Ram selection for an X299 build

[Voodoo Rufus]

Hello guys.

I'm woefully out of the loop on hardware these days. Just discovered M.2 stuff reading on the forums and review sites and had no idea that was a thing.

I'm in the planning stages of a potential X299 build with a 7820X (8 core, quad channel). I want to run 32GB of ram, tend to like GSkill ram, and have leaned towards tighter timings as opposed to cranking up the clock rates on my ram systems. Could not care less about blingy heatspreaders or LEDs.

If you fellows could point me in a good direction, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Woomack]

All popular kits should work on X299. I was testing G.Skill, Crucial, Kingston, SuperTalent and Patriot. All of them work fine. Simply whatever works on X99 will work on X299, if not then motherboard manufacturer made something wrong.
The best performance in reasonable price ( well, still expensive ) have 3200 14-14-14 kits. Anything 3600+ will be based on Samsung IC and these kits are the best for OC but also cost more.
On all new platforms higher frequency counts more than the latency. If you get Samsung kit then it will be the best in both ( usually after overclocking but it's not really hard ). GSkill 3000 14-14-14, 3200 14-14-14/15-15-15 will be Samsung based. It's easy to check that as only Samsung is in mass sales at so tight timings.

Right now I'm using Patriot Viper 4 3733, 2 kits of 2x8GB as Patriot has no quad channel kit above some frequency. These kits were designed for Z170/X99 and work without issues. The same was with older TridentZ 3200 or some other kits.
I also have 4x16GB Ballistix Elite 3000 CL15 which runs 100% stable at 3600 CL16 1.35V.
At least on ASUS X299 TUF2 board, which is the cheapest one, all kits were working at XMP settings and were overclocking quite good.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

Thanks, Woomack. I had a hunch you had the answer.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

So Woomack, were you suggesting something like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BMDALH0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=ISYZLOW8E66HQ&colid=26QOGVFUV14Q9

 

[batboy]

Yeah, those should have the Samsung IC chips that he's talking about. I have almost the same too, although my Trident Z's are rated DDR4-3600 15-15-15-35; however, that's pretty much the same as DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34. I have screenshots of tighter timings and higher frequency, but this is stable (see screenshot) with everything I throw at it.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

Those are the guys.

 

[Woomack]

So Woomack, were you suggesting something like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BMDALH0/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=ISYZLOW8E66HQ&colid=26QOGVFUV14Q9

Yes, this kit will offer about the best balance between high frequency and tight timings. Additionally should OC good. I had 2x8GB the same sticks but black/white and could run at 3600 C15 1.35V without issues.

@batboy
So you made 4000 in quad channel, nice. It takes some work to pass ~3733 stable. Have you used additional training settings ? I think I said something about it in other thread.

 

[batboy]

Yes, enabling the training was the only way I could get past 3200.

Well, I actually got this RAM to do 4200 in quad... but it's not stable in a lot of the benchmarks. Maybe if I wanted to use more voltage, I haven't gone past 1.425v yet, and/or loosen timings more.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

So why are Samsung chips the hot stuff lately, and what are the competitors?

 

[batboy]

I dunno, we'll need Woomack to answer that one. I just know Samsung is tops with M-2 SSD in addition to having awesome DDR4 IC RAM chips.

 

[EarthDog]

Hynix I believe is the other. But, the reality is the what is under the hood, unless you are pushing well past spec, doesn't matter terribly much. For benching, surely. For the rest. Not so much.

 

[Woomack]

Samsung is the only one which is overclocking past ~3600 in higher density modules (I mean like about every chip). Hynix is in mass sales in kits up to ~3333 and depends on luck will make 3600+ but at more relaxed timings ... or will stuck at 3200 or even below. Micron is in kits up to 3000. Actually I think that only Corsair is using Micron in some 3000 kits. Micron in general is overclocking between 2800 and 3200 but if you won't have luck then quad channel kit can have modules between 2666 and 3200.
Simply Samsung is in nearly every new 3466+ kit. On the other hand cost more so is mainly in more expensive series.
Hynix is in many cheaper kits and everywhere where can replace Samsung in lower price. Everything between 2133 and 3200.
Micron is in all cheaper series and everything with specification the same as Hynix/Samsung. Can be in 2133-2666 kits at the same main timings as other IC.

Samsung can run at tight timings so when you see kits at 14-14-14 or 15-15-15 above 3000 then it's almost sure there is samsung IC.
Hynix is in kits at more relaxed timings but here is a catch. Brands like Corsair sell most their kits at the same SPD/XMP regardless of used IC so when is shortage then they can replace it with something else. 3000 C15/16 kits can be based on Samsung, Hynix and Micron. 3200-3400 16-18-18 kits can be based on Hynix or Samsung. However as I said before, all new 3600+ kits will be only Samsung.

