NEED HELP OVERCLOCKING SAMSUNG B-DIE (3200 CL14) ON MY NEW ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E

[DUAL33s]

((BACKGROUND INFO))

OK… So for the past 2 years, or so, I’ve been learning the ins and outs of overclocking RAM on Ryzen systems. At first I started on a Ryzen 1600 / x370 system but soon upgraded to a Ryzen 2600X and a B450 Tomahawk. I spent the majority of time learning ram overclocking on that particular B450 board and honestly, looking back, I can’t believe just how good that little board is for only $110 US.

Recently, I did a FULL system overhaul and upgraded to a Ryzen 3700 X, an Asus ROG Strix X570-E as well as a few other new components. My main reason for upgrading to these particular parts, was due to x570’s ‘better ram overclocking compatibility’, better power control, and overall better VRM design, among other things. Also, I just wanted a hassle-free motherboard that would instantly boot my new 3700 X without the need to flash the bios.

As soon as I set up my new system and got the basic software/drivers downloaded, I updated to the latest bios, and I began to experiment with Ryzen DRAM calculator. Now, I’ve been using the Dram calculator for a pretty long time (over a year), and I have grown pretty familiar with its different settings and how to properly configure them. Up until now, I’ve had VERY little trouble finding stable / error-free timings and voltages when using the dram calculator. Matter of fact, I only remember a few times that the Dram calc timings did not work on my 2600X/B450 tomahawk setup..and that was usually because I made a mistake when entering the timings in the bios.

((MY ISSUE))

Okay..so over the past few weeks I’ve been attempting to overclock my set of Flare X (Samsung b-die) 3200MHz / CL 14 ram. My original goal was to overclock it to (at least) 3600/CL 14. But TBH, I would even settle for 3600 CL 16 at this point. Or even 3466 CL14.

I’ve literally spent weeks on end working for a few hours each day attempting to successfully overclock this ram and it seems like no matter what I do, or how I can figure the DRAM calculator, or what manual changes I make in the bios settings, I just cannot get this ram to do 3600 MHz without either A) getting errors in memtest … Or B) not even getting my system to post at all.

As of writing this post, the best “overclock“ I am able to achieve it’s 3200 CL 14, with pretty tight sub-timings: 3200 (14-14-14-14-28-42-256)

I’m technically able to overclock a bit higher, to 3333 cl14, but with MUCH looser sub-timings (14-16-16-16-38-56-432) resulting in less performance than my 3200 C14 overclock.

My Flare X ram is rated to run at XMP: 3200 (14-14-14-14-34). So my minor “overclock“ barely affects anything performance-wise, other than a bit of latency reduction.

((QUESTIONS))

1) Am I missing something?? Seriously. Because it feels like I am. I have a good bit of experience OCing memory and I’ve heard basically nothing but good reviews as far as overclocking memory on my particular motherboard - the ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E. I’ve seen posts in overclocking forums of people OCing 3600 CL16 Samsung b-die memory all the way up to 4200MHz+!! Yet I am unable to push my set of b-die past 3200mhz?? Whyyyyyyyyyy??!!

2) I am pretty unfamiliar with the ASUS bios, as most (if not all) of my past motherboards have been MSI. I’ve noticed that ASUS includes 2 separate sections for “AMD overclocking“ and “AMD CBS” (AMD common bios settings?) I’ve also noticed that some of the voltage settings and other misc. settings that appear in the “main bios“ on the ‘AI Tweaker’ page, also appear throughout these 2 separate ‘AMD sections’..Including SOC voltage, VDDP voltage control, VDDG voltage control, and others.

So which section am I supposed to use when setting these various voltages? I’ve been using the voltage settings that appear on the main AI Tweaker page. Is that OK? Or should I be using the ones in the AMD overclocking section?

Ughhhh .. so confusing.

