SOLVED Unable to run cr1 on z370m gaming pro/gskill 3000c14

[askan7]

I've bought this ram from a guy that was running them on ryzen at 3466mhz cl14 1cr. I can run the exact same setting but no matter what i do can't set it to 1cr, won't even boot.

Right now i'm running 4000mhz 16-16-16-36 2r 320trfc 1.45v stable, but i would like to run command rate 1, it has to be something related to the motherboard.

 

[askan7]

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? I can only run command rate 1 in single channel. Should i try a bios downgrade? i updated the bios the moment i received the board.

 

[EarthDog]

Whats the need to run cr1? I wouldnt chase ghosts.

What cpu is it running with now???

 

[askan7]

8700k at 4.9ghz. i'll post all memory timmings in a minute.

only changed main and secondary timmings, can't even run cr1 at 2133mhz dual channel, but it works at 4000mhz with only one stick, on both sticks.


Using latest bios.

 

[Alaric]

Something in that combo doesn't like C1. Set it to Auto and forget it. There isn't any advantage to be had here.

 

[askan7]

On my previous build with a z97m-plus cr and trfc made a world of difference on system responsiveness and mouse feel.

Trfc doesn't make as much difference now from my testing, I guess cr should be similar. I still noticed an improvement from auto subtimmings and trfc to the manual I have now, feels snappier for sure.

 

[Alaric]

If you're running 3990 MHz at 16-16-16, try bumping your cache speed (uncore) up. I've had my tRFC down to 275, so you should be able to get lower.

 

[Woomack]

Are there 4 modules installed or just soft shows 4 slots as available? On 4 modules it often doesn't work at CR1. CR1 sometimes depends on used BIOS. On motherboards which I was using it was working up to 3600-3866 without issues. Above that is not really guaranteed (even below that isn't but usually works).

 

[askan7]

If you're running 3990 MHz at 16-16-16, try bumping your cache speed (uncore) up. I've had my tRFC down to 275, so you should be able to get lower.

I'll up the cache later yes, but for now I don't want cache errors whole testing memory with karhusoftware memtest.
Tried 320trfc, can't make it stable without upping the voltage and I'm already running at 1.45v

Are there 4 modules installed or just soft shows 4 slots as available? On 4 modules it often doesn't work at CR1. CR1 sometimes depends on used BIOS. On motherboards which I was using it was working up to 3600-3866 without issues. Above that is not really guaranteed (even below that isn't but usually works).

No, I only have 2x8gb. Can't even run 2133mjz with that, but it works stable up to 3466 with just 1 stick.
I guess I'll try older bios when I get home. I'de prefer running 3733 15-15-15 cr1 1.4v than 4000 16 cr2.

 

[Alaric]

Woomack is far more qualified than me, so I'll just watch now.

I'm already running at 1.45v

Cache voltage is separate from vcore. I went over what I found with cache OC here https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/787371-3866-MHz-Too-much-is-enough

 

[askan7]

I tried older bios and i still couldn't get 1cr

Anyway i've been tweaking some more, think i'm done for now.



Could get bit lower latency if motherboard would memory train rtl/iol like it should. Currently at 60/62 4/4, can't get 60/61, board won't post if i force anything into rtl/io.

 

[Woomack]

There are more factors which are affecting RTL/IOL. Usually it works like you have at this frequency. Other thing is that no one said it will work on your motherboard like that. Usually so tight timings are working only on prepared for that motherboards. Count that some models are designed for improved stability, some are designed for max clocks. Even those that are designed for highest OC usually are released for mass sales with BIOS which has something locked and prepared for full stability.

I have MSI Z370I Gaming Carbon so ITX mobo. It runs 24/7 stable at 4500 20-20-20. I was thinking I will be able to stabilize it at CL17/18 but I couldn't. I had some problems with tight timings at anything past 4000 so after a couple of tests I decided to set higher frequency as it was giving me a bit better results. I don't think you can set 4500+ on your motherboard but maybe check 4133/4266 CL17-17-17 what even at CR2 should give better results. But really CR is not affecting performance as much as on older platforms so I wouldn't worry about it unless you push it for competitive benching.

