OverClocking advice and guidance

[cctaylor88]

Well I honestly don't even know where to begin, as I have never even attempted to overclock before. The only thing that may be a problem is that I don't have any "aftermarket" cooling or heat sinks, but I don't want to do anything crazy as far as the overclocking goes. Just want to squeeze out whatever stable and safe performance I can!

Basically before I begin I want to know what I'm doing...

What software should I download, as I assume there will be a lot of trial and error involved with this

Ram: g.Skill Ripjaws 8gb

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2

Motherboard: ASUS M4A87TD/USB3

Power: 600W

Case (to show fans/cooling): MidTower

Also.. I always notice that on start up when I see my BIOS screen I can press 4 to their "ASUS core unlocker" or whatever...

CPU-Z is saying that my CPU "Core Voltage" is sitting around 1.332 V
Also... the RAM I purchased states that it is a CL9 but CPU-Z is saying that the CAS Latency is at "11.0 clocks" why would this be?

 

[RGone]

Dolk's Guide to the Phenom II - The guide to taming the Phenom II (and Athlon II ...soon to include Thuban!).

 

[trents]

Are you using the stock cooler for the CPU, the one that came boxed with it or some aftermarket cooler? You don't say and this is a critical component. You have a case with good ventilation potential and the motherboard is a good match for the CPU so there is good potential to overclock that X4 955. If you have not done so, you need to get a good aftermarket cooler like the Coolermaster hyper 212 plus. I would not attempt overclocking until you have good cooling.

The main bios controls you need to use to overclock would be the CPU multiplier (maybe called CPU "ratio" or something similar) and the CPU voltage. Those would be the basics with a black edition CPU like yours that has an "unlocked" multiplier.

You do not want to enable the Asus core unlocker as with that CPU there are no hidden cores to unlock.

What is the make of the PSU? Hope it's not some 600W piece of cheap garbage.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Welcome cctaylor, do not use core unlocker, your cores are already unlocked. You probably need to set your timings manually in the bios.

 

[cctaylor88]

Okay so no core unlocker per the asus board? You are saying I should have some type of "multiplier" for the CPU within the BIOS somewhere? Okay, so it sounds like the first step is to go from my stock CPU cooler to an aftermarket one...how hard is that? I don't remember when i assembled the computer (2.5yrs ago) how I put the fan on..I believe there was some adhesive or something...how difficult is it to take off the stock cooler and put on a better one for the CPU?

The PSU is linked above, its a 600W "OCZ ModXStream Pro"

 

[trents]

The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 evo is a very popular and affordable aftermarket cooler for overclocking mid range CPUs like yours. It would require removing the motherboard to install a back plate which serves as a base for the cooler's mounting screws. Not hard if you've already assembled the PC yourself. There is a paste (TIM or Thermal Interface Material) that goes down between the cooler base and the CPU face to facilitate heat conduction between the CPU and the cooler base. The cooler will come with a little but I suggest picking up a small tube of Arctic Silver 5 while you're at it so you have some extra in case you need to remove the cooler to reseat it, etc.

The CPU mulitiplier/ratio speeds the CPU up when it is increased. Stock multiplier for your CPU is 16x. The system frequency is 200 mhz (what we commonly call FSB or Front Side Bus but the technical term is HT Reference). The speed of the CPU is the product of the FSB and the multiplier. So, the stock 3.2 ghz is 200x16=3200 mhz. The easiest way to speed the CPU up when you have one with the multiplier unlocked is just to increase the multiplier. So, if you want it to run at 3.6 ghz for instance, you increase the multiplier to 18x which gives 3600 mhz (200x18=3600). Of course, at some point you need to also add CPU voltage to support the higher speed. Making it run faster means more heat so that's why you need a better cooler.

 

[cctaylor88]

Alright so with stock everything I managed to get my CPU from 3.2GHz to 3.61GHz... my idle temperature went from about 39C-40C to 42C-43C is that pretty acceptable? I ran a prime95 stress test (the small FFTs) for 7.5hrs last night and I got 0 errors and 0 warnings...during which Core Temp had my maximum temp readings reach 69C during the 100% load stress tests...is this acceptable?

I mean I don't know how often Ill come close to loading my CPU usage to 100% (as prime95 does) as I don't game often at all, so I am assuming these numbers should be sufficient. As a reference, I have 4 tabs open currently and one virtual textbook (college) and my CPU temp is reading 42C

 

[RGone]

What we generally make suggestions from seeing...

...The first thing would be to download the tools we use when overclocking: CPU-z, HWMonitor and Prime95. All are freeware.

The next thing to do would be to check core/"package" temps and CPU temps at stock frequencies and voltages to get an idea of how much overclocking headroom you have from a temperature standpoint, which is the main limiting factor.

