OC A8-3870k - CPU better but graphics perf worse after OC - any ideas?

[sabrefv]

Left at stock and ran benchmarks cinebench cpu and open gl, 3dmark11, 3dmark vantage, unigine heaven.
I then Oclocked to 3.4GHz (left voltage at stock..only upped the multiplier to 34x..left FSB as 100) and ran benchmarks (before benching i ran ran Prime95 for 1 hour and no issues)
here are the before and after benchmarks
-Cinebench CPU - from 3.47 to 3.74..better
-Cinebench Open GL - from 21.1FPS to 16.02FPS..worse
-3dMark11 - from 3204 to 2447 (graphics from 2627 to 1954 and CPU from 9397 to 10015)..graphics worse and CPU better
-3dmark Vantage - from 905 to 755
-Unigine Heaven - from 15.1 FPS to 12.1 FPS
As you can see all CPU scores increased and all graphics went down
i raised voltage Core from 1.412 to 1.425 and NB from 1.15 to 1.1625 and re-ran Cinebench CPU and GL
cinebench CPU from 3.74 to 3.79..voltage increase further increased CPU perf
cinebench GL from 16.02 to 15.99..voltage increase further decreased graphics
here are the system specs
- CPU: AMD a8-3870k
- Mobo:Asrock A75M-HVS
- RAM: Corsair 8 GB Vengeance Blue Low Profile 1600mhz PC3-12800 240-pin Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit 8 Dual Channel Kit - CML8GX3M2A1600C9B
- Cooler: Hyper 212+ with extra fan (Push pull)
- Power Supply: ePOWER EP-500NE-XV 500W ATX12V v2.2 / ESP12V v2.91
- no graphics card installed yet a8-3870k inbuilt GPU radeom hd 6550D
- Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER-U3 Black Gaming ATX Mid
- SSD: Crucial M4 64Gb C: drive (ACHI)
- HDD:Hitachi HUA721010KLA330 1TB E: drive
- Optical: Samsung SATA Model SH-222BB/BEBE

here are some screen shots which I'm attaching from monitoring programs (status after OC to 3.4Ghz and voltage increase)

ANY IDEAS ANyONE?

 

[sabrefv]

1. I clocked back the multiplier to 32x and redid Cinebench OpenGL test. The results were still bad (20.69 FPS at 3.2Ghz vs 21.11 FPS at 3.0Ghz stock). Disheartening...there is a clear correlation where GPU graphics perfromance decreases at a linear rate as you increase your multiplier.
2. I went into BIOS and decided to look at RAM. i would have thought that if you leave it on auto settings that it will automatically apply the rated RAM clock speed and timings.....WRONG....so I set the RAM clock speed manually to 1600 and the timings manually to stock 9-9-9-24...........WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!

I left OC at 32X (3.2GH with stock FSB at 100)
Cinebench Open GL JUMPED to 29.29 from 21.11 (at auto settings 3.0ghz and auto Ram settings) and Cinebench CPU went to 3.76 from 3.47 (at auto settings 3.0Ghz and auto RAm settings.

I'm tinkering more and let you know. hopefully this might be helpful for someone else.

 

[sabrefv]

After the manual RAM settings in BIOS as described above things keep getting better.
I now have the CPU multiplier set at 34x and FSB at 103 for 3.5Ghz. i ran the banchmarks again and have the following results against stock settings:
-Cinebench CPU - from 3.47 to 4.04..better
-Cinebench Open GL - from 21.1 FPS to 30.28 FPS..better
-3dMark Vantage - from 3204 to 4447 (graphics from 2447 to 3692 and CPU from 9397 to 11515)..graphics and CPU better
-3dmark11 - from 905 to 1134..better
-Unigine Heaven - from 15.1 FPS to 19.5 FPS..better

Moral to this story is if you want to overclock..get good RAM and at a minimum clock it to manufacturer specs..
i only spent $54.99 on this RAm and so far it's well worth it..I highly recommend it.
Corsair 8 GB Vengeance Blue Low Profile 1600mhz PC3-12800 240-pin Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit 8 Dual Channel Kit - CML8GX3M2A1600C9B...thre is an identical model in black (without the B on the end of the model number).

