New Watercooling Rig. Comments, Suggestions Needed.

[Schwag]

Hey all, Im new to the forums but I've been up for about 12 hours straight researching what to put into my new gaming rig and this seemed like an excellent place to ask for a little advice. I'm not entirely new to watercooling but I'm no pro by any means so bare with me.

My current setup is an aging (oh alright, ancient) Abit IC7-MAX3 mobo, Pentium 4 [email protected], GeForce 6800GT, 2x WD Raptor 74Gig HDD, and 2 Gigs of Kingston HyperX DDR400 memory all in a Koolance PC2-650 case. Watercooling only the CPU and GPU i've had reliable temps of about 26C-35C at idle and load, respectively.

If you have read the above and are tearing up, opening your wallets and are about to donate money to the "Schwag Relief Fund" then I can't blame you. The setup is about 5 years old and has been quite good to me thus far. Its time for an upgrade however and this time around I'd like to push the envelope of "budget" performance like this rig did half a century ago. As well, i would like to take a crack at building my own water cooling loop. I like to assemble my computers by hand and creating my own water cooling system seems like an interesting challenge. Plus, Koolance systems look like crap anymore, and are way too expensive.

So here's the setup in mind, sorry for the long back story. Any comments or advice would be much appreciated.

Hardware for the new computer is as follows:
Motherboard: ASUS Striker II Extreme
CPU: Intel Core2Duo E8500 @3.16GHz
Memory: Kinston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz
HDD: 2xWD Raptor 74Gig in Raid0
GPU: PNY GeForce 9800GTX+ (would like to upgrade to SLI in the future)

Water cooling hardware:
Case: Silverstone Temjin TJ-10 - I like the way this looks, and the ability to add a 102.2 radiator with only a $12 bracket seems very appealing. I dont like the look of a radiator bolted on to the back of a case.

Radiator: HWLabs Black Ice Stealth 240 - Going with this one due to the radiators position in the Temjin TJ-10. Thin, sleek design seems like it will be out of the way of the motherboard even with 2x120mm fans mounted to the bottom of it, yet still provide decent heat dissipation.

Reservoir: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO - Not too large, not too small. Mounting brackets = yay.

Pump: Swiftech MCP350 - Im not well versed in pumps, this one seems nice and small with a decent flow rate.

CPU Block: Danger Den MC-TDX - Heard good things about danger den, like the looks, construction looks solid.

GPU Block: Danger Den? - Not quite sure what i need here. On the 6800GT im simply cooling the GPU itself, cooler is not a full cover. New card is a 9800GTX+ and im not sure if I need full cover or not. Recommendations?

Chipset Block: Asus Striker II Extreme comes factory fitted with a Fusion waterblock that is connected to the northbridge and is said to cool the northbridge, southbridge, and mosfets. Good enough or go aftermarket?

I plan on running 3/8 tubing throughout the system and having the water from the radiator hit the CPU first then split into two lines to cool the GPU and Northbridge simultaneously before converging again into one line to run through the resevoir, then the pump, and back into the radiator.

There it all is, sorry about the giant wall of text. Any input you could provide would be excellent. I would like to know how this watercooling setup would stack up compared to other DIY setups or pre-made kits. How future proof do you think the setup would be? Will the heat dissipation meet my current needs? Will it meet my future needs (possible SLI config)? Thanks!!

 

[muddocktor]

to the forums, Schwag.

Since you have had a prebuilt loop before, I'm glad to see you venturing out to do your own loop this time. As for your choices:

CPU block - I have an MC-TDX and frankly, it's not in the same class as the Swiftech GTZ or either of the D-Tek Fuzion models (I also have a GTZ and Fuzion V1). The MC-TDX is the least restrictive of them all but also gives me poorer performance too. All 3 are well built blocks though.

pump - I would go with the MCP355 over the MCP350, especially since they are basically the same price. They are the exact same pump except the motor on the MCP350 doesn't spin as fast as the MCP355 motor. Since you want to stay with 3/8 tubing, you don't need to get an aftermarket top for either of those, but an XSPC Res top will give you better flow rates and pressures and is also a reservoir, which means you can delete the micro res from your build. And with the res top you can later upgrade to 1/2 tubing if you want or need to in the future with a simple change of the barbs.