To check those stock condition temps: Open HWMonitor on your desktop and adjust the slider and frame so you can see the core temps section and the voltage section. Leave it open while you run the Prime95 blend test for 20 minutes. When that is done, attach a pic of the HWMonitor interface with your next post. To attach a pic, first crop and save the image to disc using Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories. Then click on the Go Advanced button at the bottom of any new post window. When the Advanced Post window appears, click on the little paperclip icon which will load the file browser and upload tool. The rest is obvious.

Next you need to be able to:

1. In bios, first disable: Cool N Quiet, Turbo, C1E and C6 (BD/PD cpus). Also new with FX-series processor is the APM setting in bios. Locate and disable APM, so the high current draw thru the VRMs will not cause cpu throttling.
2. In Windows Control Panel Power Options configure it to High Performance.

These first two measures should disable all the "green" power saving stuff that cause erratic frequencies and voltages.

Then In bios, you will need to be able to manipulate:
1. CPU core voltage
2. CPU multiplier
3. CPUNB voltage
4. CPUNB frequency (may be expressed as a multiplier)
5. And perhaps, memory voltage

If you can locate those controls in bios you will be off to a good start and we can advise more specifically with regard to their adjustment. The terminology you encounter in the particular bios you are working on may vary somewhat from what I have used so be aware of that.

If you have a CPU with an upward unlocked multiplier, now just start increasing your CPU multiplier by .5x.

After each increase run a 20 minute Prime95 blend test to check for stability.

Always have HWMonitor open on the desktop to monitor core temps. Max stable core/"package" temp is typically 55-58c, somewhere in there. CPU Temp should not go higher than 70c.

When you first fail the 20 minute Prime blend test, increase your CPU core voltage by .025 and retest. If you still fail, add another .025 vcore. Then retest, repeating the pattern outlined. Stop adding vcore when your reach 1.5 or core temps exceed the parameters mentioned above.

Failing the Prime test can mean blue screen, spontaneous restart, lockup or one of the Prime core workers dropping out. Post back after you have added two increments of vcore or hit the mid 50's core temp wall. When you post, attach pics of HWMonitor; CPUz CPU Tab and CPUz Memory Tab from your last Prime95 blend run and give us a report.

 

[cctaylor88]

For starters are you saying that I should run the prime95 "blend test" for stability purposes, I was under the impression that the "small FFTs" was the stress test I should run. Also... I have already OC'd from 3.2GHz to 3.6GHz and ran a successful stress test on prime for 7.5hrs I did write down my starting core voltages/speed/ and my cpu temp via core temp.

3.2GHz - Core Voltage: 1.332V Multi: x16 CPU Temp @ Idle: 40C
3.6GHz - Core Voltage: 1.380V Multi: x18 CPU Temp @ Idle: 41-42C

I did disable the Cool N Quiet but I dont know what you mean by "disable APM" Under the "power" tab in my BIOS I have:
Suspend Mode
Repost Video on S3 Resume
ACPI 2.0 Support
ACPI APIC Suppport
APM Configuration... what should I set everything in APM Config to? I assume disabled?

Also I do know how to manipulate the settings you mentioned above...so we can go from here.

When you say increase my CPU Core Voltage by .025 how exactly do I do this because when I change the Core Voltage it is a blank box so if I am currently at 1.380 would I go to 1.405?

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Alright so with stock everything I managed to get my CPU from 3.2GHz to 3.61GHz... my idle temperature went from about 39C-40C to 42C-43C is that pretty acceptable? I ran a prime95 stress test (the small FFTs) for 7.5hrs last night and I got 0 errors and 0 warnings...during which Core Temp had my maximum temp readings reach 69C during the 100% load stress tests...is this acceptable?

I mean I don't know how often I'll come close to loading my CPU usage to 100% (as prime95 does) as I don't game often at all, so I am assuming these numbers should be sufficient. As a reference, I have 4 tabs open currently and one virtual textbook (college) and my CPU temp is reading 42C

Your temperatures under load are reading too high for a Phenom II CPU.

Normally you want to keep the temperature below 55°C for all cores, so at 69°C they are unusually high and could potentially damage the CPU if run at that speed and temperature for long periods of time (say if the system were doing multiple updates, a virus scan, disk defragmentation or something of that nature.

I would suggest you back down your overclock for the time being given those high temperatures, and wait until after you have installed an aftermarket cooler so that you can run the system at safer temperatures.

Even if you don't often intentionally have your computer at full load it can go to full load on its own on account of scheduled system processes such as a virus scan or Operating System/program updates, and I've seen this happen in the past where a system that was running too hot did that and then shut down due to overheating.

