Ivy Bridge flops; AMD users can take heart

[trents]

In light of the Bulldozer disappointment, I find it very interesting that Ivy Bridge is apparently a flop from an expectation standpoint. I was looking at some Intel early adopter comments in various places and Ivy apparently affords almost no performance advantage over Sandy Bridge and is a poor overclocker because of heat issues. Maybe AMD can gain back some ground with Pile Driver.

 

[arkan]

It would be nice if AMD could make up some ground. I believe IB would have been a bigger performance boost if Intel had felt it needed it to be. With no real competition right now, they just took their power improvements and called it a day pretty much.

 

[Don Karnage]

In light of the Bulldozer disappointment, I find it very interesting that Ivy Bridge is apparently a flop from an expectation standpoint. I was looking at some Intel early adopter comments in various places and Ivy apparently affords almost no performance advantage over Sandy Bridge and is a poor overclocker because of heat issues. Maybe AMD can gain back some ground with Pile Driver.

Must have been some sandy bridge owners whose comments you've read.

Heat isn't an issue to most of us and 5-8% better ipc is better then no % ipc gain.

Piledriver hopefully will achieve denab ipc levels.

 

[trents]

Comments that I was reading were saying more like 3% performance gain and the heat issues were tied to adding CPU core voltage for higher overclocking.

 

[Randyman...]

IMNSHO...

 

[Don Karnage]

Comments that I was reading were saying more like 3% performance gain and the heat issues were tied to adding CPU core voltage for higher overclocking.

Anyone complaining about ivy overclocking should stay with something easy like sandy. Ivy requires some more skill and finesse to get the most out of it.

 

[trekky]

man i REALLY hope piledriver will get some ground! this is what AMD needs to get close/ pass intel again!

 

[diaz]

If you call IB a flop.. it still leaves AMD in the dust. I really wish AMD would do something about it, I would gladly switch over to AMD if there was competiton coming from there.

 

[Neuromancer]

I would like for AMD to gain some ground on Intel.

That would happen pretty easily if people stopped using the Intel compiler for X86 applications that we use for benchmarks.

However AMD CAN do it. they did it with AMD64. the First AMD chip to outperform Intel (by a LOT) on an Intel compiled application. Amazing stuff.

I dont consider IB a flop though. I have not seen the performance reviews on HD4000 and that was the major change. I dont see any SB chips doing 6+ GHz thats another change. Why? Maybe it has to do with that no soldered IHS. Thermal paste acts as an insulator when cold at points and why certain brands are preferred among the extreme enthusisasts. OCZ freeze I think was popular and drove coldbug points from -140 to -110 for some users. (Why? Because it performed better at subzero temperatures... gotta remember temps are taken at bottom of pot not top of cpu)

Can pile driver do it?

No not likely. Even if they performed exactly even with Intel,. they will still lose in benchmarks because optimizations wont be included without a Intel CPU vendor string being received.

People like benchmarks as it is empirical. I only dedicated a page or two to benchmarks in my reviews because I recognize what they are. Flawed software samples that are manipulated and optimized by the very companies we read reviews on.

I only include them for the benchers/clockers that do so for sport. If I reviewed for CNET or something, I would not use any publicly available software to review.

then again IOmeter is really popular too, and thats Intel optimized code from Intel and distributed by Intel software. they dont even both pretending its not Intel.

Hmm I just got some new storage test ideas.

 

[muddocktor]

If you call IB a flop.. it still leaves AMD in the dust. I really wish AMD would do something about it, I would gladly switch over to AMD if there was competiton coming from there.

I am sure that AMD wishes they could come up with a processor like the "flop" Ivy Bridge. They would drool over having such good IPC.

Seriously, heat isn't a big issue unless you start pushing the volts to IB. If you stick with an overclock of 4.5-4.6 where you don't have to ramp up vcore, temps are pretty close to what SB gives at those clocks. The biggest problem I am running into with IB is compatibility with older chipsets. I have 3 different P67 boards and 2 different Z68 boards and except for 1 board I can't overclock worth beans on them. The one board I can overclock on with a 3770K is an Asrock P67 Extreme6 B3 board. Strangely enough, I also have a B2 revision of that board and with the same bios version flashed I can't overclock the 3570K I got with it. Next step is to try the 3570K in the B3 board that is doing ok overclocking the 3770K proc in and see if the problems are related to the 3570K or to the B2 rev of that other board. I had traded here on the forums and didn't even realize until now that the board was a B2 rev. I guess I will have to ask Asrock if they will exchange it for a B3.