The low profile allows you to install it in a micro ATX MB and still be able to mount the cooler fan without interfering with the RAM. the RAM heat sink comes in the form of spreaders so they dont add to the height.

I seem to have answered my question but if any of the experts have any thoughts I would still appreciate comments.

 

[RGone]

Thank you for keeping us posted. WE honestly do not see very many APU setups here in the CPU forum section. You probably make only the 15th or maybe as high as the 20th in the last year that I can remember. Why? Don't know. They just must mostly go somewhere else.

Again thank you for posting your results to date. RGone...ster.

 

[sabrefv]

Thanks I agree with few posts on the APUs. It's hard to find info. Sometimes I'm googling for hours. I have a bit of a fascination for these. I have read enough to see that the Phenom IIs, 8 core bulldozers, and most of the hyper threading intels can easily beat these but the value of these APUs, I think, is amazing.
I picked up the a8-3870k on ebay new for $75, the RAM on Amazon for $54.99, the case was excellent value at $39.99 (three 120mm fans and the case just a fits a hyper 212+ which i got for $19.99), DVD burner for $13.99, Radeon Hd 6670 DDR5 for $79 and a 1 TB for $50. With dual graphics enabled after i install the GFX card) i have an entry level system that should be able to play some games at least at minimum settings. You have to admit that's not bad. I'm not a gamer but there are lots of students and others who are can rarely afford >$700 rigs and i think the 4 Cores on these do the normal stuff ok plus start getting you into the low levels of gaming (with dual graphics)....at least thats what i want to prove with this rig and these benchmarks I'm running..and that has to be important to a some people. I'm turning into a bit of an AMD APU fan boy (ok so I'm cheap but hey what's wrong with that).

 

[RGone]

Inexpensive and fully functional is not cheap in the way a lot of people call something cheap by any means. I keep good threads where I can find them. If yours turns out to be a real g00die, I will certainly keep its' link. Thanks again.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

Good post sabre...this is probably the 3rd APU OC'ing thread I've come across perusing the forums. I don't know why. The APU's are great chips. I love the fact that I can actually game decently on my laptop. Good info.

 

[Lordred]

APU's are sort of a grey area when it comes to overclocking.

The problem is you need to feed both the iGPU and the CPU at the same time when you attempt to overclock, as it stands the default speed on your A8-3870K will be all you will ever need to feed the iGPU, but what you can do is OC that little iGPU, two of the biggest increases in performance will come from running the system memory @ 1866, and increasing the clock speed of the iGPU from 600 to north of 700.

The following is the exact difference it makes on my A8-3850.
Low run is 600mhz igpu / 1333 system memory 9-9-9
High run is 675mhz igpu / 1866 system memory 10-10-10
http://3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/3932263/3dm11/3932183



Second, the Asrock A75M-HVS has a non heatsinked 3+1 VRM setup, putting a heatsink on the VRM's will help quiet a bit. I have a GA-A75M-UD2H which has a 4+1 vrm and is heatsinked out the box.


for now I would bring the CPU side back down and focus on squeezing every bit of performance out of the igpu side.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

Welcome Lordred....nice to see you made it over here from OCN.

 

[Lordred]

/waves It was getting quite hostile over there.

 

[Frakk]

APU's are sort of a grey area when it comes to overclocking.

The problem is you need to feed both the iGPU and the CPU at the same time when you attempt to overclock, as it stands the default speed on your A8-3870K will be all you will ever need to feed the iGPU, but what you can do is OC that little iGPU, two of the biggest increases in performance will come from running the system memory @ 1866, and increasing the clock speed of the iGPU from 600 to north of 700.

The following is the exact difference it makes on my A8-3850.
Low run is 600mhz igpu / 1333 system memory 9-9-9
High run is 675mhz igpu / 1866 system memory 10-10-10
http://3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/3932263/3dm11/3932183



Second, the Asrock A75M-HVS has a non heatsinked 3+1 VRM setup, putting a heatsink on the VRM's will help quiet a bit. I have a GA-A75M-UD2H which has a 4+1 vrm and is heatsinked out the box.


for now I would bring the CPU side back down and focus on squeezing every bit of performance out of the igpu side.

Thats a nice 15 / 20% boost from a few tweaks here and there. Its good to see those APU's working well.

