Sell or else!!!

[CryptokiD]

this will be my last post from linux. i just cant seem to get my dual display working. i spent a good chunk of money on 2 widescreen lcd's and a dual display ati card. ive been fighting with various distros of linux for over a week
now to get my dual display working and also get 3d working at an acceptable speed. (half of a fps doesnt cut it). it seems i can have good 3d, OR good dual display, but not both.
seems like the default driver included with linux works great in 3d, but i get no dual screen. the ati driver gives me dual screens, but no 3d. after a week of messing with this, ive come to the conclusion that i either need to buy a new video card, or go to windows where i know my card works properly. i cant waste any more time reading linux forums and trying out new things which hose my x and are a pain to undo.

its cheaper to go to windows than buy a new card...

anyone want a fedora core 6 install dvd as well as an ubuntu install dvd? send me a pm.

 

[brakezone]

have you tried Xorg -configure? that always correctly sets up my 3 graphics card system.

 

[splat]

this will be my last post from linux. i just cant seem to get my dual display working. i spent a good chunk of money on 2 widescreen lcd's and a dual display ati card. ive been fighting with various distros of linux for over a week
now to get my dual display working and also get 3d working at an acceptable speed. (half of a fps doesnt cut it). it seems i can have good 3d, OR good dual display, but not both.
seems like the default driver included with linux works great in 3d, but i get no dual screen. the ati driver gives me dual screens, but no 3d. after a week of messing with this, ive come to the conclusion that i either need to buy a new video card, or go to windows where i know my card works properly. i cant waste any more time reading linux forums and trying out new things which hose my x and are a pain to undo.

its cheaper to go to windows than buy a new card...

anyone want a fedora core 6 install dvd as well as an ubuntu install dvd? send me a pm.

Put a post in the Alternative OS Section here on OCF. We actually have a good group of guys who routinely post/answer questions/help other out. I'd post some help here, but you should really start a new thread.

 

[dropadrop]

I agree that Mac OS X is a great alternative, but it's main problem is that it cannot legally be run on anything other than a Mac.

Maby I'm starting to be old, but I don't get a lot of kicks from pimping a pc anymore. There did used to be a time when I enjoyed blowing and soldering bridges on processors, but that was a long time ago.

I guess one thing affecting me is that I don't need all the performance modern machines offer. My emphasis has long since been shifting towards silence and "just working". I maintain Linux and Solaris machines at work all day long, and know them pretty well. I still can't be bothered to run Linux at home. This is due to not liking the Linux desktop environment, and Linux still requiring quite a lot of tweaking.

For me OsX is like Linux which works well. If you want to do something "under the bonnet" things get complicated, but for normal use the ergonomics of the os are just great. The machines are also very well thought out, and as long as you can get enough memory and a big disk in the machine it works great for me.

 

[PingSpike]

I also wish Apple would officially release OSX for the PC. Its not a big stretch these days since new Macs are PCs anyway. They'd need to get a little further on the drivers. Linux being free is great and all, but the cost of that is kind of that it has no single force acting as its marketing super power, and it doesn't have a single face people can learn to know. These things are important for the average joe mass market...in fact they're probably more important then low cost.

Ed had an article talking about this very idea, and while it seems contrary to Apple's whole business model awhile back...it doesn't seem like an outlandish idea anymore, and might even be a profitable venture if Apple could get it out fast.

 

[brakezone]

I think that OSX could do awsome in the PC market.... or it could do absolutely horrible. I think that is what they are afraid of, is that it would be such a huge risk.

 

[splat]

I also wish Apple would officially release OSX for the PC. Its not a big stretch these days since new Macs are PCs anyway. They'd need to get a little further on the drivers. Linux being free is great and all, but the cost of that is kind of that it has no single force acting as its marketing super power, and it doesn't have a single face people can learn to know. These things are important for the average joe mass market...in fact they're probably more important then low cost.

Ed had an article talking about this very idea, and while it seems contrary to Apple's whole business model awhile back...it doesn't seem like an outlandish idea anymore, and might even be a profitable venture if Apple could get it out fast.

well, it's no stretch to say that one reason OS X is so simple to use is that it only runs on predefined hardware, so by definition it has to work. While Windows and *nix can run on hundreds of thousands of different setups, so drivers a much larger issue. If Apple decided to allow OS X to be run on any old PC, they would start getting flack for having bad drivers and hardware that doesn't work.