Radiator - Here lies the weakness of your proposed loop, IMO. And a great part of this is due to the case you want to use not being able to mount enough radiator for cooling. I just don't think a 120.2 radiator will let you overclock a whole lot when cooling both a cpu and gpu. And the BI Stealth wouldn't be my choice in a 120.2 rad either. If you stay with the TJ10 and use a 120.2 rad, I would suggest a Thermochill PA120.2 or the Feser X-Changer 240 as both of them will give better performance than the BI stealth and work well with lower to mid-cfm fans. And this brings me to the next thing I want you to look at, which is an alternate case.

case - Since you are willing to pay for a premium case (TJ10), I would suggest you look at a Mountain Mods Pinnacle 24 too. It is a tower case like the TJ10, but is extremely customizable and is great for water cooling; much better than the TJ10 IMO. It will cost a little more but with it you can mount a 120.4 Feser in it or a couple of 120.3's or whatever suits your fancy. And in the future you go SLI and find your present setup doesn't adequately cool, it is very easy to add another rad to the loop with this case. I have the U2-UFO model they sell and the quality of the case is outstanding.

Chipset block - I would try the stock block first and see how it does.

GPU block - I'm using the Swiftech MCW60-R on my 8800GTS (G92) and it does an outstanding job keeping it cool. Load temps on the vid card don't go over 40 C even when running Furmark's stability test. It also a fairly low restriction block too. I use the Swiftech MC8800 SMC cooling Kit for the ram and vrm's on my card. The kit was made for the G80, but worked just fine on my G92 and I had a few sinks left over too.

Another thing: I wouldn't split the flow off into 2 parallel streams for your cooling. Balancing the flow is extremely hard to do and the side with the least restriction will get most of the flow, starving the other side of the split.

 

[Schwag]

Thanks for the hasty reply Mudd!! I took a little more time to research and I have most definately decided to go Swiftech for both the CPU and GPU water blocks as well as the MCP355 pump. I like that I don't have to spend 150+ dollars on what is basically a huge chunk of copper covering my vid cards memory chips. The setup you have on your card closely resembles what I'm running on my 6800 at the moment and has worked wonders for me so far.

Couple of questions though. Since the 9800GTX is basically an 8800 in disguise, the cooler you mentioned will work for it as well? Seems they don't list the 9800 on their page since the two cards are so similar.

Second, I had a look at the case you mentioned and think I'll have to stick with the TJ-10 due to aesthetics. Seems unreasonable but I like my cases to look quite sharp and don't find the Pinnacle all that attractive. Again, after further research i've seen several successful installations of the Thermochill PA120.2 inside the TJ-10 and it seems to work out alright. You mentioned them working with mid-to-low CFM fans, however I don't at all mind noisy computers (Hell i've got 6x80mm in mine atm). If the PA120.2 was used with 70+CFM rated fans would the cooling be adequate to suit my needs? Or does the 120.2 just not quite cut the cake?

I was hoping to install 2x70CFM fans to the radiator and then a single or perhaps dual 120 to cool the ambient air. Hopefully ending up with a system that is less noisy than my current setup.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Ric2L]

There is a Bracket on the top of the TJ-09/TJ-10 cases that is a support for the motherboard tray. This bracket is only 60mm from the top vents of case.

There is no way you can put a thermochill rad (which is 59mm thick) with any kind of 120mm fan between that bracket and the top of the case, you would have to remove the bracket entirely, no longer having a corner brace for the motherboard tray.

The thickest rad you could use is 35-36mm thick, 36 will be very very close with fans installed on rad.

I have a TJ09 with a Black Ice Stealth GT 360 installed in the top of mine, would love to have Thermochill, but it just wont fit.

 

[Schwag]

Strange, well the one thread i read about a guy mounting the 120.2 had modified the case quite a bit.

http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index....did=1345377&pagenumber=0&msgcount=0&subpage=1

Im not really one for modifying a 300 dollar case aside from some small dremel work. I notice you said you mounted a 120.3 rad in your TJ09, did you create your own mounting brackets or did you use the RadSupport09 bracket from Silverstone? Also, since i'll be cooling the cpu, gpu, and chipsets will a Black Ice Stealth 360 provide the cooling power needed for those 3 components? How would the 360 compare with the Thermochill 120.2?