 

[Tech Tweaker]

For starters are you saying that I should run the prime95 "blend test" for stability purposes, I was under the impression that the "small FFTs" was the stress test I should run. Also... I have already OC'd from 3.2GHz to 3.6GHz and ran a successful stress test on prime for 7.5hrs I did write down my starting core voltages/speed/ and my cpu temp via core temp.

3.2GHz - Core Voltage: 1.332V Multi: x16 CPU Temp @ Idle: 40C
3.6GHz - Core Voltage: 1.380V Multi: x18 CPU Temp @ Idle: 41-42C

I did disable the Cool N Quiet but I dont know what you mean by "disable APM" Under the "power" tab in my BIOS I have:
Suspend Mode
Repost Video on S3 Resume
ACPI 2.0 Support
ACPI APIC Suppport
APM Configuration... what should I set everything in APM Config to? I assume disabled?

Also I do know how to manipulate the settings you mentioned above...so we can go from here.

When you say increase my CPU Core Voltage by .025 how exactly do I do this because when I change the Core Voltage it is a blank box so if I am currently at 1.380 would I go to 1.405?

Blend test is more of a system-wide stability test and so can expose problems in areas of the system other than the CPU (memory, chipsets, etc).

Small FFT's is a test centered primarily around the CPU only, and so does not test other areas of the system very much, if at all. It is normally used primarily for finding maximum CPU temperatures under load.

 

[cctaylor88]

Hm well I figured if the prime95 tests ran for a long time (I ran mine for 7.5hrs) under full stress and found no errors I was good to go..Like right now I am sitting at 43C and I have my normal amount of tasks going...also I posted a pic of HW Monitor in my previous post (edited it in) that is my computer normal..running about 5 browser tabs, core temp, cpu-z, paint, and windows explorer

 

[cctaylor88]

Okay this is HWMon during the blend test for prime

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Hm well I figured if the prime95 tests ran for a long time (I ran mine for 7.5hrs) under full stress and found no errors I was good to go..Like right now I am sitting at 43C and I have my normal amount of tasks going...also I posted a pic of HW Monitor in my previous post (edited it in) that is my computer normal..running about 5 browser tabs, core temp, cpu-z, paint, and windows explorer

Well, normally if you run the stability test that long and complete without errors or warnings then yes you could consider the computer stable.

Running at such high temperatures under load though is still an area of concern, as this could cause damage to the CPU, motherboard, or kill components entirely.

 

[cctaylor88]

Pictures of my AI Tweaker tab and its settings. Is there anything I can change in there to lower the temp?

Also in the fan picture what BIOS settings can I manipulate to increase my fan speeds (make it spin faster or what have you) Should I lower the "CPU Upper Temp" to something like 65C or what?
Also the "CPU Fan Speed" at the top under the CPU/MB temps... cant I raise that? How do I know how high I should/can raise it from where it stands at 2368RPM?

 

[cctaylor88]

Minor Update: I noticed that after I installed and used SpeedFan to set my CPU fan to 100% that after 20min of prime blend test my max CPU Core Temps reached 63C vs the 66C previously.

Its just annoying how much louder my CPU Fan is now at 100%, can't I make it so that it only kicks up to 100% when the CPU reaches temperature X for example?

 

[Mandrake4565]

63c is still too high, I wouldn't run the pc at those speeds for long. You should consider getting a good heatsink.

 

[RGone]

Yellow star under name so you are fully eligible for a signature.
Put up Sig at OCF.

New Shortcut method for putting a Signature with your system information following your every post so people can know what is in the case that they are trying to assist with. You can use something like what is shown in my signature as a good template of needed information Thank you.

 

[cctaylor88]

Alright lets say I buy an after market HSF... what should I clean the CPU off with before placing the new HSF on it? Shouldn't I clean it after removing the stock HSF? Can I use anything laying around the house..i don't have rubbing alcohol however

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Alright lets say I buy an after market HSF... what should I clean the CPU off with before placing the new HSF on it? Shouldn't I clean it after removing the stock HSF? Can I use anything laying around the house..i don't have rubbing alcohol however

Isopropyl/Rubbing Alcohol of a 70-91% solution is most often recommended.

Also ArctiClean is a very good cleaner made specifically for removing thermal paste/grease.

Acetone is not recommended as it can eat away some metals and plastics (will destroy motherboard if you get it on there), nail polish remover is not recommended for the same reason (also contains various oils which could damage the computer if they contact electrical contacts on the board or the pins and cause an electrical short).

I'd suggest getting some Isopropyl Alcohol if you can, as it's usually fairly cheap and easy to find, depending upon what country you're in.