W/C Noob, first setup questions

[Black Wyvern]

Right, well as much as I'd hate to say it. I'm a noob... When it comes to water cooling.

That much being said though, I am in pursuit of my first WC box, and I just have so many questions still.. I've been plotting things out for the last few weeks, reading guides, comparing stats, reading reviews, but I'm really no closer to anything then when I started.

My setup is going to be as follows:

Antec 1200
- Asus Rampage III Ex-1366
- Intel Core i7 965 [Currently at stock speeds]
- EVGA 470 GTX Hydro FTW
- 6-24GB DDR3
- 2x 500GB WD HD's
- 1kW PSU [Pretty Generic]

I'm currently looking to W/C the CPU, the VCard, the RAM and the HD's, though I am not entirely against cooling the mobo as well given they have a single assembly for it now. Still seems like a sin to take off that sexy sink assembly though..

That comes the loop configuration, with as many parts as I'm going to be cooling, (And hopefully setting up for a later possible OC'ing) would a multi-parallel circuit be better suited, or a single, massive series line?

Forgive me for my lack of poorly drawn examples of loops, but what I was thinking was as such:

Tank -[1/2"]-> Pump -> 3-Way Splitter -[5/8"]-> (Pressure Valves) -> [(Mainboard)+CPU | GCard | RAM+HD] -> (Flow Meters) -> Combiner -[1/2"]-> 2-Way Splitter -[5/8"]-> Radiators -> Combiner -[1\2"]-> Tank

Albeit complex, a friend of mine who works with W/Cing occasionally said properly hooked up, and thoroughly leak-tested, this setup would theoretically be viable. One can't believe everything one hears however.

My dilemmas come in here though. After reading countless reviews and comparisons about the different radiators and setups, I still can't decide how many, what brand, what flowrate, and which configuration to go with. The cooling blocks and pump selection have me boggled down as well, but those are abit simpler to sort though.

My initial thought were a pair of 120.3 or 120.4 LF Koolances externally mounted to the case; but after my researching, I'm really just at a total loss. The KL's still look pretty good, but Thermochill PA120.3 .4's tend to strike more of an 'Epic' note from most of the sites I've referenced, but don't give flow optimization selections. And the MORA.9 Grid is just stupidly overpowered, by looking at temp delta charts..

I'm somewhat picky about noise levels, though I don't mind a bit of a hum, as I never take off my headsets except when I'm AFK. I still think this summarily disqualifies an array of Deltas though.

But yeah. This is where I sit. Please feel free to poke and pull at any part of the build, I'm in pretty desperate need of advice. XD;

 

[Grosjambon]

First, to ocforums.
Second, In watercooling, cooling ram - mobo or HDD is USELESS, Its restrict flow.
The only benefit of its, its look **cool**.
With that said, Cooling Cpu + Gpu is enough. buy an aircooler for ram and put a 120mm cooling your HDD, they won't get that hot.
http://skinneelabs.com/ here is the best site for radiator/pump/cpu block info, comparaison and etc. you can find anything.
3.Your heatload, maybe 350-400 w under load + cpu at 4ghz.
4. U can run dual loop or single loop.
Single loop if u dont plan to add a second card to the loop.
Dual Loop if u plan to add sli/tri sli to your rig.
Your cpu need a 120.3 your GPU 120.2 this is 120.5 required for a SINGLE loop.
So, 2 triple will do the work, now what u want? silence computer - Silence and power - Or just want supra low temps with high speed fan.
When U decide which one. tell us.

 

[Black Wyvern]

Well, going from assumptions of your post then, it'd be sexier to just air cool the mobo. The HD racks, as far as I know already have inbuilt 120mm fans in the case, so dropping them out should be fine. The ram coolers though, that's something I'm going to have to look into later.

I also have done quite a deal of research on skinnee already, part of the reason my head hurts. All the data regarding pressure drops, Delta T's, flow restrictions and dissipation under different speeds and loads. It's a bit much to take in.