3) Within the ASUS bios, there are also multiple VDDP and VDDG settings. The bios includes: 'VDDG CCD Voltage' and 'VDDG IOD Voltage' settings. However, the DRAM calculator only provides cLDO VDDG and cLDO VDDP voltage recommendations. So, first of all, which DRAM Calculator recommendations should i use for the ASUS bios voltage settings, as they do not have the same "name" as the DRAM Calc. Also, what are these 'new' voltage settings for (VDDG CCD Voltage / VDDG IOD Voltage)? Ive never seen them while OCing on the b450 platform. I'm assuming they have something to do with the IF that runs to the CCD and the other IF that runs to the IOD? But i have no idea, as this is my first time OCing memory on an ASUS board, as well as my first time OCing on the X570 platform. Therefore many of these 'new' x570 settings are still mystery to me.

4) Lastly...to anyone who owns an ASUS X570 board.. or anyone who is familiar with the ASUS bios in general… do you have any tips for me as far as memory overclocking on an Asus motherboard? I honestly thought that this new x570 board would give me much better results when overclocking Samsung b-die. But it’s been about two weeks since I’ve upgraded my system, and as of right now I’m really questioning whether doing so was a good idea or not.

Like I said… I was getting excellent results overclocking my RAM on my crappy little b450 Tomahawk. If I can’t AT LEAST get equal results with the X570 board, then I basically wasted my $330 I spent on it… And that money could’ve gone towards me buying a freaking ROG STRIX 2080 Super instead of a Red Devil 5700 XT lol

So anyway...here are a few of the “fixes“ that I’ve tried:

-Ive tried multiple different VDDG/VDDP voltage settings, including ALL that were recommended by the DRAM Calc - (Min. Rec. & Max,).

-I’ve tried raising/lowering PROCODT resistance.

-I've tried setting SoC voltage to everything from 1.0250v to 1.1v.

-I’ve tried using various CadBus and Termination Die configurations… (Including all of the ones that were provided by the DRAM calculator).

-I’ve tried multiple different tFAW settings, including raising it and lowering it.

-I’ve tried raising tRRDS a bit..raising tRDWR from 6 to 9 and tWRRD to from 1 to 2, 3, 4 etc...

-I’ve tried MANY Different tRFC settings and with each new setting, I made sure to verify that I kept tRC as a multiple of tRFC. (I understand you are supposed to)

((CONCLUSION))

I’ve spent hours and hours tweaking and adjusting my sub-timings, voltages, LLC, etc. But NOTHING seems to work. It’s actually becoming rather disheartening as I think of all the cool **** that $330 could’ve gone towards instead of being spent on this ASUS motherboard lol For Christ’s sake, I could be rocking a STRIX 2080 SUPER ATM instead of my measly little red devil 5700 XT…

But I’m trying to remain positive, and not blame my issues on the motherboard. There’s just got to be something I’m missing. And I feel like it’s probably something minor that I’ve Somehow overlooked… Like maybe some new feature within the X570 bios or something like that..?

I highly doubt my issues are the result of a hardware problem, as my entire system is practically brand spanking new. Though I have considered that maybe my particular set of B-Die sticks just aren't capable of doing 3600 Cl14 for whatever reason...perhaps just bad binning...?

Anyway… If you made it this far then thank you very much for taking the time to read this incredibly long and over-explained post. I will post my full system specs below.

Thanks in advance for any tips/advice you may have for me.


System specs:

CPU: Ryzen 3700X
MOBO: ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E Gaming w/ the latest bios installed (1404)
RAM: FlareX 3200mhz (14-14-14-14-34) (1.35v)
GPU: Red Devil 5700XT
STORAGE: (1) Samsung M.2 nVME 500mb (1) Western Digital WD Blue SSD 1tb
PSU: Corsair Cx650 (650w / 80+ Bronze)

 

[DUAL33s]

NOTE: I'VE MADE A SEPARATE POST THAT INCLUDES SOME IMAGES FURTHER EXPLAINING MY QUESTIONS ABOUT VDDG / VDDP VOLTAGES AND HPW/WHERE THEY ARE LISTED ON THE DRAM CALCULATOR. PLEASE REFER TO THAT POST FOR MORE DETAILS. THANK YOU.

