New to watercooling, advice wanted.

[Mystriss]

So I've got about six months to upgrade my current gaming rig before my next game comes out. Problem is, I've already hit the limits of what air cooling can handle with my custom rig. See, I'm a bit of a problem child, I insist on a small case, then proceed to stuff it with massively oversized components... Its a melt-down waiting to happen, and I know it, yet still continue on.

*cough* So water cooling because I no longer have a choice... I have only a basic gist of what I'm doing and honestly I'd pay someone to do this if there WAS anyone up here in Alaska I'd trust to do it. So I'm on my own here, lemme start with what I'm running atm and the problems, then you can all laugh at me for what I'm planning to upgrade to hmm?

Current Rig Pic So yea; Silverstone HTCP Case, Silverstone Strider 1200 PS, Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 Rev2 MB, AMD Phenom II x6, HD6950 GPU, and 4 8gb low profile Ballistic dimms. I had a Coolermaster V6GT but I sent that to a friend who was worse off in the heat department than I was and picked up this Arctic 64pro rev2 whatever cpu cooler to use while I upgrade. No game atm so I'm running stock and heat is only a minor issue idle: Idle Temps Though there's no doubt my GPU gets danger zone hot: Ouch (I stopped the test cause 91c ain't healthy)

Anyway as you can see I'm already hitting the limits as it is, and then ... stoopid upgrades... I'm getting a FX-8350 easy enough yea? Uhm then well... I'd like to pick up a couple Devil 13 HD7990's *cough* Yes, in an HTPC case, I know, just humor me... I've got no space in the case obviously so I'm looking for an external radiator, and it needs to be able to handle the heat I'm going to be putting out cause those HD's run hot to begin with. I've been eyeballing the Koolance ERM-3K3UC Radiator which can supposedly handle the estimated 1000w from my GPU's and what 200w from my CPU, but I don't know the company at all. So a few questions:

I'm thinking to externally mount the rad under my desk, possible with this system? Can the pump handle it?

Is that 'kit' a good choice or is there a better one for a water cool noob like myself? OR am I better off building from scratch?​

The CPU block I was looking at is MIPS ICEFORCE HF I don't get much choice on the GPU block, EK seems to have the only one out there for the Devil.

Also, I was thinking to go with 3/8IDx1/2OD tubing, though I admit mostly cause it was in the middle of the two most common sizes - I need a bit of flexibility given the smaller case, so not too thick, but I need water flow too...


I'm not against running two separate radiator/pump systems (one for the GPUs and one for the CPU, or maybe a bigger one for one GPU and the CPU and a smaller for the second GPU, etc) but I'm not sure if that's a benefit or not.

I'm open to any options that would make this work, I love my HTPC case. I do know the GTX 690s and Titan's are sweet and perhaps a bit more suited to my case situation, but the second GPU is going to be 'later' in the upgrade process and I need the extra display ports on the Radeon's.

So that's the mess I'm in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Conumdrum]

Read the last entry, from Koolance. That 1000 watts is a joke, panned across the WC community.

http://forums.koolance.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1643

And start with the stickies up top, you need to learn about watercooling first.

 

[Mystriss]

Not exactly a joke, more of an outdated method of estimation. Though I will note you misread what I typed, which was that my GPU's would use around 1k watts, and my cpu around 200 watts. The Koolance specs actually put that radiator at around 2000w/3lpm or 2400w/7lpm. Either way nothing else I've found comes even close to what I 'estimate' to need.

The problem with trying to calculate up what I need for a radiator in more precise terms than the "wattage estimate" is that I can't find 'heat' numbers for the components - the FX-8350 or Devil 13. All I find is people saying what 'they' have and where their 'temps' sit with it. Like so-n-so says they can run their FX-8350 OC at 4.8MHz steady with a 120x3 rad. And another person says they've got a 120x3 rad on their Devil 13 running around 71c under load.

I didn't really use the watt thing so much though, in figuring up 'my' radiator size I actually figured a 120x3 for each piece - 2xGPU, 1xCPU = 120x9, which Koolance seems to have the only one. But as I mentioned I'm not sure the pump can handle it, especially since I want to mount the rad under my desk (which means pushing the water up, and a bit longer distance, figure an extra foot maybe)

So the question was am I better off getting each component a separate 120x3s (or even 120x4's cause I want quiet) so the pumps can handle going up through the desk?

Another question is are the kits worth it and more so regarding the companies who make them. I just don't know anything about their reputation or reliability because I've only dealt with air cooling. I'll be right pissed if some $2k water cooling kit fries my system because of shoddy workmanship.

I did read the stickies, that's where I got my gist of how it all works. It also brought up questions though, which is why I posted to ask them.

 

[Knufire]

FX 8350 can get up to 200W or so when heavily OCed. Say 220W.

7990 = dual 7970s = 2x230W = 460W stock. All AMD cards have a +20% limiter on them, so add another 100W or so for OCing. I'd estimate your loop at 780w or so, and that's a very safe estimate.

 

[Conumdrum]

The Koolance is rated at 20-30C Dt temps. Your stuff will fry. 10C or less is what you need to shoot for.

See this sticky yet?

http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

 

[Mystriss]

Knufire, you forgot a Devil in that calculation - two devil 13's, 4 7970s so 1340W then?