 

[Neuromancer]

I am sure that AMD wishes they could come up with a processor like the "flop" Ivy Bridge. They would drool over having such good IPC.

Seriously, heat isn't a big issue unless you start pushing the volts to IB. If you stick with an overclock of 4.5-4.6 where you don't have to ramp up vcore, temps are pretty close to what SB gives at those clocks.

That is the isue. would you take a 4.5GHz IB 24/7 OC or a higher SB OC despite needing "movre volts" for 24/7 usage.

the whole die shrink thing was supposed to improve everything. It has not

They counteracted that with removing the multiplier limit and possibly separating the CPU multiplier from the cache multiplier. Which SB so apparently has. Its why CPU clock increases improve memory performance. Been there done that wrote the report.

IB until I use it and find out myself.. must have the ability to separate CPU multi from cache multi. (In fact this non-separation was seen as a boon pre-release).

do what you gotta do with it,. IB is NOTHING more than die shrink that does not conform to usual die shrinks where things are improved... has crappier thermal solution, and a marginally better GPU integrated.


To cover it up they unlocked the multiploer so benchers can set some new records with it.

thats not a boon of IB, thats another reason NOT to buy Intel since they locked down the last gen so much


Oh yeah and///
For intel that touted 10% IPC increase a year ago... thats a flop.

 

[trents]

Well said, Neuromancer. Exactly my point, which is not that IB is a bad processor but its a flop relative to the hype surrounding it, as was BD. More of a side step than a step up. Of course, core stepping improvement may in time change that picture a little bit for both products.

 

[CMI1986X86]

I look at IB somewhat in the same light as I look at BD. Both are still perfectly capable CPU's that just didn't live up to the hype their marketing teams put out for them. Both are more of a side grade from previous generation's than a cost worth upgrade. IMHO the only real benefit to an IB build over SB at the moment is in the case if one were to use the new intel 4000 graphics.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

I think ib lives up to all the hype at stock. The only arena it is disappointing in is air/water overclocking - on subzero people are scrambling for it also.

But at stock, all the benefits of the process shrink are there, plus a moderate increase in IPC that varies dependant on what application you use to measure it.

I think a lot of people expected more from IB than was advertised. I think bulldozer advertised more than what it delivered.

 

[Frakk]

Its 3.7% according to TH

What info there is on PD it will have 15% higher IPC than BD, run 20 - 30% higher stock clocks and run cooler.

That should be a good recipe, and if it overclocks well AMD just might do good.

Not holding up any hopes, time will tell.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

3.7% is the average of a bunch of arbitrarily selected apps that 60% of people may use one or two of. Better to look at apps specific to what you use to make a good decision. One is 0% better, a few are 1.5% better, and a few are as much as 7% or so better.

I hope Piledriver is more competitive. It just doesn't help when they dig a big hole... When you lose 5-15% IPC going from deneb/thuban to bulldozer, a 15% improvement (claimed by AMD marketing) sounds like what we wanted Bulldozer to be, but 12 to 18 months late... And hopefully 15% isn't a best case scenario in benchmarks we don't pay attention to.

Haswell is supposed to be another SB sort of jump (tock)... If it is all that, it will be a pretty hostile environment for Piledriver.

 

[muddocktor]

I will tell you one area that IB shows a clear gain in performance over SB and that is in power usage. Not so much at idle, but when under load it pulls noticeably less power than SB at the same clocks.

Here are some concrete numbers. Power figures are read off of my APC UPS1500 screen with both processors. Both processors are clocked at 4.5 at the lowest stable vcore I found for them. This is on the same system, with just a processor swap done on it.

2600K @ 4.5
idle watts - 150-152 watts
P95 Blend load watts - 278-281 watts
load vcore - 1.328

3770K @ 4.5
idle watts - 149-153 watts
P95 Blend load watts - 255-258 watts
load vcore - 1.192

Those loads were read with the computer and monitor being actively monitored on that system. The same monitor settings were used for both runs.

