Need help dissuading a friend from going Apple.

[fuzzba11]

I've got a good reason. When Apple upgrades to using Intel chips, they are going to release a new OS. With this release, all the Mac programs are being rewritten(Photoshop, Final Cut Pro...). That means that if she buys an Apple now, not only is her hardware going to be obsolete, but her software will be, too.

I'd recommend showing her some programs for PC that you can't get for Mac. Google Earth, for one...

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

^^^ good point.

 

[Schalldampfer]

I've got a good reason. When Apple upgrades to using Intel chips, they are going to release a new OS. With this release, all the Mac programs are being rewritten(Photoshop, Final Cut Pro...). That means that if she buys an Apple now, not only is her hardware going to be obsolete, but her software will be, too.

I'd recommend showing her some programs for PC that you can't get for Mac. Google Earth, for one...

Hmm... well... let's just say that that won't be much of a concern for her.

 

[Gnufsh]

To be honest, an apple sounds perfect for her. Go for it. OSX is a decent piece of software (and some people actually like the user interface, even though it annoys the heck out of me). The hardware is decent as well. Personally, I like the PPC, even though it is currently (and has been for a long time) behind performance wise (does she really need the fastest computer on the block anyway?). There will be quite a transition period where many programs will run on both architectures (mostly using fat binaries I believe), so that shouldn't be a huge worry. There are, in fact, valid reasons to choose a mac.

If, however, she chooses a tool (after all, that's all a computer is) merely by the way it looks instead of the way it works, she is a fool. What I'm saying is that while a mac may be a good choice, if she chooses it for the wrong reason, I have no respect for her or the choice (and you probably shouldn't either).

edit: As you may note from this last part, this thread caught me in a bitter mood. I apologise.

 

[Schalldampfer]

To be honest, an apple sounds perfect for her. Go for it. OSX is a decent piece of software (and some people actually like the user interface, even though it annoys the heck out of me). The hardware is decent as well. Personally, I like the PPC, even though it is currently (and has been for a long time) behind performance wise (does she really need the fastest computer on the block anyway?). There will be quite a transition period where many programs will run on both architectures (mostly using fat binaries I believe), so that shouldn't be a huge worry. There are, in fact, valid reasons to choose a mac.

If, however, she chooses a tool (after all, that's all a computer is) merely by the way it looks instead of the way it works, she is a fool. What I'm saying is that while a mac may be a good choice, if she chooses it for the wrong reason, I have no respect for her or the choice (and you probably shouldn't either).

edit: As you may note from this last part, this thread caught me in a bitter mood. I apologise.

No, no, no need to apologize. I respect all your opinions. I'd rather have them be frank rather than covered up and euphorized.

 

[Oni]

I don't really understand why you're trying to talk her out of it. I mean, if the machine will do what she needs it to do, then that's good.

That, and if she gets a Mac, there will be no calls of 'I got a virus again' or 'I got huge amounts of Spyware' or something. There aren't many virii written for the Mac platform, and afaik, spyware doesn't really attack the Mac like it does the Windows platform. That's a win for you, 'cause you won't have to be over every 2 days fixing the damn thing.

You also have to remember, that if you're the one that pursuades her to purchase a PC over a Mac, the onus will be squarely on YOU to do the tech support. Something breaks, doesn't work right, burns out, it'll be your problem. Then you'll get to hear 'If I had gotten a Mac this wouldn't have happened!' every 5 minutes while you're over fixing the damn thing.

Personally, I think a Mac would be good for her to get. If it'll do everything she wants, then I see no reason to tell her not to get a Mac.

Hell, if I could afford it, I'd have myself a nice PowerBook or iBook. I don't need to game on a laptop, so it'd be perfect.

 

[David]

I don't see why she shouldn't buy a mac. For anyone who just does word processing, graphics, internet, email, irc, etc a Mac would be just fine. Instead of going on an OMG NOES YUO CANNOT BUY TEH MACKINTOOOSH! rant maybe you should stop, think, and work out what she needs rather than instantly disregarding Macs from the outset.

A friend of mine at work bought a powerbook for email, internet, word processing. He loves it. Whatever floats your boat.

As for the Apple going to x86 thing. Macs arent the sort of things I would say you would upgrade. They are like fridges. Old fridge useless now? Buy a new one.

Remember there are thousands of publishers, home users, businesses and so forth using PPC Macs at the moment, so the sofware is going to be maintained for at least a few years yet.


OSX is a nice OS, but I know what someone meant by "too simple". It works fine, but you cant get into the guts of it.

 

[whooping_a_panda]

As for the Apple going to x86 thing. Macs arent the sort of things I would say you would upgrade. They are like fridges. Old fridge useless now? Buy a new one.

I think the main concern isn't going to be with the hardware itself as a bottleneck but rather who is going to be willing to make future programs workable with the ppc architechture. Are we going to be forever stuck with office 200x or photoshop x.x. if we lock ourselves into a ppc. or will devs be nice enough to continue support for these products for another year? two? 10? If they decide not to give support to the architechture those holding onto their ppc's are either gonna have to learn the in's and out's of emulation mighty quick or they're going to need a new fridge a lot sooner than expected.