SECONDARY POST TITLE: "QUESTIONS CONCERNING VDDG/VDDP VOLTAGE AND OVERCLOCKING MEMORY ON ASUS X570-E"

 

[EarthDog]

NOTE: I'VE MADE A SEPARATE POST THAT INCLUDES SOME IMAGES FURTHER EXPLAINING MY QUESTIONS ABOUT VDDG / VDDP VOLTAGES AND HPW/WHERE THEY ARE LISTED ON THE DRAM CALCULATOR. PLEASE REFER TO THAT POST FOR MORE DETAILS. THANK YOU.

SECONDARY POST TITLE: "QUESTIONS CONCERNING VDDG/VDDP VOLTAGE AND OVERCLOCKING MEMORY ON ASUS X570-E"

I dont see it as of this post. That said, add it here. No need for two different threads covering the same overarching subject. You're going to need to know the info there to help you here (it's a detail of these qiestioms). It's best in one thread.

 

[DUAL33s]

Oh, sorry about that. The secondary post is a bit different than this one. It is more-so ONLY concerning VDDP/VDDG voltage within the ASUS X570-E bios in regards to the Ryzen DRAM Calculator. Is that okay? If not, then please tell me how to add images to a 'Reply', as I do not see the option to do so.

Thank you for your response, and please excuse my 'noobiness'...this is my first time posting on the Overclockers.com forum. :/

 

[EarthDog]

No worries all good. You may want to link that thread (copy and paste the link) in the post above so it's easier for those helping.

Looks like you're good on pictures in the other thread. Someone with better information that I have will be around to help I'm sure.

 

[DUAL33s]

IMAGES OF THE ASUS BIOS AND QUESTIONS CONCERNING VDDP/VDDG VOLTAGES

Here are a few images that go more in-depth as far as explaining my questions regarding VDDP/VDDG voltages in the ASUS bios and their relation to the 'recommendations' within the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

oops...lol...i didnt see this reply til it was too late and i already had figured out how to add images to a reply..lol do you think i should delete my other post now? since i managed to include the pics on this thread instead?

 

[EarthDog]

All good. I took care of the other thread.

 

[Woomack]

I will answer to some things of these long posts. I just love these posts with "what to set in DRAM calculator" or "DRAM calculator setting don't work". It's a tool like any other and it's not guaranteed it will work.

1. Samsung B doesn't automatically mean that memory will OC well, there are memory kits that can't even OC past 3800 at relaxed timings. However, if you have 3200 CL14 kit then it should at least work at 3600 CL16. If you want to set 3600 CL14 then memory will need ~1.5V. It can be less but not much and it depends on the IC quality.

2. Your motherboard is setting exactly the same VDDG/VDDP voltages (under auto) as you set manually. It just works this way. It's not a magical DRAM calculator setting. The same is on my ASUS board.
At 3600 you don't need to adjust any additional voltages. Your motherboard should handle everything at auto settings and the memory clock is so low that it works fine at everything auto/stock. Main timings at ~3600 depend mostly on the DIMM voltage, as in point 1.
OC profile on ASUS ROG mobos suggests up to 1.1V at 4200+ and tight timings.

3. OC in small steps as there are too many timings and not all work the same on various memory kits or motherboards. Profiles often don't work and the same DRAM calculator isn't perfect.
Set memory clock at 3600 and timings at 14-16-16 1.50V. Everything else at auto. If you make it run stable then check 14-15-15 at the same voltage. If you make it run stable then start to play with sub-timings.
Typically on Samsung B (if chips are good ), you can run memory at auto/SPD so 2133 and then you will see the whole table of sub-timings set at nearly the tightest it will work. It's a good way to compare what you have and what is possible to set. You can rewrite these timings as manual settings and start bumping memory clock. Typically it will work at 3200-3600, depends on the IC. The next step depends on you. Or you start to adjust each timing separately or you back to auto settings and start to drop one by one or in pairs (timings with L and R have to be adjusted in pairs).