Ideally though, I'm just shooting for something that runs cold. Silence would be a huge bonus, but with the temps I'm getting with stock cooling on this crappy case and board I'm on [BTX with about as much airflow as a sack of potatoes] I'm seriously concerned about the lifespan of the CPU. [Even with side pannel off and a room fan pointed at it, the chipset ambient readout is sitting at 66°, components higher under load.]

As an edit, I'm 99.9% reasonably sure my room isn't sitting at 150.8F, but it's still a ridiculous number to be getting from an Ambient sensor, especially when the core temps on everything else confirm it by running higher.

Also, I am considering adding in another GTX470 later on, so I would like the scalability later on.

 

[Higdon]

I own an Antec 1200. As long as you do not try to mount 120.3 or higher in the case you should be fine. That is all I can add. Have fun!

 

[Black Wyvern]

Mmn, this I figured from the internal shots. I was going to mount them externally on the solid side of the case. Measuring out the required screw positions and bolting them down and whatnot.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

ditch the ram and hdd cooling as it's a waste of money with no gains performance wise, and having the hdd's to cold can hurt them.

splitting the loop is not a good idea either, you need to get the resistance of each run the same or else one run will get more flow.

also i'm guessing your thinking that when the water hits the block at say 20C it leaves at 40C. this is not the case, it maybe changes to 21C. therefore series is the best, easiest option. as well where you place things in the loop (loop order) doesn't matter. just put the res before the pump so it's always got water going to it.

for your loop, low temps and silence will be an option with 2x 120.3's.

check out these guides if you haven't read them yet.

http://overclockerstech.com/index.p...s&catid=40:overclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=88

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/253958-29-watercooling-guide

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631501 - though i personally take my blocks apart to inspect for anything.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=643364

they should give you a good idea of what the common good brand names are.

 

[Black Wyvern]

I've seen the latter three links, but the first link, along with your post actually cleaned up quite a bit of confusion.

It's pretty official that the RAM and HDD cooling is off the loop.

I found an alternative to the full motherboard board cooling bars that are out there with the Swiftech Asus Fusion Waterblock replacement. Benchmarks on it seem to place it inline with the full replacements, as it still uses the origional full airsink covering NB SB and Mofset from what I've been able to gather.

Also seems that distilled water is still really the definitive way to go, so looks like 1/2" red tubing with black support helix is going to be the mainline tube choice, as UV options are limited.

I'm most likely going to go with Barbs and self-tightening clips, unless there's some sort of astonishingly better alternative I'm missing here.

The only remaining issues I think I'm having then are CPU sink, radiator configuration and brands (Series vs Parallel), pumps and trying to figure out how to mount a pair of 120.4 rads to the side of my case. XD (Decided I might as well get 480's as I'll eventually be adding in another Gcard and hopefully OC'ing the CPU.)

I'm kinda leaning towards the Koolance CPU360 1.1 CPU block, and a pair of Thermochill PA120.4's with Coolermaster fans on both sides prolly mounted on with a pair of Koolance QC adjustable 120mm radiator mount each. As for a pump, I guess I'll go with the KL PMP-400 / ST MCP355 (Seem to be just re-labeled of each other) either as a single or a double mount in series as needed.

 

[Higdon]

Hey! Stop picking Spawn-Inc's brain, I was there first. Kids these days...no respect. I am eager to see pics of your build in progress and completed, but just remember "Measure twice, cut once." With so many parts you really need to pay attention so you get everything right.

 

[Black Wyvern]

XD Yeah, definitely going to be taking shots of the build in progress. I'm well familiar with the cutting theory though, and I'm definitely going to putting on some slack.

I appreciate all the help so far though, it's gone great lengths in assisting with this build. Just as long as I can get confirmation of these last few parts, I can start the ordering process. I'll have to start a progress thread once stuff starts shipping in.