Remember there are thousands of publishers, home users, businesses and so forth using PPC Macs at the moment, so the sofware is going to be maintained for at least a few years yet.

Maybe I'm a glass half empty kind of person but I can also see apple wanting everyone to buy new refrigerators next year, and this would be the easiest way to make a lot of people's wallets light and their tempers short. Ultimatly though it comes down to the devs. Does Microsoft wish to continue developing its office suit across two platform? Will Adobe put the funding forth to make an upgrade for Photoshop CSx knowing the platform is going stagnant?

But maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am. Like I stated earlier I'm buying a powerbook in a few days. = ) and boy oh boy am I excited.

 

[Gnufsh]

Apple has dev tools out already that make it fairly easy to compile programs that will run on both architectures. This will be important to people on both sides of the issue. It took quite a while for a lot of programs to be ported to OSX, and there are still some around that haven't been. It will help the people who stay as they will continue to receive software upgrades. Finally it will help software vendors who want people to buy their products. If they stop making them for PPC while a substantial portion of mac users are still on the platform (and a substantial portion will be for years), they lose out on a lot of potential customers. The mac market isn't that big to start off with.

I would love to have a mac along side my PC if I had the money (of course, it'd be running Linux, just like my PC).

 

[Schalldampfer]

Well, I feel stupid now. I just found out the fault in the wording of my request. So, here's the request I had in mind: She thinks that Macs are for everyone. How would you disprove that?

 

[Enablingwolf]

market share. Go to any average computer shop. That will dispell Macs are for everyone. As much as I have a soft spot for Apple, they are not for everyone. It is a niche market.

 

[David]

Macs are not for everyone. They boast only a small variety of games. Hence any serious hardcore gamer will not go Mac. They cost a fortune, therefore they are not best for people who want a usable rig on the cheap. Thirdly Macs, from experience at school, make poor servers. The OSX Server at School (granted, this was a few years ago) was an utter pain in the butt. Servers do not need GUIs.

So Macs are not for everyone. Similarly, PCs are not for everyone. Linux is not for everyone. etc etc

market share. Go to any average computer shop. That will dispell Macs are for everyone. As much as I have a soft spot for Apple, they are not for everyone. It is a niche market.

The best product does not always win. The "best" product for Bill might not be the "best" product for Bob.

 

[NsOmNiA91130]

Also, might I add, is that if you're an administrator (a real one) for macs, you should know about the terminal...you know...the BSD terminal...

The school apparantly forgot to lock that down...I sure had fun today

 

[Gnufsh]

Well, I feel stupid now. I just found out the fault in the wording of my request. So, here's the request I had in mind: She thinks that Macs are for everyone. How would you disprove that?

To disprove something, all you need is a counter-example. Macs are not for you (or most gamers), therefore they are not for everybody. Or is she immune to logic/math too?

 

[Schalldampfer]

To disprove something, all you need is a counter-example. Macs are not for you (or most gamers), therefore they are not for everybody. Or is she immune to logic/math too?

Heh. Well, she's not completely immune to logic, but one counter example isn't enough, and we do have to admit that the gamer population is only a rather small subset of the computing world.

 

[whooping_a_panda]

Well the fact that an Apple pc will run about twice as much as an equivilant wintel kind of elimitates the population who dont have extra large pockets from this "everyone" generalization.

If I didn't have the extra cash laying around I sure wouldn't be splurging on something like this. It's kinda like buying a Ferrari, sure it looks nice, and handels well, but my Volkswagen gets me from point A to point B just as well as the Ferrari ever will.

 

[Gnufsh]

Heh. Well, she's not completely immune to logic, but one counter example isn't enough, and we do have to admit that the gamer population is only a rather small subset of the computing world.

Logically, to disprove any statement all you need is one counter-example.

Macs would probably be fine for a large portion of the poplation, but PCs would be as well, and they're cheaper. PCs have a wider variety of software and peripherals available, not to mention that they can currently be faster than a mac (while still being less expensive).

Personally, I think macs are, in large part, for people who prefer looks over functionality. OSX is one of the best looking OSes out therem and it does have some good stuff under the hood, but I find the user interface very annoying, especially some of the better-looking parts of it.

 

[fuzzba11]

If you can show her than anybody can put together their own PC, part by part, she might be interested. I have a friend who sounds like the person you're talking about, and I got her to build her own PC and she loves the thing. She was so psyched about getting a fan controller a few months later that she brought her PC to my place so I could install it. LOL

Building a PC is empowering, get her to believe that having a personalized PC is the best thing evar.

 

[Gnufsh]

If you can show her than anybody can put together their own PC, part by part, she might be interested. I have a friend who sounds like the person you're talking about, and I got her to build her own PC and she loves the thing. She was so psyched about getting a fan controller a few months later that she brought her PC to my place so I could install it. LOL

Building a PC is empowering, get her to believe that having a personalized PC is the best thing evar.

You can do that with a mac as well, it's just rather harder to get ahold of the parts (hello ebay).

 

[Kevin007]

tell her apples are only meant to be eaten