4. On my setup, I'm able to set 3600 14-15-15 1.47V. Timings like 14-15-15-15-32 tRC 58, tFAW 38 (I don't remember exactly but both couldn't be too low or were stability issues), tRFC ~320/240/180, most other timings from SPD/2133 setting.

5. Some CPU+mobo setups (it's a matter of each CPU, not the model itself) don't work at a higher clock. I had a 3700X that didn't want to work at 3333+ on one motherboard and it was working up to 4800+ on another one. The same motherboard with a different CPU could run at 4800+. Motherboard vendors confirmed that weird behavior on some of their CPUs.

6. I don't know if you realize that but the difference between 3600 CL14 and CL16 is like 1% in synthetic benchmarks and nearly 0% in games and everything else. I don't know if the need for CL14 is caused by false info on the forums or just internal need of having the CL14. The second one I can even understand as I use totally pointless settings very often like DDR4-4800+ at relaxed settings what gives pretty much the same performance as DDR4-3600.

 

[DUAL33s]

Tips & Observations for Overclocking Samsung B-Die on the ROG STRIX X570-E...

(((BACKGROUND)))

So, I recently swapped out my old set of Flare X (3200 cl14) b-die sticks for some brand new TridentZ Neo (3600 Cl16)(model F4-3600C16D-16GTZN) sticks and I'm having MUCH better overclocking results with this new set. I'm currently running a Ryzen 3700X, on the Asus ROG STRIX X570-E Gaming motherboard (w/ bios 1404) and Ryzen High Performance Power Plan.

Since, it was actually a bit tricky to figure out a 100% stable/error-free configuration, I will share some of my findings as well as what I feel is the optimal setup for this particular set of b-die.


(((TIPS / OBSERVATIONS)))

- First and foremost...possibly the most important thing I've learned about using Ryzen DRAM Calc for OCing memory on this mobo (other than my issue with VDDP/VDDG which I will cover a bit later in this post) is that for some reason if you import your Thaiphoon Burner report into the Ryzen DRAM Calculator, and configure it that way, it will give you timings that are COMPLETELY screwed up and will not work no matter how much you tweak them. I'm not sure if it's due to the X570 platform still being relatively new, and therefore the DRAM Calc still needs some adjusting? Or if maybe somehow i'm messing up the process somehow (which not likely, as Ive been successfully using the DRAM Calc for over a year now and have never encountered this problem on B450).

But either way, I have not been able to get ANY of these 'import-based' calculations/recommendations to work. So, if you are having trouble getting good results with the DRAM Calc, I'd recommend not importing your Thaiphoon report, and instead manually entering your info.

(NOTE: If anyone else has encountered this problem, please tell me in the replies section. I'm interested to know if this has happened to anyone else, or if it's just me..lol)

- Next, for some reason I cannot get these sticks to run correctly when setting the ProcODT to anything lower than 36.9. The Ryzen DRAM Calculator recommends 34.3 ProcODT on all of the different configurations I've calculated. But I am lucky if I can even get my system to post, let alone run stable with that setting. 36.9 is just one setting higher and seems to be completely stable (AIDA64 Stability Test/30 - 45+ mins) with most configurations and the difference performance-wise between 36.9 and 34.3 is so minimal, that I doubt anyone could tell the difference during daily usage.

Even the benchmarks do not change much (if at all) and 36.9 actually produces higher scores in some situations. I've also discovered that with my particular setup (3700X/X570-E Gaming) that whenever I encounter a BSOD or a "no post" scenario, 9.5 out of 10 times, it was due to my ProcODT being set to low. As soon as I bump it up 1 level, the system will typically post and run correctly. Keep in mind that these findings ONLY pertain to my exact setup and therefore I cannot say whether they apply to ALL motherboards and setups. But with my setup I can almost guarantee that ProcODT is the culprit of any and all BSOD's or hard crashes/freezes are involved. Also if you run memtest and get a crap load of errors...im talking at least 10 or 20+. check your ProcODT setting, as it has also caused this on my system.

