New Haswell build?

[macklin01]

Hi, guys,

My Q6600 setup lasted me through 4 Moore's law timescales (T_Moore = 1.5 yrs), but it seems to have finally given up the ghost. (Fans and drives spin up, but no video. Monitor verified fine. No change in swapping out RAM or vid card. Most likely failure CPU or mobo.) Time to build something new.

I'm looking at getting the i7-4770K + Asus Z87 Pro combo on Newegg for ~$460.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1352791

I plan to use my existing PSU (Corsair HX Series CMPSU-520HX 520W) and graphics card (Asus EN8600-GT) and hard drive(s) for now.

Does this setup look worthwhile? Anybody have experience with this particular motheboard, or have a good alternate to recommend?

Also, would anybody have a suggestion for high-quality DDR3 to go with the board, either 2 x 4 GB or 2 x 16 GB?

Economy and reliability are important for me on memory, but would of course like to take advantage of the speed on my motherboard, as many of computational tasks are memory-bound ... I've had good luck with G.Skill, and not so great luck with Crucial/Ballistix in the past, and I wouldn't mind voting with my dollars against Crucial based on the hell they've caused for me in the past.

I'd like to see this system last me another 3-4 T_Moore's.

Thanks! -- Paul

 

[johan851]

That was a more gracious failure than my Core 2 Quad. When it was done it caught on fire.

Any reason to get that over the i5-4670k? Seems like it would be a bit cheaper even with a really good motherboard, and it'll perform about the same depending on what you're doing.

 

[macklin01]

That was a more gracious failure than my Core 2 Quad. When it was done it caught on fire.

Sounds spectactular! I guess I'm pretty lucky there ...

Any reason to get that over the i5-4670k? Seems like it would be a bit cheaper even with a really good motherboard, and it'll perform about the same depending on what you're doing.

Good question. I've been parallelizing my cancer simulations (shared memory architecture via OpenMP), so they benefit from the extra threads. 24-threaded tests on a machine with 2 hexacore Xeons with hyperthreading have been .... impressive.

 

[macklin01]

OK, order placed.

• CPU: i7-4770K (link)
• mobo: Asus Z87 Pro (link)
• RAM: 2x8 GB Gskill Ares series DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) (link)
• SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB (link)

Should arrive later this week.

 

[johan851]

Nice build!

 

[macklin01]

Thanks! The cpu-mobo combo at Newegg really helps. The memory is also 10% off right now (code: HASMEM10) ...

*edit*
As I think more about it, I'm tempted to try to tap into the built-in GPU with some OpenCL over the top of my C++ simulation code ... hmm ... :-D
*/edit*

 

[N8N8N8]

not to steal your thread, but what about these haswell psu compatibility I have been hearing about ? Im in the process of deciding to keep my rig or do a haswell build like you. I got a corsair 620hx psu. I noticed you had a 520hx and was wondering if all the corsair psu are compatibly with the haswell cpus with the system idle or something like that

 

[Bobnova]

It's nonsense. The offending C states are disabled on desktop chips.
Plus, it was only an issue with old, junk, psus in abnormal situations anyway.

 

[hokiealumnus]

To add a short bit to that - even if it was an issue, you have complete control over C-states in the vast majority of UEFIs, so if you want to take advantage of C-states, just don't enable the lowest one.

Looks like a solid build you've got coming; enjoy it!

 

[MediaMind]

not to steal your thread, but what about these haswell psu compatibility I have been hearing about ? Im in the process of deciding to keep my rig or do a haswell build like you. I got a corsair 620hx psu. I noticed you had a 520hx and was wondering if all the corsair psu are compatibly with the haswell cpus with the system idle or something like that

NO! Keep the rig. Go read the reviews from consumers about their over-hyped 4770k. These things do NOT overclock, they get really hot even with custom looped watercooled setups. I was about to pull the trigger an expensive new rig with the 4770k, than I started reading more and more about it, turns out its crap. Stock vs stock, sure its better. But, seeing as EVERY motherboard manufacturer is offering a really easy overclocking solution with the UEFI BiOS with a preset overclocking or finding stability like ASUS, overclocking is quite popular with even novice users. And being that Haswell does not overclock right, its not worth it. Like I said in my other thread, 10% of haswell owners achieved anything from 4.6GHz or above. Sad. Sandy Bridge owners can hit that on air, and 5GHz with watercooled. Newegg reviews helped a bit, than scouring Toms Hardware and other forums just solidified the fact to not spend the extra money on a new setup. Z77/1155 I stay.

 

[macklin01]

To add a short bit to that - even if it was an issue, you have complete control over C-states in the vast majority of UEFIs, so if you want to take advantage of C-states, just don't enable the lowest one.

Looks like a solid build you've got coming; enjoy it!

Thanks! Should be fun!

NO! Keep the rig. Go read the reviews from consumers about their over-hyped 4770k. These things do NOT overclock, they get really hot even with custom looped watercooled setups. I was about to pull the trigger an expensive new rig with the 4770k, than I started reading more and more about it, turns out its crap. Stock vs stock, sure its better. But, seeing as EVERY motherboard manufacturer is offering a really easy overclocking solution with the UEFI BiOS with a preset overclocking or finding stability like ASUS, overclocking is quite popular with even novice users. And being that Haswell does not overclock right, its not worth it. Like I said in my other thread, 10% of haswell owners achieved anything from 4.6GHz or above. Sad. Sandy Bridge owners can hit that on air, and 5GHz with watercooled. Newegg reviews helped a bit, than scouring Toms Hardware and other forums just solidified the fact to not spend the extra money on a new setup. Z77/1155 I stay.