 

[sabrefv]

Lodred.
Thanks so much for this info. I have been out al day and only just saw this. I'll work on this tomorrow and let you know how i go.
Thanks a bunch

 

[sabrefv]

Update on testing as of 8-7-12
Moral of the story (confirming Lordred's advice).....if you want to overclock AMD APUs focus more on RAM and iGPU rather than brute CPU OCing..as you can see results from 32x to 34x not much difference. When I went from 34x CPU at 1600ghz RAM and 600MHz iGPU to 1866Ghz RAM and 686Mhz iGPU this was the biggest jump.

History of the effort
Based on Lordred's advice I OCed RAM to 1866....ran memtest86 and Prime95 for an hour and it was stable. I then focused on OCing the iGPU. I went from 600 to 686 then 757Mhz and 800MHz. Highest stable frequency I could get was 757MHz. I did get it to 800MHz and it passed memtest 86 for 45 mins and Prime95 for 2 hours without errors. It also worked for 3dmark11, 3dMark Vantage and Cinebench but would constantly fail on the very last screen of Unigine Heaven (black screen, computer working but monitor lost sync and I would have to hard boot to get the monitor image to display again). I never worked this out but obviously has something to do with the OC because it doesnt happen at lower iGPU frequencies. I messed with Voltages to get Unigine to work but then decided to just go back to 757Mhz as it was rock solid stable. Although I couldn't get anywhere near Lordred's marks the OCing iGPU and RAM gave me considerable improved performance over my previous OC efforts.

My highest stable multiplier was 34x up to that point so worked back from there.

Multiplier 34x (3.4Ghz)-iGPU 600Mhz-RAM 1600Ghmz..using this as baseline
3dMark11 - 755
3dMark Vantage - 2447
Cinebench CPU – 3.74
Cinebench OpenGL – 16.02 FPS
Unigine Heaven – 12.2 FPS
Next step was to OC Ram to 1866GHZ (I went from 1600 to 1866 in one jump and tested for stability) and then I raised clock to 686MHz – even I couldn't believe the jump here..watch these comparative benches...(I had overclocked A8-3870k on a separate board in another machine to 800Mhz so wasnt too worried about jumping from 600Mhz to 686Mhz in one go).

Multiplier 34x (3.4Ghz)-iGPU 686Mhz-RAM 1866Ghz3dMark11 - 1235
3dMark Vantage - 4774
Cinebench CPU – 3.99
Cinebench OpenGL – 32.93 FPS
Unigine Heaven – 20.8 FPS
I then worked up the OC on the iGPU (as I mentioned before my Unigine heaven woes stopped me from going to 800Mhz so benched at 757Mhz)

Multiplier 34x (3.4Ghz)-iGPU 757Mhz-RAM 1866Ghmz
3dMark11 - 1314
3dMark Vantage - 4982
Cinebench CPU – 4.03
Cinebench OpenGL – 34.63 FPS
Unigine Heaven – 21.8 FPS
I then did some after the fact tests and ramped down the multiplier.
For 33x Cinebench GL and unigine heaven actually increased a bit while the biggest drop was Cinebench CPU.
Multiplier 33x (3.32Ghz)-iGPU 757Mhz-RAM 1866Ghmz
3dMark11 - 1309
3dMark Vantage - 4961
Cinebench CPU – 3.89
Cinebench OpenGL – 34.70 FPS
Unigine Heaven – 21.9 FPS

Again very little decrease in benches. I'm not sure why Unigine is so high. I need to double check and maybe re-bench when I get some time.
Multiplier 32x (3.4Ghz)-iGPU 757Mhz-RAM 1866Ghmz
3dMark11 - 1307
3dMark Vantage - 4937
Cinebench CPU – 3.73
Cinebench OpenGL – 34.05 FPS
Unigine Heaven – 23.3 FPS

As you can see my benches are not earth shattering. I guess a lot of the choices I made in the budget build limited that but I put down all the benching and research for a reason but it did prove on what you need to focus if you OC APUs.