- Moving right along... I did a bit of experimenting between 3600mhz w/ safe and/or slightly tightened timings -vs- 3200Mhz w/ SUPER TIGHT timings. These results were a bit mixed at times, but overall, I found it better performance-wise (and latency-wise) to run the higher freq. and slightly looser timings. My conclusion as far as this matter is that when you bump up the DRAM freq. you are also able to boost the infinity fabric freq. higher. So I'm guessing maybe this results in your system (mainly you CPU) being able to move data around faster, seeing as most data will 'travel' over the IF at some point. Now, I'm not 100% sure if this is completely true, as the jump in performance/latency could just be a result of the higher DRAM freq alone. But whatever...it's fun to speculate and I'm bored AF ATM lol

So anyway...moving right along...

Here are some of my other findings:

-SoC at 1.1v is almost always the best setting when setting the RAM clock to 3600mhz+. Once you lower the RAM freq. to approx. 3200mhz or lower, 1.050 seems to work well and it also creates less heat than a 1.1 setting would do. However, I would have to do further testing to see if there is a difference in performance when lowering the SoC voltage. I know from experience that when you undervolt Ryzen 3000, you will actually tend to sacrifice some performance. The only time undervolting would help boost performance, is if you are VERY temperature limited… (i.e. If you are experiencing temperatures in the 90°C to 95°C+ region.) and your chip is thermal throttling. Otherwise, leaving CPU voltage (VCore) set to 'auto' or setting a manual OC tends to be best. Whether that also applies to SoC, Im not sure. I'll look into it eventually...

-Higher freq. helps to lower latency (as mentioned above). The higher you can clock your memory, the lower your latency will be (as long as your timings are reasonable and not incredibly loose). For example, I figured that running 3200mhz (14-13-13-13-28-42-252) would create lower latency than 3600mhz (16-16-16-16-32-48-345) due to the MUCH tighter sub-timings. But as far as I can tell, DRAM Freq. trumps timings as far as latency goes.

-As far as CAD_BUS Block settings, the only 2 configurations that worked well with my setup are either 24-20-20-24 (first choice) or if that was too low, then I would run 24-24-24-24 (almost as good). But I havent had many issues with these settings and would generally recommend using the DRAM Calc. settings.

-Another very important thing I've learned, is that if you are running this combination of CPU, MOBO and RAM (see full setup below) or possibly any of the (ASUS X570 mobos, as many of them have the same basic VRM) you should probably NEVER mess around with ANY of the secondary voltages, such as VDDG, VDDP, etc. Ever since I built my new setup, a few weeks ago, I've been struggling to get my RAM to OC correctly. I had been OCing memory on my 2600X/B450 Tomahawk for so long, that I just figured you needed to follow the same steps for OCing Ryzen 3000 on x570.

Apparently this is not the case.

With Ryzen 2000/B450, I literally HAD to adjust the VDDP/VDDG properly in order for the memory to overclock correctly. Guess I carried that mentality over to my new setup and therefore I've been screwing around with VDDP/VDDG for weeks (literally) trying to get a stable overclock. I've heard numerous sources/guides claim that setting the VDDP/VDDG voltage manually was absolutely necessary in order to ensure a proper overclock. Well....apparently that is NOT the case. At least with my setup...

So, anyway... about a day or two ago, after much research and listening to recommendations from other overclockers, I finally decided to try running my ram OC with ALL the secondary voltages set to [AUTO]. That goes for ANYTHINGother than DRAM Voltage and SoC voltage. I wasn't very confident that this would work, and tbh I was a bit concerned that I may actually damage my system, as Im not very familiar with how these voltages work on on X570.

Long story short (or long lol)...IT WORKED!! Leaving all the 'secondary' voltages set to 'Auto' was the key to me FINALLY being able to achieve my first stable memory overclock on my new system. I have written numerous posts (in this forum and others) seeking help to understanding how these voltages work and what the best settings were...but all along I just needed to stop tweaking them like a maniac, and let them be.