Even if you check available IC then there is no big choice. Every brand has 2-3 IC on the consumer market. Even in ECC modules are the same IC just with additional chip for error correction. So Hynix will be almost only AFR/MFR ( AFR supposed to be better but there is no clear rule ), Micron has maybe 3 versions of D9 and all OC about the same and Samsung has B/C/D but I haven't seen anything but B die in all kits in this year. D was in lower density kits so can find it in 4GB single rank or 8GB dual rank modules.

Yes, enabling the training was the only way I could get past 3200.

Well, I actually got this RAM to do 4200 in quad... but it's not stable in a lot of the benchmarks. Maybe if I wanted to use more voltage, I haven't gone past 1.425v yet, and/or loosen timings more.

I will probably play some with memory this weekend as I have to finish review. But it clearly shows that there is no big difference between the cheapest and the most expensive X299 boards except additional features ( which most users are not using ). TUF2 cost 1/2 of higher ROG and OC about the same. The only difference will be probably only in CPU overclocking on LN2 as TUF2 may have some issues to keep stable clock at really high voltage.

 

[RJ88]

mannn I think ordered wrong kit dude...that evo spear kit was for Ryzen? didn't put anywhere on there specifically for that...but still says ok for z200 lol

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

Five months later, ram is more available but still expensive.

Thinking I'm going to wait for Cascade Lake X and skip Skylake X. I may do a GPU upgrade in the meantime to hold me over.

 

[Woomack]

RAM is expensive and won't be much cheaper anytime soon. Problem can be that some new memory series that I see are on worse IC ( at least for OC ) than popular Samsung B and other IC are appearing in higher frequency memory kits but at more relaxed timings. Just wait till brands like Corsair start to mix Hynix and Samsung in their top series.
I can't tell everything I know ( or not yet as I was asked not to share some info ) but just check new Kingston series at 3466 19-19-19.

What I want to say is that we don't know if next memory series will be still on IC like Samsung B. Even Samsung B from new batches isn't as good as older series. For sure it's not worth to sell top memory kits. Hard to say if it's good idea to buy something on still available "good IC" as we don't know what we will see in next months.

Memory IC is always going from low to high capacity. With higher capacity are related more relaxed timings. The same was with DDR1 Winbond/Samsung ->Promos/Hynix/Samsung, DDR2 Micron->Elpida/PSC, DDR3 Elpida/PSC->Hynix/Samsung ( Samsung wasn't bad ) and now with DDR4 Samsung -> ?.

AMD users are in a bit better situation as for them timings won't matter much and new IC will run at higher frequency. I will only say that new Hynix can make 3600 on Ryzen.

 

[batboy]

Thinking I'm going to wait for Cascade Lake X and skip Skylake X.

I'd like to know more about Cascade Lake X. It popped up on the Intel roadmap for 4Q 2018, but nobody seems to know much about it.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

You and me both. I'm in wait and see mode. I'm hoping for better thermal performance over SkylakeX.

 

[Woomack]

All depends on what you need. It's constant waiting on something new and our expectations are always higher than reality Simply every Intel ( not to mention AMD ) generation was disappointment in some part. We became beta testers of unfinished or badly tested hardware so no matter what we get, after 3-6 months of "fun" we wait on something new. It's like you are happy of what you get but something is always missing.

I wanted to get lower 2066 CPU as I have additional board but later I was thinking ... KL-X would be great for dual channel memory OC but I don't really want 4 core CPU only for memory tests, 7800X is in quite low price now but it's only 6 core CPU which isn't any special comparing to 8600/8700K or any higher series, I have 7900X so I don't want to spend $1000 on next expensive 2066 CPU from already old series and 7820X was in price of TR 1920X ... so after longer thinking I ordered 1920X which was in promo price, after recent price drop from AMD, cheap shipping and with $100 price drop because I signed to free month of Amazon Prime. Again I don't know if it's good idea but at least X399 will be on the market ( at least AMD says that ) longer than any current Intel chipset. Other thing is that I sold 2 Ryzen rigs and wanted something on AMD

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

What I need.....another rig whose main guts will last another 5+ years like the current one. I've got my 2600K at 4.4GHz pretty happy now. It's 7 years old now but still runs awesome.

I'm upgrading my monitor to a 34" unit, and will need something more powerful than my 980Ti to power it with my current games. So, a GPU upgrade will work until Intel brings out a CPU worth getting, and that will be whatever succeeds the 1080Ti. Missing out on 10% performance isn't a big enough reason to upgrade the core components yet. Skylake 7820X is close, but not enough for me yet.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

Hey Woomack, how are your ram suggestions now for X299 or X470?