I've already decided to nix the idea of adding in a second GPU for SLI for the time being, if additional cooling is needed I can always add a 120.1 to the exhaust fan mounting outside the case.

Appreciate all the input guys

 

[Ric2L]

Heres som pics of what I'm talking about:





The bracket I'm talking about is just above the 8 pin motherboard power connector. With my rad installed w/fans there is only 6mm between it and the fans. There is absolutely no way to put a Thermochill in there without cutting that brace out (its rivited in).

I used the Silverstone Rad Supports (with some slight mods to them) to put my B. Ice rad in.

In the link you provided, he cut the brace out, (had to). Also he's using the same mobo as I am.


The Stealth will cool a CPU and single GPU, but I wouldent go any more than that.

I believe that a Swiftech QP rad will fit, its only 34mm thick, it will be close but I believe it will work. I really wish I had bought it instead of the stealth personally.

Hope this helps.

 

[Schwag]

Ahhh that helps clear things up immensely. I would rather not cut out that mobo support bracket then, i hate compromising the integrity of such a nice case. Any special reason you would have rather gone with the Swiftech? Also, what mods did you have to perform to the Rad Support brackets to fit a 120.3?

Sorry for all the questions, guess one can never learn too much!

 

[Ric2L]

Well, from what I've learned since building my rig (it was my first attempt), and am still learning and screwing up. The Swiftech is suppose to perform better than the stealth, and it is quieter. I believe the Black Ice extereme version is suppose to perform even better than the swifty but you must use high speed fans which are really loud. (not my thing). Hopefully someone else can let us know for sure.

As far as the rad supports from Silverston go, its pretty simple, you just have to drill 4 new holes to get the proper spacing to mount a 360 rad back far enough to get maximum air flow from the top vent. There is about 2 inches of the rad on the end with the barbs that gets no air or very little with it back as far as I could get it, because the top vent is just to short for a 360, and its to wide to put a normal rad grill in its place.

It does work pretty good though, my temps never go over 52c running prime and idle around 30c. Thats with a Q6600 at 3.6 GHz. I currently have only the CPU in the loop, will be adding a 4870 as soon as its gets here, hopefully tues. or wed. of next week. If you havent bought by then, I can hopefully let you know what the temps are with both CPU & GPU around Thur., if everything goes good with the install.

 

[muddocktor]

Schwag, If you go to the Swiftech website and look under the MCW60-R heading they have many pictures of the gpu block installed on various different vid cards. And one of the pictures specifically mentions the 9800GTX under the picture of it mounted on it. Since as far as I know the 9800GTX+ is just a die shrink of the gpu and nothing else changed, the block should mount just fine on it.

Since you are sticking with the TJ10, you might want to wait for Ric2L to add his vid card to the loop to see what his temps do. And his idea about the Swiftech rad is a good one if it will fit in your case, as well as using a 120.3 rad instead of a 120.2 since it gives you more cooling area. If I were home I could measure my MCW320-QP, but unfortunately I'm on a drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico right now and won't be in until another 1 1/2 weeks. But someone here could probably measure the thickness of their MCW220-QP or MCW320-QP to make sure the thickness dimensions Swiftech lists are accurate. The Swiftech rad should be a better choice than the BI stealth if it's narrow enough to fit your case.

The reason I mention going with a 120.3 rad is because of the amount of heat dump the vid card will add to your loop. A 120.2 rad should handle a pcu only loop with no problems, but that 9800GTX+ will more than double the heat dump into the loop and while I think a 120.2 rad will handle the added heat load I don't think the temps would be what I would call optimal. A 120.3 rad should give you added cooling capacity if you can shoehorn it into your case.

 

[Schwag]

Thanks once again mudd! I've got my loop pretty well planned out now, just a matter of time before i can get money for the parts. I splurged on the computing hardware over christmas and just recently decided that a whole new case/wc loop/etc would be the best course of action.

Appreciate all the timely answers and good advice, i'll let you all know how it works out!

 

[muddocktor]

We'll be wanting pics too, don't forget that!

When you are ready, start you a build log thread on the project.