You might well be right. And if I had a Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge system, I might well be inclined to sit tight with it for this generation, particularly as there is no die shrink and they may well be reaching the limits of 22 nm.

But I've sat out 4 Moore's law cycles (about 6 years) and have a broken system, and it's time to upgrade. Haswell systems cost about about the same (or less!) than Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, with bundle deals etc. and should be more forward compatible. And at the end of the day, I'm too busy to work on a lot of overclocking, so I'd rather buy a high-end part that will carry me a long time and can probably be modestly overclocked when I want/need it.

But you're right, and this needs to be a considered part of the equation for many who are looking to buy right now. I might well have even stuck with my Q6600 for another Moore's law cycle if it hadn't died on me ...

 

[WrkBoot]

I'm also wanting to buy Haswell.My current rig is handling the games i'm playing now but...... I haven't read anything really good about Haswell. I've been saving and wanting to spend about 1500,I can't see sinking that into a rig that MIGHT not OC well,just my 2cents

 

[macklin01]

If you don't have to and don't need any specific features of Haswell, I'd wait.

*edit*
Or consider: is the goal of your system to overclock or to accomplish specific tasks?

For me, regardless of whether it overclocks well, it will be significantly faster at my main tasks than my previous (broken) system. Overclocking is icing on the cake for me, but not the main goal. (But overclocking-driven parts will hopefully be higher quality and last me longer!)
*/edit*

 

[MediaMind]

Thanks! Should be fun!



You might well be right. And if I had a Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge system, I might well be inclined to sit tight with it for this generation, particularly as there is no die shrink and they may well be reaching the limits of 22 nm.

But I've sat out 4 Moore's law cycles (about 6 years) and have a broken system, and it's time to upgrade. Haswell systems cost about about the same (or less!) than Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, with bundle deals etc. and should be more forward compatible. And at the end of the day, I'm too busy to work on a lot of overclocking, so I'd rather buy a high-end part that will carry me a long time and can probably be modestly overclocked when I want/need it.

But you're right, and this needs to be a considered part of the equation for many who are looking to buy right now. I might well have even stuck with my Q6600 for another Moore's law cycle if it hadn't died on me ...

Well, up to you. Stock vs stock, its a 5% bump in performance over the Ivy and 5-10% over Sandy Bridge. All costs for the SB and IB CPU, motherboards and what not have declined due to the release of Haswell. Newegg has the 3770K on sale for 319.99 vs 349.99 for 4770K. I think the Ivy overclock will definitely be 10% faster than the 4770k, since Haswell is having a hard time overclocking.

 

[macklin01]

Thanks, and I do appreciate both your point and your concern.

As for price, I priced out a reasonably comparable Ivy Bridge mobo + CPU, and the price was comparable. ($100 off the bundle) You've only got a $30 difference between the IB and Haswell parts, which is less than the bundle savings. (I didn't see any particularly great IB bundlings on Newegg.) I bought the same DDR3 I would probably have bought on an IB system.

I'd imagine that Haswell and IB will probably reach similar caps, being the same 22 nm process size. Clock for clock, most benchmarks I've seen put Haswell around 5% above IB, as you point out. So even if IB overclocks by a higher percentage, the performance will likely be comparable.

Thirdly, I'm honestly not in it so much for getting the maximum overclock as getting fast quality hardware that will last me some time. If I get to the same performance as an overclocked IB at stock or 5%, so be it. I have other things to worry about.

Also, I'll admit I'm intrigued by the improved integrated GPU. Not for actually gaming with it or running a display, but for OpenCL on a GPU that has direct access to system memory. In real-world scientific computing with non-trivial complexity, communication with system memory is what often kills GPU computing on standalone cards.

I'm very tempted to try to mash that up with OpenMP on the main CPU cores to see what it can do on some science work ... (where, by the way, stability matters more than overclocking).

So thanks for your points. I can see where they would be very important considerations for many (or even most!), but they aren't as particularly important in my case. In fact, I just suggested that a different user above wait it above. Different considerations, different computing goals.

Maybe I should have gone with the non-K part in this case, but hey, toying with the system does sound fun down the road.

 

[Mjolnir]

We have to remember guys. Ultimately it's about the stock performance. Anything we gain as an overclock should be considered a bonus. Icing on the cake as mentioned. Not everyone is after a maximum overclock. I'm going from a 2500k to a 4770k but dropping from 4.5ghz to maybe 4ghz tops. Which will probably amount to the same gaming performance in general, but I'm doing it because I can and because I'm moving into an itx build. And want the fastest I can get in that build, with overclocking as a very minor factor in mind.

 

[macklin01]

At the end of the day, we all have different use goals, which is worth keeping in mind. But the discussion is worth having!

 

[Ajay57]

Well 10% increase is a good amount in anybody's books from SB to Haswell, but it all hangs on what you are looking for! AJ.

1, http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=836

2, http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...e-g1sniper-5-motherboard-cpu-performance.html

These 2 posts give a very interesting read to those who wish to learn!!

Edit: I would very much read all of the second post as its more to do with Haswell over other platforms!!

 

[MediaMind]

We have to remember guys. Ultimately it's about the stock performance. Anything we gain as an overclock should be considered a bonus. Icing on the cake as mentioned. Not everyone is after a maximum overclock. I'm going from a 2500k to a 4770k but dropping from 4.5ghz to maybe 4ghz tops. Which will probably amount to the same gaming performance in general, but I'm doing it because I can and because I'm moving into an itx build. And want the fastest I can get in that build, with overclocking as a very minor factor in mind.

Yeah this is true. And stock for stock performance Haswell has Ivy and Sandy beat. And when it was first released, Haswell was only $20 more than Ivy.