So it's trade-offs and gambles...just as any other business decision. Unless you are MS where you can simply force people to do what you want.

 

[PingSpike]

Yeah, I'm not doubting it would be kind of ugly at first. And you can't just pull mature driver support out of thin air. But Ed's articles kind of pointed out that while Apple is doing great with its iPod division it isn't really doing much with its old computers.

 

[speed bump]

I think that OSX could do awsome in the PC market.... or it could do absolutely horrible. I think that is what they are afraid of, is that it would be such a huge risk.

OSX would most likely fail horribly if it was released as an operating system for anyone. Can you imagine the amount of drivers they would have to write as well as the amount of configurations they would have to test to even make it half as stable as it is on their propietary computers.

 

[splat]

OSX would most likely fail horribly if it was released as an operating system for anyone. Can you imagine the amount of drivers they would have to write as well as the amount of configurations they would have to test to even make it half as stable as it is on their propietary computers.

it would be like....linux.

 

[brakezone]

OSX would most likely fail horribly if it was released as an operating system for anyone. Can you imagine the amount of drivers they would have to write as well as the amount of configurations they would have to test to even make it half as stable as it is on their propietary computers.

I think thats what I said, except I think anything has the potential for success as well, apparently apple doesn't think so. Your forgetting that OSX is basically a unix which is derived from freeBSD, which already runs on a wide variety of hardware. I think that your exaggerating the amount of work that would need to be done to make a halfway decent commercial desktop unix; however, I don't think apple has the guts to take the risks necessary to be successful in this market.

Additionally, Apple currently sells PC's with OSx which have a limited range of hardware. They make money off both the system units and hardware as well as the OS. If they sell OSX as an OS, it may hurt the system/hardware sales. Don't think that they haven't entertained the idea and concluded that the OS would surely bomb because of hardware and drivers.

Don't get me wrong, my post was only pointing out that the failure would hurt them badly; however, we can't sit here and act like we know which ideas will fail and which will succeed based upon so many unknowns.

 

[PingSpike]

I don't think the driver thing is as hard as some people make it out to be. It'd definately be a big pain in the *** and surely have some growing pains, but its not impossible. Its not like there are no drivers existing for its base afterall.

On some level, didn't Apple actually already try this back in the 90s when they allowed 3rd party mac clones? IIRC it did successfully increase their installed base a lot, however everyone was buying the cheaper clones instead of the more expensive apple branded stuff so apple stopped doing that. On the other hand, Apple machines have gotten a lot cheaper these days and I wonder just how much cash they get from those sales. I don't think they'd have to hard of a time competing with vista on software price. I guess its a question of goals...do they want to increase their installed base, or are they just looking to profit on machine sales? To boil it down even further, you have to ask...does apple want to sell software for computers or computers? Because they will canibalize their own machine sales if they open their software, no question about it.

If they were going to try this, I think a good entry vector would be to approach dell, hp, gateway, etc and work with them to get drivers for all their machines so that they could be sold with OSX on them. The hardware there is easier to manage from a driver standpoint (less nerds changing the guys every 3 days), and thats where most of the sales are anyway. You would spiral out the support from there.

 

[v8440]

you know that microsoft made it illegal to sell a laptop without an OS (possibly a desktop too, but i'm unsure)? they claim that if a laptop has no OS it is most likely that the person receiving the laptop will pirate windows on it, so it is actually illegal to. this is the answer i got directly from HP's technical support when asking for a laptop with no OS.

Wow, I'm amazed. Microsoft is not the executive branch of the government, hence they cannot "make it illegal" to do anything. They could lobby and try to convince people who ARE lawmakers that they ought to make something illegal, but there's no guarantee that they would succeed. In fact, I strongly suspect that even they would not try something that ridiculous. Following that logic, it ought to be illegal for a store to close. After all, if they don't close, no one will break in, right?

Here's one example of a place where you can get a laptop without an OS: http://www.rjtech.com/

If someone ever tells you that microsoft made it illegal to do anything, tell them to:

1. Go **** up a rope, preferably in a strong headwind.

2. Put down the crackpipe.

3. If they are technical support personnel, advise them that you're making it illegal for people who have not passed the 7th grade to hold jobs giving advice to other people.