Believe me, most users who post results at tight 4000+ don't have their memory stable. Most are far from stability. It's because of a couple of factors. One of them is higher memory capacity allocation. Other can be interference at high frequency what is related to motherboard design. There is a reason why there are barely any memory kits in mass sales at 4266+ and barely any motherboards which are officially supporting that. The same most 4000+ kits at tight main timings ( subs are still relaxed ) are barely available or already not manufactured.

 

[askan7]

First of all, thanks for replying @Woomack
I can boot up to 4500mhz on this board, haven't tested for stability at those higher speeds though.

I've tried 4133c17 and it's stable at 1.42 (can probably get 1.4v by relaxing sub timmings), but i get bad trainning with rtl/iol at 70/70 12/14 which result in slithly higher bandwidh but worse latency, that's why i leave it at 4000c16. It doesn't seem to be the IMC either, i run 1.18vccio for 4000 and tried up to 1.25v and still get bad trainning at 4133 or up.

Spoiler

 

[Woomack]

Even though latency is a bit worse then I had better results in various benchmarks at higher frequency. It depends on many other settings too and used memory kit but at least on my memory, higher frequency was working better. Just check it out of synthetic benchmarks.

I'm not sure if it's my luck or something else but on my MSI board every single memory kit is working a bit weird at 4000+. I have Team Xtreem 4133 18-18-18 kit which can't even boot past 4266 regardless of timings. I was using exactly the same timings as on other kits that could pass 4400. TridentZ 4266 19-19-19 runs at 4500 20-20-20 stable for 2 months now ... 4533 can't even boot. The same kit could run in benchmarks at 4500 18-18-18 but isn't stable at CL18 even at 4266.
I wasn't really tightening RTL/IOL on MSI. I was only relaxing them for max clock which wasn't much higher than stable frequency. There are some results on my list of memory tests but I guess you won't find there anything interesting as most results are at standard sub-timings.

 

[askan7]

I guess for 4000+with tight timmings and RTLs you need a higher end board with 6 layer pcb, like the z370 apex.

Mid range board seem to work best up to 4000mhz, not only msi, asus is the same from what i've seen.

 

[Woomack]

MSI Z370I Gaming ITX is actually the one on which were all world records and the highest guaranteed memory frequency. I only don't get how on the Computex and in official G.Skill press releases, memory kits were working up to 5066+ while it can't really make more than 4500 on an official BIOS. G.Skill doesn't want to share, MSI too. It's the same as G.Skill was showing 4x8GB at 4600 on ASUS Hero and users around the forums can't stabilize 2x8GB 4133 kits on this board.
I got special OC BIOS for my board and it let me to set 100MHz more but it's still max boot on single stick up to 4700, not stable dual channel at 5000+. Also only on this BIOS I can stabilize 4500. I don't think that TridentZ 4266 C19 is much weaker than kits designed for 4500+. Actually Z370I has on the list DDR4-4600 kits which should work at XMP settings.
I was testing my board using 3 different processors. On all, memory was working the same so I don't think there is any IMC issue.

All that talking about memory makes me wonder if new BIOS is helping. There is one for 9th gen processors marked as beta so maybe includes some improvements from earlier betas. MSI added DDR4-4600 to the compatibility list and added 4600(OC) in motherboard's specification. I wasn't testing memory for maybe 2 months except standard tests. Not much time and some other things on my mind right now.

 

[askan7]

I'm using the newer bios for 9th gen, memory overclooking is the same for me. Also i'm not sure if those xmp are properly tested, they have hci memtest screenshoots at 200% on their website, that is not nearly enough to prove any kind of stability in my opinion. I've had hci memtest run for 300% and not find any errors, while on ramtest with the same settings i was getting errors within 15min.

Anyway this is at 4200c17, i've managed to lower RTLs using IOL compensation, but i don't know how can i lower the IOLs, any tips?

Spoiler

I need cl18 for 4266 and 4400 is not stable.

 

[Woomack]

It's hard to say. Every setup is a bit different. Even though all these memory kits are on Samsung B then results are not the same. I stuck at about the same settings on one of my kits but as I said, I wasn't really pushing it on TridentZ 4266. I still want to check Patriot Viper4 3733 as this kit was working really good on X299.