So yes I went through all this for two reasons;
1. To confirm to myself the advice I got from Lordred (concentrate on OCing the iGPu and RAM). To all potential APU Overclockers...DONT skimp on RAM )like I always use to do..even the RAM I bought was budget but after doing a few builds and being limited by RAM selection, I did my research this time and still bought budget ($54.99 vs the $40.99 I normally purchase) but I easily got it to 1866Ghz,
2. So many times I've been stuck trying to get just that little bit more out of my OC and was wondering “what can I do to get just a little bit more?” as Rgone has stated there is little info on Apu overclocking so hopefully this suggestion from Lordred can help quite a few noob APU overclockers to save time and focus on some key components. I know there are going to be others that have the same questions I did.

Well I'm actually not done yet. Going to look at my budget build and see what I can do with the FSB multiplier. From Lordred's post and other stuff I've read I've limited myself by getting a mobo with 3+1 VRM without a heatsink so I have to be conservative about how high I go before blowing the mobo (you live and learn)..but the other thing I've learnt is to be careful in your choice of BIOS. From the ones I've bought ASUS and Asrock give you the choices to freely change CPU and fsb multiplier..While I liked the Biostars they are somewhat limited in this fashion. So do your homework and look up the mobo manuals before you choose them to see what options you can change to give you greatest OC configuration capabilities.

Hopefully I can play a little with the FSB without destroying anything and I'll report back when I have time.

 

[sabrefv]

Going back over my thread the results of the 34x 757Mhz iGPu 1866 Ram were simlar but better then the results i posted on august 3rd at 5;25am. Those were 34x 103FSB 1600Ghz RAm and 600Mhz iGPU. I'm assuming that the FSB acceleration also OCed the Ram and iGPU 9as i understand it it OCs everything) which is why those results were betther then the baselines i posted in this last post.
Assuming that not acclerating the FSB is better.

 

[Lordred]

Most of the FM1 boards run into Sata corruption and the loss of ACHI support above 110mhz most of the time, some boards can get as high as 137.

I'm glad your happy with the results.

 

[sabrefv]

Thanks Lordred

 

[RGone]

Thank you "sabrefv" for that good write-up of your results. So many seek help but put nothing up for posterity as you have. Be well man.

RGone...ster.

 

[sabrefv]

Thought I would do a quick follow up.
Just as a matter or interest I added a Radeon HD 6670 graphics card (APUs will do dual graphics with a Radeon HD 6450, HD6570 or HD 6670). The latest version of Catalyst (AMD Vision Control Center)..I think it's 12.7. AMD is calling it Dual Graphiics in the latest version instead of hybrid crossfire. The graphics card model I got was HIS 1GB DDR5. First I enabled surround view in the BIOS (you'll normally find this in the BIOS under northbridge settings). Then went into windows and downloaded AMD autodetect and it downloaded latest version of Catalyst as well as drivers. It also autodetected dual graphics. I then ran the benches again and this is what I got. I'm comparing at my highest stable setting (34x CPu multiplier, RAM OCed to 1866, iGpu OCed to 757Mhz). If you look at the benchmark comparisons you can see performance increased significantly in all except Cinebench CPU.

Multiplier 34x (3.4Ghz)-iGPU 757Mhz-RAM 1866Ghmz - Dual Graphics enabled with HIS Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR5
3dMark11 - 2533 vs 1314 without dual graphics
3dMark Vantage - 9576 vs 4982 without dual graphics
Cinebench CPU – 4.05 vs 4.03 without dual graphics
Cinebench OpenGL – 52.3 FPS vs 34.63 FPS without dual graphics
Unigine Heaven – 52.0 FPS vs 21.8 FPS without dual graphics

I think impressive....agree?

 

[Lordred]

Now match the GPU clock speeds

 

[sabrefv]

Lordred are you saying have the iGPU run at 800Mhz as well as the hIS 6670 which is currently at 800Mhz? I ran GPU-z and looks like the GPU clock an default clock speed for the 6670 is 800mhz. The iGPU is at 757Mhz because that is the highest stable clock speed i could get (as I said above it passes every test..OCCT and prime 95 without issues but gives me a black screen on the last screen of unigine heaven when I OCed the iGPU to 800Mhz).
I added ccopper heat sinks to all the MOSFETs in the 3+1 VRM and I suppose I can try playing with the volatges so I'll try Oclocking the iGPU up to 800mhz today and let you know.
Any suggestions on which voltages to tweak if i have to up them for the iGPU? I'm assuming it's Vcore since it' sintegrated into the CPU.

thanks