(((CONCLUSION)))

I guess that's about all I have to say right now as far as this topic goes. The last bit of advice I would give is that you shouldn't always necessarily follow the DRAM Calculator reccomedations to a 'T'. This seems to be especially true for X570 boards and 100% true for the ROG STRIX X570-E.

So anyway... thank you to anyone who offered me help with this matter. My memory is now running GREAT and I'm having a blast tweaking it (like a true nerd lol). I'll include a couple of my best benchmark results below (3600mhz 14-15-15-15-30-48-288). But I'll also do a more in-depth look at memory overclocking on the X570-E some time in the future.

Thanks again!

-DUAL33s

SYSTEM SPECS:
Ryzen 5 3700X | Asus ROG STRIX X570-E Gaming | Trident Z Neo (3600 C16) (F4-3600C16D-16GTZN) | PowerColor Red Devil 5700 XT | Samsung 970 Evo NVME M.2 (500gb) | WD Blue SSD (1tb) | Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB | Corsair CX650M | Acer KG271 27" 144hz

(BENCHMARK RESULTS) (3600Mhz) (14-15-15-15-30-48-288)

 

[PolRoger]

@DUAL33s

I find for Ryzen 3000 series and Samsung B-Die kits that running (3600 16-16-16-X) memory speed and fabric clock both @1800Mhz is a sweet spot. It is fairly easy to dial in with stability also while using lower voltages. I do like to tighten up some of the secondary timings from default XMP/auto settings. Here is my 3900X at 8-cores (four cores disabled) with PBO disabled... Running per CCX overclock: 43x/42.75x/42.25x/42x @ ~1.275v Vcore in BIOS.

Edit: Sorry about the screenshot being a little small hard to read...

 

[Dr. McCoy]

No, I don't believe it's you.

I have the same sticks and they do about the same for me.
Anything beyond 3200 and they act up if I'm not pumping voltage to them, I've yet to see them hit 3600 reliably no matter what I do with them. I don't believe these sticks are made with the "Good" B-die IC's, probrably mid-grade IC's at best. I will admit I've yet to try them in a few scenarios and will do so before too long to be sure but as things stand now I'm having to settle for 3000 and be done with it.

I've tried them with my daily and benching setups and get the same from both with these in use, the 3600x setup with my other sticks has topped 4000 with ease before running another set (Trident Z's) so I already know the chip's IMC is good (Enough): https://hwbot.org/submission/4285521_

Will try again later.

 

[Woomack]

I guess it also depends on the IMC and the used motherboard. On Ryzen 3000 for some reason, I can't run at anything tighter than 3600 14 regardless of voltage and max stable is 3600 14-16-16 at ~1.45V (up to 1.6V there is no big change). This is on kits that can make 4000+ CL12 for benching.

My best Samsung B kits were 3200 CL14-14-14 Royal (which I still have), 3200 CL14 TridentZ black/white, 3600 CL15-15-15 classic red/black from a sale that I found 2 months ago and one 3600 CL16-16-16 from older batches. These kits were/are better than any 3866+ Samsung B that I had. Some Samsung B are really bad, some don't like tight timings, some need high voltages. Some users just can't understand that and are blindly buying everything marked as Samsung B just because others say on the forums that this IC is the best. Right now the best Samsung B is only in the most expensive kits. Sometimes the price difference between used IC is up to +100%.

Every single Ryzen 3000 that I had ( 9 or 10 chips ) could make DDR4-4800 stable but on Samsung, it wasn't stable much past 4400. New Micron or Hynix is easier to stabilize and easier to overclock at a higher frequency. It's pretty pointless above some clock but it's much easier. I guess that the next generation will be able to use Micron/Hynix much better but hard to say what time will bring.

My Samsung kit that made 5266+ on Intel couldn't even pass 4800 on Ryzen. With the same CPU, I could make 5000+ using Micron and Hynix. Also, my only chip that could make 5000 on Ryzen is 3900X. Every 6/8 core chip was hitting a wall at ~4800-4866. Looks like there is also IMC binning in these chips as about the same I see on the web. Most if not all 5000+ results on Ryzen 3000 were made on 3900X.