SSD or Velociraptor?

[Evilsizer]

what?

 

[EarthDog]

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5981108&postcount=31

 

[Ashura]

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5981108&postcount=31

Geez, it's not as if the $/GB changed from when he was in the store to when he took it home. Besides, it's a $119 SSD, most likely single JMicron controller. It wasn't going to give him the performance he wanted as repeatedly stated in this thread.

 

[Evilsizer]

the controller is only part of the problem... you can not place all the blame on the controller.... without more details it sounds like something was not tweaked correctly in the os. i run a 30gig OCZ ssd that i know has a jmicron controller on it but i have not issues with my setup. im running XP-32 and only use about 2-4gig of space on the drive. i dont recall reading Vista using 10gig of HD space....

 

[Ashura]

Tweaks aren't a guaranteed fix for the controller's faults. With the Core V1 and V2, I've gone through the OCZ tweaks with a fine toothed comb and made sure I applied them all correctly, as have others with the JMicron drives, only to find that the stuttering persisted. Users like you who have zero issues are few and far in between.

Finding good data on the JMicron JMF602 controller is nearly impossible, but from what I've heard it's got 16KB of on-chip memory for read/write requests. By comparison, Intel's controller has a 256KB SRAM on-die. And I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that given Intel's experience with CPU caches, that its SRAM implementation is probably very well done.

With the JMicron based solutions, if you try and write too much to the drive (and trust me, it won’t take a lot) and the buffers get full, the controller tells the system that it’s not ready to write more data and you get a pause.

When you cause the JM602’s internal buffer to overflow, your system runs in bullet-time. Applications take much longer to launch and close, windows take longer to appear, and there are distinct pauses in anything you want to do that involves the disk. Want to send an IM? Well, that writes to an IM log - you can expect a pause before you can send your IM. Loading webpages is the worst, reading from and writing to the cache wreaks havoc on these cacheless MLC drives. Just for kicks I tried loading AnandTech while I was extracting a 5GB file on the SuperTalent 60GB MLC, it took over 10 seconds for the website to load. Once the JM602 was free to fulfill the read request, the website just popped up - but until then it was like my DNS was failing. It’s a lot like what happens to your notebook if you try and do too much, the disk quickly becomes a bottleneck.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3403&p=10

 

[UBB]

Tweaks aren't a guaranteed fix for the controller's faults. With the Core V1 and V2, I've gone through the OCZ tweaks with a fine toothed comb and made sure I applied them all correctly, as have others with the JMicron drives, only to find that the stuttering persisted. Users like you who have zero issues are few and far in between.

You did alignment as well and still experienced the stuttering? I gathered from reading ocz forums that proper alignment was the best tweak to alleviate stuttering. I was thinking about the lower end series but now I don't know. Probably best for me to continue waiting out Vertex with corrected firmware.

Nevermind, that looks to be for xp only.

 

[aja]

What are these transcend SDD's like?

http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/product_memory.asp?Cid=100&indexnum=4

Features:

Fully compatible with devices and O/S that support the SATA I standard

Built-in ECC (Error Correction Code)

Wear-leveling algorithm ensures reliable data transfer

RoHS Compliant

Low Power Consumption

Certification: CE, FCC, BSMI

2 Year Warranty

*For OS installations, SLC version is recommended!

Specification:
Size: 100mm x 69.85mm x 9.5mm
Op. Voltage: DC 5V
Op. Temperature: 0°C(32°F) to 70°C(158°F)
Weight: 48g
MTBF: 1M hours
[SLC] Max Read 136MB/s, Max Write 96MB/s. (8GB)
Max Read 135MB/s, Max Write 105MB/s. (16-32GB)
Max Read 163MB/s, Max Write 142MB/s. (64GB)
[MLC] Max Read 123MB/s, Max Write 60MB/s. (32GB)
Max Read 148MB/s, Max Write 92MB/s (64GB)
Max Read 163MB/s, Max Write 92MB/s (128-192GB)
Shock: 1500G, 0.8ms
Vibration: 3.0G, 5-800Hz

 

[Ashura]

You did alignment as well and still experienced the stuttering? I gathered from reading ocz forums that proper alignment was the best tweak to alleviate stuttering. I was thinking about the lower end series but now I don't know. Probably best for me to continue waiting out Vertex with corrected firmware.

Nevermind, that looks to be for xp only.

Yes, alignment was done on both XP and Vista installs along with the tweaks mentioned in the stickies. The only thing that got rid of stuttering for me was SteadyState.