 

[Conumdrum]

The only remaining issues I think I'm having then are CPU sink, radiator configuration and brands (Series vs Parallel), pumps and trying to figure out how to mount a pair of 120.4 rads to the side of my case. XD (Decided I might as well get 480's as I'll eventually be adding in another Gcard and hopefully OC'ing the CPU.)

I'm kinda leaning towards the Koolance CPU360 1.1 CPU block, and a pair of Thermochill PA120.4's with Coolermaster fans on both sides prolly mounted on with a pair of Koolance QC adjustable 120mm radiator mount each. As for a pump, I guess I'll go with the KL PMP-400 / ST MCP355 (Seem to be just re-labeled of each other) either as a single or a double mount in series as needed.

Thought I'd help with the last bits for your build.

The 360 is a fine choice for the CPU block. I got two 470's going under water here next week (got rid of my GTX280's). I chose the Koolance 470 blocks.

Over at XS Skinnee is working on a massive 480 full cover block test. You should take a read. I have read at two places where reputable folks used the Koolance 470 blocks and temps were good. I hope Skinnee (The BEST tester) finds nothing fundamentally wrong with my blocks even tho he's doing the 480's.

Anyhoo, I'll let you know next week how it went on my blocks.

Your looking at a 120.3 times two for a CPU and GPU right now. Good, your temps will be fine. IF you do go SLI like I am (amazing performance increase) you'll need to split the loops. The two cards make so much heat they will impact your CPU temps. So you'll need to get another pump and res to split the loop. Plan for it in your external and internal design.

On to the pump:

That pump is native 3/8" output. If you want to use thicker hose 9I recommend it) you'll need a new pump top that accepts larger barbs on it. I use the XSPC restop for each of my pumps and use 1/2 barbs for 1/2" ID tubing. Nice compact package. There are other choices.

Skinnee and Martin come through again.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/DDC32PumpTopTesting.html

There is also a very nice dual res/dual pump bay setup. Each pump/res spot is seperate. Might be a good plan if you go SLI 470. Bay res filling is a bit of a pain due to the hard to get to fillports, but it's nice.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/dubayreforla.html


Lastly, you'll probably want a fan controller. think about that. having one knob to controll all 3 fans on a rad is nice. My controller has one knob for one rad, another ditto, one know for two mobo fans, and another for the HD fans.

 

[Black Wyvern]

Yeah. The pump tops were definitely something I seem to've overlooked. Thanks there. I'll prolly end up going with dual single XSPC acetal tops, since I'm going to be gunning for an external fill port somewhere in the loop, two now since I'll need the scalability.

I was definitely going to start thinking about a fan controller, but I'm pretty clueless about those. Does it have to be something complex, or could I just say, y-join each cluster of rad fans into a single three-wire and plug the barb to the controller? It's more research I'll have to do today.

Though, everything is coming together along quite nicely so far otherwise. Just this Memorial Day thing is making my shipping times excruciating. X.x

 

[Conumdrum]

They make a connector to connect 3 fans into one. Look at all the stores. Performance PCs, while pricy has a lot of stuff. You only need ONE yellow wire for all 3 fans, so you have to cut the yellows or remove a pin etc. The controller needs just one yellow for the same type fans.

I used a soldering iron, heatshrink etc and did it right on the fan wires when they were mounted on the rad. Makes for a very nice clean install. But I'm an electronic tech. It's not hard tho.

Lamptron FC5 with the updated LCD panel would be a good controller, I got the FC6, only 20 watts per channel. Will be installed next week.

You still need resiviours, where are they in your plan?

 

[Black Wyvern]

Funny, I was just looking at the FC5 on performance PC. XD Awesome reviews, and nice features. Definitely a buy.

Also, yes, I have two reservoirs planned in the loop, so no worries about those.

 

[Conumdrum]

The FC5 is shipping with a better LCD panel. make sure you get one thats updated.