439. That's pretty cheap..but they charge $139 for shipping.

Now if Dell can sell it cheaper without WinXP Home and without the free CD-RW, then it's worth a shot. But Dell hardware is proprietary...would be difficult to fix if something breaks after 1 year
 
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