The drives were tried in a number of machines btw, from a Gateway 7811FX to my 1000H to a E7200 P35 desktop.

 

[UBB]

Yes, alignment was done on both XP and Vista installs along with the tweaks mentioned in the stickies. The only thing that got rid of stuttering for me was SteadyState.

The drives were tried in a number of machines btw, from a Gateway 7811FX to my 1000H to a E7200 P35 desktop.

Thanks for the info.. I'm definitely going to hold out for vertex now. I can't afford to buy a decent raid card and I don't really like the steadystate solution.

 

[TimoneX]

stuttering issues can be fixed by using a raid card with onboard cache. another way to fix stuttering is to correctly align the partion for XP if your using it. as well as using MS-steady state. how ever this will increase bootup times since it takes random writes and turns them into sequential writes to the drive.

Vertex is a MLC based SSD that should be out soon, as said with no jmicron controller. however the Vertex drive will feature onboard cache on the drive to fix stuttering issues. i would personally at this point wait for vertex but it is a bit pricy.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009849
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009850
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10009989

spawn,
even if it doesnt have the jmicron controller it will still stutter unless it is packing some on board cache. for the price i would rather get this drive.

Why that particular drive sir? Aside from the obvious...price? Not picking on you, but I haven't seen any reviews yet on the ST OX series so when I see someone savvy like yourself point out a choice it gets my attention. Are you aware of any solid reviews on the OX?

 

[Evilsizer]

the ST OX drive for the price is way better then the corsair spawn listed. in raw read/writes the OX drive will beat it. not only that but the OX is half the price, there are some reviews for the ST OX drives. i forget which size was tested but i will have to try to find them...

 

[Ashura]

the ST OX drive for the price is way better then the corsair spawn listed. in raw read/writes the OX drive will beat it. not only that but the OX is half the price, there are some reviews for the ST OX drives. i forget which size was tested but i will have to try to find them...

I'm pretty sure the OX line uses the JMicron controller so there will be stuttering issues (I'll dig up a link to confirm). Not sure why you say the OX is half price either as the 128gb you linked to is $275 and the Corsair 128gb retails for $330. I've tried the Corsair as have others at NBR, it has zero stuttering issues although read/writes are slower than other SSDs at 90/70. It compensates for the speed by running cooler and using less power than the other SSD in the same $/GB, the Titan.

 

[Evilsizer]

i must have lost track of the prices then... cause i have been eyeing the OX drive that is $120ish ...

 

[Ashura]

Confirmation that the OX line uses the same JMicron controller with no onboard cache:
http://www.dansdata.com/ssds.htm
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50184

 

[sil40sx]

hey guys, anyone can confirm that using a pci controller can totally eliminate the $tu?id stuttering?

also, to sum it up... #1 what SSD brand and model is/are guaranteed that doesnt have stuttering/freezing issue thats "currently" available in the market? #2 what are the benefits of the future (will be available soon) gen SSD's? #3 any brand and model in particular (from #2)

Thanks
Sil

 

[Ashura]

hey guys, anyone can confirm that using a pci controller can totally eliminate the $tu?id stuttering?

also, to sum it up... #1 what SSD brand and model is/are guaranteed that doesnt have stuttering/freezing issue thats "currently" available in the market? #2 what are the benefits of the future (will be available soon) gen SSD's? #3 any brand and model in particular (from #2)

Thanks
Sil

A number of people at the OCZ forums have tried the RAID card solution with success, there are a couple of threads here: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47876

If you're going to go this route, just make sure you get a decent card.

1. No SLC SSDs suffer from stuttering but they're much more expensive. For MLC SSDs, Intel SSDs, G.Skill Titans (although apparently Firefox can be a problem, read more here. I still think it's worth buying.) and Corsair's SSD don't have the stuttering issue and are available.

2. Future SSDs will either have controllers with onboard cache (like the Intel currently does, like the upcoming OCZ Vertex will) or will make creative use of the JMicron controller by putting a number of them in RAID 0 (like the G.Skill Titan).

3. As mentioned above, the OCZ Vertex is supposed to use a new controller with onboard cache. Sandisk and Corsair are also both coming out with new SSDs towards the middle of the year which should be fine, don't know what the Corsair line will be called but the Sandisk line is supposed to be G3.

 

[ou_phidelt]

I picked up a core V2 and am going to try it out this weekend. However I do not really have high hopes and am eying the 60GB Vertex pretty hard. When they do drop I'll see what the price of the Intel 80GB is at that point. But for all those considering an Intel drive take a look at this. Interesting read.