 

[Frakk]

3.7% is the average of a bunch of arbitrarily selected apps that 60% of people may use one or two of. Better to look at apps specific to what you use to make a good decision. One is 0% better, a few are 1.5% better, and a few are as much as 7% or so better.

I hope Piledriver is more competitive. It just doesn't help when they dig a big hole... When you lose 5-15% IPC going from deneb/thuban to bulldozer, a 15% improvement (claimed by AMD marketing) sounds like what we wanted Bulldozer to be, but 12 to 18 months late... And hopefully 15% isn't a best case scenario in benchmarks we don't pay attention to.

Haswell is supposed to be another SB sort of jump (tock)... If it is all that, it will be a pretty hostile environment for Piledriver.

Yeah, as long as the IPC is back up to where my Thuban is + have 4Ghz Stock clocks + run just as cool + OC to 4.5Ghz on an inexpensive cooler and be cheaper than IB i'm happy.

As for Haswell, its a year and more off yet and AMD also have another chip lined up for that time.

What worries me more is the fact that the likes of you and me are a dyeing breed.

The world is moving away from high powered clunky desktops crammed with expensive high performance components.

Everything is going compact and mobile, and AMD is moving with it rapidly loosing interest in you and me.

Picture this...

Sony are looking to turn there TV sets into complete media stations, complete with live HD streaming, cloud computing, video and photo editing and DX11 full HD gaming and so on.

Along comes Intel,- "we have this"
Its only 35w and has great IPC performance.

nVidia,- "and we have this"
25w and its great for HD streaming and gaming.

AMD,- "yeah that's nice but you don't need all that, all you need is this"

35w and will do everything you need it to, plus as an added bonus it will cost you less than the other two combind, use less power and generate less heat.

Its unfortunate but reality, and even more unfortunate is the bad press AMD have been getting over the past few years has forced then to do the one thing they do very well, "innovation" and accelerated the coming to an end of an era for us.

If there next "enthusiasts" hardware remains our communities whipping boy they will turn the (APU / Fusion) dial up to 11.

For me there is more at stake here than one company, that company will be absolutely fine believe you / me.

Two of the three Game Console manufacturers are already eating out of AMD's hand.

 

[xander89]

Ib will be a viable upgrade if/ when the heat is dropped down. The problem is the 3-7% increase is negated when you can OC the last gen higher and make up that increase, its like im deciding whether or not to buy the 7950 or 7970. If i could OC the 7950 so its max OC matched the 7970's max OC, which would you go for? Spend the extra £60 for the latest tech just because?

I can understand that Sub zero Oc'ers and people running at stock are loving it. But those in the middle ground on high end air and water wanting to push high stable 24/7 OC's the IB offers very small/if any performance gains.

Its just being impatient rushing and buying the first rev then vainly defending it, its like the poor ******* who got a Nintendo instead of a Playstation, and has a crusader like attitude about how amazing their console is because they got a raw deal. Wait till they have sorted out the TIM.

I would love to see AMD bring out a chip that actually gave intel a run for their money. It would seriously push down prices and would be better for everyone.

 

[Don Karnage]

Ib will be a viable upgrade if/ when the heat is dropped down. The problem is the 3-7% increase is negated when you can OC the last gen higher and make up that increase, its like im deciding whether or not to buy the 7950 or 7970. If i could OC the 7950 so its max OC matched the 7970's max OC, which would you go for? Spend the extra £60 for the latest tech just because?

I can understand that Sub zero Oc'ers and people running at stock are loving it. But those in the middle ground on high end air and water wanting to push high stable 24/7 OC's the IB offers very small/if any performance gains.

Its just being impatient rushing and buying the first rev then vainly defending it, its like the poor ******* who got a Nintendo instead of a Playstation, and has a crusader like attitude about how amazing their console is because they got a raw deal. Wait till they have sorted out the TIM.

I would love to see AMD bring out a chip that actually gave intel a run for their money. It would seriously push down prices and would be better for everyone.

Im one of few who isn't having heating issues at 4.7 on air with ivy. Yeah the chip runs super warm with ibt but in everything else it barely breaks 65c