Conumdrum, I did read your sticky on Dt, however the link is broken (skinneelab's site is down/gone?) and nothing on that chart shown is anywhere close to what I need as far as heat load. So I spent at least 5 hours trying to do the math calculations to estimate thermodynamic heat transfer stuff. I think I messed up somewhere in the math though cause I came out with an estimated Dt of 22C regardless of the rad size, pump GPM, and fan CFU, etc. Of course if that were true, then NOONE would be able to cool anything with a radiator in a typical house with ambient temps around 65-75F. So basically what I've learned is that apparently I am not a physicist >.<

 

[manu2b]

Well... I don't believe moving from a x6 to a 8350 is so much of an upgrade actually:
a [email protected] roughly equals a [email protected] in global computing power, so IPC wise, you'll need a 8350 to [email protected]/4.8GHz to equal the Phenom per core perf...

Moving to an intel platform will be though.

Your 990FX MoBo and the Thuban could sell for a good $200.

You add $100 and you build a nice 4670k+Asrock extreme4 z87 platform.

My two cents...

Edit: a 8350, even taken to 5GHz (which is far from certain) will be a huge bottleneck with 4 7970's/2 7990's.

 

[Conumdrum]

Ohh yea, Skinne has poofed. I'll need to add a picture I have saved to that then.

Generally, a 20 FPI rad is good for no more than 400 watts with 2000 RPM good quality fans. You want effective silence? 300 watts max. Any more heat that that your DT gets high and if your overclocking with a Haswell it has temps isues already. If I remember right, your looking at 800 watts heat load? I'd get a Mora rad, 120x9 put 9 AP-15 fans on a fan controller for 900 RPM and your temps would be very good. Of course you'll need to mount the rad on a stand. It's not that common, but works very well for something like your setup.

 

[Mystriss]

Manu2b, the Phenom II x6 I have is stock 3.2 and I can't OC it at all cause of the HTPC case >.< Though I was thinking to run the FX-8350x8 at 4.6 or 4.7 as that's reported to be comfortably stable. While I do enjoy Intel's stock, I prefer the AMDs in my systems


Conumdrum, it's 1340w total; two devil 13s (4 GPUs) at 560w each card and the CPU at 220w. A 9x120 rad is what I was eyeballing, just in kit format. I take it the MORA's are better? I found this - MO-RA3 360 Pro - which can actually do a push pull fan setup (18x120) and yes quiet is very important to me. I'm wanting to mount the radiator under my desk. (Its around 10F cooler down there)

However this leaves me asking what pump can handle this setup? Not only pumping 'up' from under the desk, but I'm going to have a splitter for 3 loops (one for each dual GPU card and one for the CPU) so I'll lose some of my pump power, yea? What GPM rating should I be looking for on a pump?

 

[Conumdrum]

First and foremost. A HTPC case? Where the heck is the airflow? In a HTPC case? With a massive 120x9 radiator in tow? As Beeman said on ESPN years years ago, "Come On Man".

What are you thinking?

Finally, you mention splitting one pump for 3 different loops.

Your totally lost and have no clue about watercooling. I give up. And no reason to fix the Dt link for you, cuz' you have no idea.

Lost cause. Your building a crazy rig and have never watercooled? You're a dreamer and I wish you the best. I don't do well with fools.

Signing off.

 

[Mystriss]

I said all this in the beginning if ya had bothered to read before throwing stickies at me. No need to be rude. I'll find somewhere else to ask what I need to do to make it work. Thanks.

 

[myndlessdayz]

Using a splitter will cause flow problems as water will always go the way of least resistance, hence, you'll have one loop do alright while the other 2 will suffer for it.

The stickies were mentioned in the beginning as a start to understand what you're getting yourself into and to answer pretty much the same questions that are asked numerous times a day.

 

[Conumdrum]

Sorry. You picking the Koolance rad at the start meant you didn't find the right places to read first. And splitting flow is a bad idea, and mentioned in tons of posts and in the stickies, somewhere.

We can't cover all the bases. Some people get it right, some don't. Your one of the folks who didn't big time from the start and that can be corrected on this site, we got very experianced watercoolers and will help you.

Your putting 1000 watts of heat in a box meant for 500 watts. No matter, your making a monster and want to shoebox it into a thimble. You didn't specify which case, oops.

And you want a AMD processor when the Intel line is superior? And I'm not a fanboy, I'm smarter than that.

You do what you want, but your early research was total typical clicky click buy buy. We see it all the time.

Take our advise, you need to TOTALLY start over and read read read.

Helpful old link I wrote long ago, but it has worked for many.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6489396&postcount=

Look at the amount of thanks on the bottom eh?

 

[Conumdrum]

Knufire, you forgot a Devil in that calculation - two devil 13's, 4 7970s so 1340W then?

Conumdrum, I did read your sticky on Dt, however the link is broken (skinneelab's site is down/gone?) and nothing on that chart shown is anywhere close to what I need as far as heat load. So I spent at least 5 hours trying to do the math calculations to estimate thermodynamic heat transfer stuff. I think I messed up somewhere in the math though cause I came out with an estimated Dt of 22C regardless of the rad size, pump GPM, and fan CFU, etc. Of course if that were true, then NOONE would be able to cool anything with a radiator in a typical house with ambient temps around 65-75F. So basically what I've learned is that apparently I am not a physicist >.<

Then you do some simple math. It's easy. The lines are not curved. Add wattage, increase cooling. Simple enough.

Double the cooling, meaning buying another rad etc.

I'm no physics guy either. But you don't just look at it and move on, it's a HOBBY you work it out. Time is nothing for a hobby. There is no end game for watercooling.