 

[v8440]

I wish ed was alittle less shallow in his thinking. This is actually a positive if Microsoft is selling more copies of Vista and replacing XP very quickly. The faster they replace XP the more of their support people that can be dedicated to supporting Vista resulting in a much better OS in a shorter amount of time.

Gosh, that's a great idea. Tell you what, let's not stop there. Hopefully auto manufacturers will start producing (and repairing) only one model. Think of how much time and money could be saved if they only had to learn about one vehicle. Imagine how GOOD those repair people would be, and how easy it would be to get parts for that vehicle.

Next, I think paint manufacturers ought to only make one color of paint. Remember, it'll be cheaper and better!

Moving right along, I see a bright future for the construction business. Even the dumbest worker will eventually memorize every facet of the blueprint. After all, there'll be only one. What, a family of 8 needs a bigger house than a single person? Choices, schmoices. When they see how much cheaper and better it'll be, they'll undoubtedly get right with the program.

Ok, the facetiousness aside, I think you might want to reconsider what you're saying-I somehow strongly suspect a LACK of choice for the consumer is not better than a choice.

 

[gangaskan]

Large percentage buyers will be able to force XP instead with minimal effort. You cant force Companies to use an as of yet not completely tested OS that isnt even fully compatible.

thats exactly the issue microsoft figures, people will deal with the software problems for home use and small busineuss use, however, with large corporations with 100+ computers they cant afford to have a machine be in operable.

our antivirius at work dosent work on vista machines currently, and we have no solution for it at the moment. other than upgrading our client that is on our sonicwall

 

[FeralCom]

This just hit me at my job

I support thousands of users for a global company. Many still use 2000 and even a few robotic systems are still NT boxes. XP just became our standard OS 18 months ago.

Here is my problem...

When MS forced XP there was a critical difference. Home and work PCs were more divided. Yes, you had people using remote applications, but not nearly as many as you have today. Just think about what has boomed since.

Mobile Exchange Devices – Blackberries, Treos
Voice IP
Wider use of VPNs
Boom of application services such as Citrix

People are more on the go and many times without company-supplied hardware. I get a phone call today from a sales rep trying to buy a laptop. Knowing we only officially support 2000/XP systems (I was recently ordered to halt all OSX support), he was in a slight panic over the fact the no one would sell him a new laptop with XP. The problem was easily solved by pointing him to the “business side” of OEMs like Dell and HP, but it was a rude awaking for me.

Very little has been tested with Vista and we played hell getting a few things to work from the 2000/XP change over. I might have control over the internally used company workstations, but not the thousands of reps, contractors, distributors, etc. that need to share our resources and services. This is a real problem and I still smack myself in the head for my shortsightedness.

So in a way, MS is forcing Vista on business as well. Makes me feel a little better about typing this up on a Mac running OSX with Open Office.

 

[hkgonra]

This just hit me at my job

I support thousands of users for a global company. Many still use 2000 and even a few robotic systems are still NT boxes. XP just became our standard OS 18 months ago.

Here is my problem...

When MS forced XP there was a critical difference. Home and work PCs were more divided. Yes, you had people using remote applications, but not nearly as many as you have today. Just think about what has boomed since.

Mobile Exchange Devices – Blackberries, Treos
Voice IP
Wider use of VPNs
Boom of application services such as Citrix

People are more on the go and many times without company-supplied hardware. I get a phone call today from a sales rep trying to buy a laptop. Knowing we only officially support 2000/XP systems (I was recently ordered to halt all OSX support), he was in a slight panic over the fact the no one would sell him a new laptop with XP. The problem was easily solved by pointing him to the “business side” of OEMs like Dell and HP, but it was a rude awaking for me.

Very little has been tested with Vista and we played hell getting a few things to work from the 2000/XP change over. I might have control over the internally used company workstations, but not the thousands of reps, contractors, distributors, etc. that need to share our resources and services. This is a real problem and I still smack myself in the head for my shortsightedness.

So in a way, MS is forcing Vista on business as well. Makes me feel a little better about typing this up on a Mac running OSX with Open Office.

I know my Dad works for a very large global company and if it isn't company hardware ( and of course software ) they won't even attempt to support it. No matter what OS it is running.